When is a card "in your hand" (Armitage + Dark Memories)

By FireBones, in Arkham Horror: The Card Game

Is a card considered "in your hand" when resolving an "After drawing a card" event?

The key scenario I have in mind: Agnes has Dr. Armitage and draws Dark Memories. She triggers Armitage's ability which occurs "After you draw a card."

If the card is considered in your hand at that point, then Armitage's ability cannot be used because one cannot elect to discard a weakness from his or her hand.

But if the card is not considered in your hand at that point, then it seems that Agnes could discard Dark Memories.

Note that this really only applies to Dark Memories at this point, as it has no Revelation effect.

You can't optionally discard a weakness, which includes discarding it to pay the cost of Armitage's ability.

As I mentioned in my post, the rule is "You cannot discard a weakness from your hand." (Rules reference page 21). That is the whole point of my question. At what point is a card considered "in your hand" relative to a an effect that triggers "After you draw."

The definition of "after" (page 4) is "the moment in time immediately after the specified timing point or triggering condition has fully resolved."

So the question is whether "being placed in your hand" is considered part of the resolution of drawing a card. This is a general question, not limited to questions about weaknesses. It may have applicability to other situations as well.

On further reflection, I think it should be obvious that a drawn card is "in your hand" for any "after you draw a card" trigger.

I would expect that a card with a "when a card is drawn" trigger would resolve before the card is placed in your hand.

For example, if a scenario card or something else had something like "When you draw a card: {do a skill test}", then a person with 4 cards in his hand before the drawing would not be able to use Higher Education.

I was commenting on the particular interaction you proposed, which you called a "key scenario," which has been asked and answered many times, under various rationales.

If you have some other interaction you're wondering about, I'm happy to discuss it, too.

Discussing game rulings in the abstract is rarely helpful, though. Nine times out of ten something is left out (intentionally or otherwise), which renders the conclusion moot or wrong. As an example, if the hypothetical effect were to draw a card as part of its cost rather than its effect, the timing is subtly different, but that will rarely be mentioned except in reference to specific cards, and often forgotten without reference to those cards' text.

All that being said, "after" effects trigger after effects are fully resolved, as suggested by the timing keyword. So the card is in your hand when any "after" effects would trigger.

13 minutes ago, FireBones said:

I would expect that a card with a "when a card is drawn" trigger would resolve before the card is placed in your hand.

Yes. Even before that, actually. The card would still be on your deck, unless the triggering condition requires you to identify its type.

Which is exactly the kind of subtle distinction that gets lost when discussing hypothetical interactions.