wow. they get Shield Wall. If only there were another place to get Shield Wall.

16 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I think the point with the convincing is more to speak to the other folks who are lurking and maybe not participating. A new person first coming here for information on this might get the wrong idea if no one bothered to set the trolls straight.

This is exactly it. I don't care what he thinks, I care about him flat out lying in an open forum where it could turn other players away. Being mistaken or having an opinion is one thing, continuing to complain when the proof is right in front of you is something else.

17 hours ago, Embir82 said:

They specifically say that other armies can use those upgrades - and why? My safe bet is because they want people collecting other armies to buy this box.

It's certainly a bet, but not a safe one. I mean, yeah, they'd love for everyone in the world to buy multiples of every expansion, but they know that's not reality. That's why all the neutral upgrades in the Oathsworn Cavalry pack will eventually be in other factions' expansions as well.

There are five cards in the pack:

• Flank Guards
• Heraldic Surcoats
• Shield Wall (also available in the Core Set and the Waiqar Infantry Command expansion
• Moment of Inspiration (also available in the Latari Elves Army expansion)
• Dispatch Runner (also available in the Reanimates expansion)

So far, the majority are available in non-Daqan expansions. And that's just based off of spoiled cards in official FFG articles. I'm sure the others are in packs for other factions that just haven't had their full details released yet.

FFG is having their cake and eating it too.

If you want the upgrade card NOW, you need to buy out of faction. If you can wait 3-9 months, then eventually it will be available in faction and then you still pay out the moneys.

Truth, FFG wants people to think the game is accessible and you need to buy only one faction to get people hooked. Truth, FFG wants you to buy more than one faction, hence the practice. Truth, this is a miniature game, it is not for the poor or those that enjoy having two kidneys.

What is happening here is very clear. There is no controversy or need to troll people for being upset that this will, over time, be a very pricey game, no matter how they go about it. Be honest and upfront with people so they know what they are getting into. This game will cost 100s and if they are not careful, 1000s of dollars over time.

3 minutes ago, Mep said:

FFG is having their cake and eating it too.

If you want the upgrade card NOW, you need to buy out of faction. If you can wait 3-9 months, then eventually it will be available in faction and then you still pay out the moneys.

Truth, FFG wants people to think the game is accessible and you need to buy only one faction to get people hooked. Truth, FFG wants you to buy more than one faction, hence the practice. Truth, this is a miniature game, it is not for the poor or those that enjoy having two kidneys.

What is happening here is very clear. There is no controversy or need to troll people for being upset that this will, over time, be a very pricey game, no matter how they go about it. Be honest and upfront with people so they know what they are getting into. This game will cost 100s and if they are not careful, 1000s of dollars over time.

True, of course every expandable FFG game will cost over $100 and over time into $1000.

i don't think anyone is under the illusion you can buy a core set and walk away. Especially once you play it, it'll suck you in.

@Ywingscum Indeed. Painting supplies alone are going to be very expensive. It is just something that really should be understood upfront. Having to buy a $25 off faction expansion here and there is only a few pots of paint. All these people saying "oh no, Runewars is cheap, you only need to buy the one faction" are really being disingenuous.

Yes, you only need to buy into one faction. Yes, it is going to still be expensive. Yes, over time, you'll probably end up doing a second faction if you really get into it. Yes, if you really can't afford it you should walk away.

1 hour ago, Mep said:

If you want the upgrade card NOW, you need to buy out of faction.

If you want the upgrade NOW, you can proxy. You'll get it eventually in an in-faction expansion.

1 hour ago, Mep said:

Yes, if you really can't afford it you should walk away.

Or just focus on skirmishes instead of full 200-point games. There's no reason a person can't pick up a hero or two and still have a lot of fun with their core set.

2 hours ago, Mep said:

If you want the upgrade card NOW, you need to buy out of faction. If you can wait 3-9 months..

What is happening here is very clear. There is no controversy or need to troll people for being upset that this will, over time, be a very pricey game.

I agree with most of what you said. And no one is saying it isn't going to be pricey. We also aren't trolling someone who is upset about it being pricey. He's mad because he says the neutrals will only be in one package, which is false. Not just "we think it's false", we know it is.

Anyway, on a lighter note, I don't think you will have to wait anywhere near 9 months for these xpacs. If we do have to wait that long for the undead cavalry, I may riot.

And yeah, I'm ending up collecting most of the factions, so pricey indeed. Pretty much giving up xwing and armada though, so that makes it a bit easier.

@TallTonyB Technically he is correct. The card being exclusive is true until it is released in another pack of a different faction. Even then it remains partially true until it is released in all factions, only then does it become become false. It's going to be a while before that is the case. One can say that given enough time, with how often cards get reprinted, you could get all the cards for x-wing in only one faction. TBH a $25 pack here or there had better not be back breaking for a game that costs this much. The game mat alone will run more than that. If that $25 pack is really that big of a deal, then yeah, this isn't the game to be playing.

Yes you can proxy. You can proxy anything, including the entire game. For those that can't afford, I am sure this will be available on some tabletop simulator and should be considered over being late on the rent payment.

It took, what, 7 months from announcement to release of Runewars, so yeah, 9 months is on the extreme end, 3 months on the short end. Tomorrow of course would be nice.

FFG's two big games lately, Star Wars Destiny and Runewars, are games that are simply put, not cheap. They aren't exactly 1%er games but they aren't affordable to the general masses. As far as miniature games go, Runewars is actually not bad on the price. I would say it is the go to miniature game for those on a budget, although on a flexible budget. Destiny still feels like a slap on the face for a game that would be so much better served as an LCG.

I swear, this game could be free and people on this forum would still find something to complain about.

@Mep like I said, I agree with you about it being a pricey game. True minis games usually are. I'm not debating that.

That being said, saying that you have to buy out of faction to get upgrade cards is just false. We already see that they come in every faction when a unit comes out that could make use of it. If you have an upgrade that's great for cavalry, why would you put it in an xpac for a siege unit just to get it out at the same time? Now you have to buy a seige unit to get your calvary upgrade. How is that not worse?

The system they have running for this game is easily the best system you can have for distribution of an upgrade card based system short of giving every card away for free. And as awesome as that would be, wouldn't really work to keep the game running.

I'm really not trying to argue here, but the stuff he's posted multiple times now are just plain wrong. For a game that doesn't have the broad appeal of a star wars game, getting a community up and running is an uphill battle already. People like him are not helping with their disingenuous whining.

Edit: realized that sounded a bit mean, don't mean it like that. I got no problem with you I actually agree with a lot of what you said.

@TallTonyB NP. I understand not wanting to scare people away but they should know it won't be cheap and if buying 2 or 3 $25 expansions would scare someone off, then it is for the best.

With that said, this game is too cool not to take off in some measure, despite its niche appeal.

@Tvayumat It's the internet. It is for porn, cat videos and complaining, So feel free to complain about the complaining.

BTW, FFG's resent track record has been to go to more expensive games. Complaining about the cost is why you don't have to ultimately buy out of faction to get the upgrade cards you need and those expansion packs don't have to be $25. They could just as easily be $45. So it is healthy to say, "hey FFG, this is a bit too pricey for us".

That is all you do, this forum and others

5 hours ago, TallTonyB said:

I agree with most of what you said. And no one is saying it isn't going to be pricey. We also aren't trolling someone who is upset about it being pricey. He's mad because he says the neutrals will only be in one package, which is false. Not just "we think it's false", we know it is.

First of all I suggest you to calm dawn. Forum is for discussing things. Meanwhile you behave like a teenager defending honour of his favourite metal band. More maturity dude. I am not mad, I am doing what this place is used for - I discuss things. Only person close to being mad is you, with your immature emotional posting.
Secondly, as for now it is not false to say some neutral cards are possible to get only by buying other faction - and maybe it will change, but for now there are common cards possible to get only by buying specific boxes.
As I mentioned earlier, it is FFG's game - they may do whatever they like with their IP, but I got the right to comment it in polite manner, as I did earlier in this thread.
And you know why pricing is important? Because it might indicate if a game will be popular or not, if it will have mass appeal or not. High entry point might spell doom for success of this game, especially when there is a ton of other miniature games. And without fresh blood, new young players and big base of collectors this game won't survive or achieve tournament popularity - and because I am competitive player by nature, I want a game where there will be a lot of opponents, tournaments and huge community. Just like in X-Wing.
Not so long ago another company, namely GW, had marketing strategy for their fantasy system based on really high miniature prices. And whenever someone criticised this, a bunch of GW "fanboys" was always loud ready to drown said person. As we all could see in the end, voices of criticism were right - GW's iconic fantasy world is now dead, they lost a lot of customers, and it gave them a lesson - their new pricing policy is much more friendlier for potential new clients - just look at prices of new Tau starting force.

Lol. I'm fine son. Just pointing out your bull. I do find it funny that you post this multiple times, and every time everyone else tells you you're wrong, they show you why you're wrong and you just ignore it. And I'm the one that's immature? That's a laugh. Not sure why you only feel the need to read and respond to my posts when there are a bunch of other people calling you out just like I am, but hey whatever.

11 hours ago, Embir82 said:

Secondly, as for now it is not false to say some neutral cards are possible to get only by buying other faction - and maybe it will change, but for now there are common cards possible to get only by buying specific boxes.

From the beginning, FFG has said that you can get the upgrades you need for your faction by only buying in-faction expansions. And from the beginning, people have been moaning that it wasn't true and that the sky was falling. Since that time, we have seen many people say, "Oh no! See! You can only get X in this or that faction's expansions," only to see a future article reveal that it is in another faction's packs.

Complaining about it as you are doing is like saying, "FFG said there would be 4 factions and there aren't! Sure, they may plan to have 4 by the end of the year, but right now there are only 2!" Yeah, it's true, I guess, but it is completely twisting the facts by setting up false expectations. Are there currently 4 factions? No. Will there be 4 factions by the end of the year? Yes. It's the same with the upgrades. Sure, you could buy out-of-faction to get cards sooner, but if you wanted, you could only buy in-faction and still get the cards you need. FFG seems to be keeping that commitment. And if there are neutral cards not available to all factions currently, I have no doubts that they will be available in the near future.

Doesn't this thread just need to be locked? It's completely misleading and is just devolving into pointless circular arguments?

In summary:

"Hey guys, the game is ruined by X distribution model!"

"Er, no it isn't, here's all the proof and evidence..."

"Er, yes it is"

"Er, no it isn't"

And on and on we go...

3 minutes ago, jonboyjon1990 said:

Doesn't this thread just need to be locked? It's completely misleading and is just devolving into pointless circular arguments?

In summary:

"Hey guys, the game is ruined by X distribution model!"

"Er, no it isn't, here's all the proof and evidence..."

"Er, yes it is"

"Er, no it isn't"

And on and on we go...

Welcome to the FFG Community Forums!

Just take this time to use other upgrades.

Just throwing this out there, it looks like we are in the boat because of the split release of the 1st wave...because it really looks like going forward if all neutral cards are coming out in each wave...I don't know and I'm primarily basing this theory off column tactics...which has been a stupidly heated discussion. But I feel that right now no one is on the ledge and know one really is trying to be offensive they are all just seeing a narrow scope. I could be wrong but I just think outside of the split wave FFG is showing that neutral cards will be releasing across all factions in the waves... I also think with that we are going to start seeing a LOT more faction only upgrades...