13 minutes ago, DrakonLord said:

Stronghold.... so im going to have to being a full 134 points of snipe squadrons then since i cant get close? Not happy about it but oh well if i must. At least with snipe ( and probably a intel) i dont have to face too much retribution every round.

Overall i dont know what to think about this new wave. Yay for new stuff and f*** now the rebellion has lost the only thing keeping it together (in both canon and game) which are their amazing uniques?

So be it. Looks like im changing factions till wave 7 lmao

Stronghold dont care about Snipe.... still counts if the squadron is defending at 1-2. The issue of course, being taht they can't have ALL the titles at once, so just apply the necessary solution at the right time.

I mean it's the same situation as Gallant Haven for Stronghold, really. Do your best to get the enemy squadrons to leave the safety of their bunker if they want to be effective. Don't send your squadrons running straight at the fortified bunker unless you're really sure that's a good idea. If you're running bombers, then use bombers on ships outside the Stronghold safety bubble and use your ships against the Stronghold itself.

I don't see why anyone thinks these new items will put a dent into Rieekan Aces. Nothing hinders the worst part of it, absorbing infinite AS damage on a zombie escort. Nothing will change. Rieekan Reb Aces will still mow through Empire squads.

Sure, the red AS on the Quasar will help a tiny bit, but it will explode fast when it gets to long range if reb bombers.

12 minutes ago, Thraug said:

I don't see why anyone thinks these new items will put a dent into Rieekan Aces. Nothing hinders the worst part of it, absorbing infinite AS damage on a zombie escort. Nothing will change. Rieekan Reb Aces will still mow through Empire squads.

Sure, the red AS on the Quasar will help a tiny bit, but it will explode fast when it gets to long range if reb bombers.

Why aren't you throwing 6 TIEs at the Rebel fighters though and just blowing through defense tokens with Sloan with them?

I think we're all glazing over what the real problem with the article was:
How did that Quasar with the Grand Inquisitor NOT die to a double arcing MC80???

13 minutes ago, Card Knight said:

I think we're all glazing over what the real problem with the article was:
How did that Quasar with the Grand Inquisitor NOT die to a double arcing MC80???

6 hours ago, Green Knight said:

It's still a 12-point upgrade...not sweet IMO.

It can be when your opponent forgets and comes into blue dice range of your side arcs....thinking he was all awesome for getting out of your front arc!

2 hours ago, JJs Juggernaut said:

Sorry, but you are dead wrong on this one. I don't have my rulers atm, but using Vassal, I was able to measure these ranges out.

Yes, yes I am wrong. My bad.

1 hour ago, Thraug said:

I don't see why anyone thinks these new items will put a dent into Rieekan Aces. Nothing hinders the worst part of it, absorbing infinite AS damage on a zombie escort. Nothing will change. Rieekan Reb Aces will still mow through Empire squads.

Sure, the red AS on the Quasar will help a tiny bit, but it will explode fast when it gets to long range if reb bombers.

I'm STILL bringing my fletchette torpedo Raider1 to the party....

1 hour ago, Thraug said:

I don't see why anyone thinks these new items will put a dent into Rieekan Aces. Nothing hinders the worst part of it, absorbing infinite AS damage on a zombie escort. Nothing will change. Rieekan Reb Aces will still mow through Empire squads.

Sure, the red AS on the Quasar will help a tiny bit, but it will explode fast when it gets to long range if reb bombers.

Sloane lets me re-roll my dud critical hit results for a better result, and turns accuracies into exhausting selected defense tokens.

And, according to what I read of the RRG... "Spending" can include hitting a red token to discard it. So if I open fire on Shara with Saber squadron and hit her twice with (Jendon and) accuracies, I've destroyed her scatter.

You'd still need intel to get away from enemy squadrons, that hasn't changed. But Sloane allows fighters to start harming aces particularly by targeting and spending those defense tokens, possibly removing them and stopping them from locking you down that way. And stronhold means any fighter shooting into that bubble has to subtract a die- meaning things like Y-Wings throw only one die against a TIE, and X-Wings need a perfect roll (or flight controllers) to kill a generic TIE Fighter.

This is kind of like Cienna or Jamming fields for all friendly ships... but only for those TIEs. They aren't affected by the Stronghold jamming barrier when they decide to shoot at enemy squadrons. Counter is unaffected as well, though an A-Wings' counter when responding to a fighter attack is.

Really the only downside to this situation is how vulnerable the Quasar is. It could be after we've played it for a while that it's found Stronghold isn't good enough when big capital ships come in and throw a big battery down on the QF.

6 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

Sloane lets me re-roll my dud critical hit results for a better result, and turns accuracies into exhausting selected defense tokens.

And, according to what I read of the RRG... "Spending" can include hitting a red token to discard it. So if I open fire on Shara with Saber squadron and hit her twice with (Jendon and) accuracies, I've destroyed her scatter.

You'd still need intel to get away from enemy squadrons, that hasn't changed. But Sloane allows fighters to start harming aces particularly by targeting and spending those defense tokens, possibly removing them and stopping them from locking you down that way. And stronhold means any fighter shooting into that bubble has to subtract a die- meaning things like Y-Wings throw only one die against a TIE, and X-Wings need a perfect roll (or flight controllers) to kill a generic TIE Fighter.

This is kind of like Cienna or Jamming fields for all friendly ships... but only for those TIEs. They aren't affected by the Stronghold jamming barrier when they decide to shoot at enemy squadrons. Counter is unaffected as well, though an A-Wings' counter when responding to a fighter attack is.

Really the only downside to this situation is how vulnerable the Quasar is. It could be after we've played it for a while that it's found Stronghold isn't good enough when big capital ships come in and throw a big battery down on the QF.

I'm still trying to figure out what the chances of killing Biggs/Wedge are, for various configurations. My instinct is that fighting Rieekan demands different tactics than conventional anti-squad, but until I can figure out the maths, I can't really answer for if my ideas will work on the table. More on this soon.

1 hour ago, geek19 said:

Why aren't you throwing 6 TIEs at the Rebel fighters though and just blowing through defense tokens with Sloan with them?

Because, as he noted, the defense tokens aren't the defensive brick that players can't chew through?

The core ability of Rieekan Aces is putting an immortal Escort squadron anywhere you could possibly want to place your squadrons, which means that you can't actually attack more than 1-2 squadrons at a time. If it were just an issue of defensive tokens, there are plenty of proven ways to bypass them especially by Imperials but also by Rebels.

The issue is that the brick of Rieekan Aces immediately retaliates against your entire force while you were forced to focus on 1-2 squads specifically set up to be sacrifices.

Its a bit more expensive that I thought. Flight controller slot aside, 2 flotillas are cheaper and give you a lot more options. This thing is like the VSD - a bit fat target.

Visions of Stronghold + Jamming fields and a Tie ball... Could be fun

Ok, everyone is so excited about the Quasar, but let's look at its less desirable attributes to avoid overhyping.

- Its armament is equal of a CR90's, which is decent but not that great. Especially if you look at the firing arcs, that front arc is so massive it will be difficult to doublearc anything.

- Its shielding is also the same.

- Its Engineering value is 2 meaning that it can discard damage cards only with a dial+token.

- It has only 2 defense tokens. That is as much as you get for a fighters, except that instead of a double brace or a scatter you get a redirect.

I think if there is such thing that a glass cannon, then the Quasar is the glass cannoneer of the Empire. Sure it's awesome while it's alive and can activate its squadrons as planned. But with only one or two salvos those shields will melt away and those 6 hulls aren't that much... Doublearching may be a death to this ship. On the other hand it is VERY unlikely that you could one-shot it, you need CF and preferably some other cards as well.

23 minutes ago, Norell said:

- It has only 2 defense tokens. That is as much as you get for a fighters, except that instead of a double brace or a scatter you get a redirect.

This right here is why in my opinion this ship is not worth 51-70 points. No ECM and only two tokens means that this ship dies really fast.

Ackbar+TRC is still a thing.

Heaven forbid that you run into an opponent who is running XI7. Then the Quasar effectively only has one defense token.

2 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

Because, as he noted, the defense tokens aren't the defensive brick that players can't chew through?

The core ability of Rieekan Aces is putting an immortal Escort squadron anywhere you could possibly want to place your squadrons, which means that you can't actually attack more than 1-2 squadrons at a time. If it were just an issue of defensive tokens, there are plenty of proven ways to bypass them especially by Imperials but also by Rebels.

The issue is that the brick of Rieekan Aces immediately retaliates against your entire force while you were forced to focus on 1-2 squads specifically set up to be sacrifices.

This is also another HUGE problem with Imperial Fighters.

Honestly the Quasar could have a fighter command of 12 and you would still eventually have to shoot at zombie escorts meaning that you fighters are doing nothing while waiting to be attacked.

7 hours ago, svelok said:

(the first unique upgrade card that's not a title or officer, right?)

Experimental retrofit, fleet commands.

7 hours ago, geek19 said:

I mean, if we're playing crazy list shenanigans that everything works like I want it to, my Demolisher then comes in and shoots your other ships and thanks to lucky crits and great dice rolling on my part it blows up both your ships and I actually win.

I'm done playing Thought Arrmada. Bring it if you want or don't, I don't care, but don't say it's a bad ship if you've never played it.

Why Demo?

I will play a ramming flotilla and I will win cause I am Ben.

1 hour ago, jpersons73 said:

Visions of Stronghold + Jamming fields and a Tie ball... Could be fun

I need a little more information what you are trying to say.

Stronghold and Jamming Field do not stack (obstructed is obstructed, there is no "more obstructed"). So why do you want to dismember your Tie Fighters with the jamming field?

Just now, Tokra said:

I need a little more information what you are trying to say.

Stronghold and Jamming Field do not stack (obstructed is obstructed, there is no "more obstructed"). So why do you want to dismember your Tie Fighters with the jamming field?

you can extend the field out with the two of them

54 minutes ago, jpersons73 said:

you can extend the field out with the two of them

Not sure its worth it. I mean, JF works vs your own attacks as well, but Stronghold just plain hurts your opponent.

3 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

Because, as he noted, the defense tokens aren't the defensive brick that players can't chew through?

The core ability of Rieekan Aces is putting an immortal Escort squadron anywhere you could possibly want to place your squadrons, which means that you can't actually attack more than 1-2 squadrons at a time. If it were just an issue of defensive tokens, there are plenty of proven ways to bypass them especially by Imperials but also by Rebels.

The issue is that the brick of Rieekan Aces immediately retaliates against your entire force while you were forced to focus on 1-2 squads specifically set up to be sacrifices.

You combine Raider I with Flechette Torps and your Ties, the enemy can't activate, you strip em of Def Tokens, kill the 2 escorts, finish them off next round.
Which has the added benefit of keeping your Quasar from being annihilated as well, it's a combo that only has to work for one round.

2 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

You combine Raider I with Flechette Torps and your Ties, the enemy can't activate, you strip em of Def Tokens, kill the 2 escorts, finish them off next round.

You haven't played against this list before, have you?

That said, it's a little concerning that we're bringing up list construction about the World's winner. I'm just going to say that anyone who responds with a flat "just throw X at them" is typically not speaking from experience.

3 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

You haven't played against this list before, have you?

I played against it in wave 2 tournaments, and plenty of times since then.

If the Rebel has all his squads that close Escorts are your only legal targets, then they are all perfect for a Flechette barrage, if your opponent doesn't want to risk one AA shot shutting his entire ball down, then they aren't all sat inside Escort bubbles, either way is a win.

Squall, 2-3 arquitens, a pair of lambdas and squadrons. 1 Gozanti.

MW, FL and SN

Let's play the objective game!

I should do the numbers better but as a first view I think it is possible.