So I would be completely surprised to find out that no one has run this for kicks and giggles. My question is how did that go for you, and for players who have squared off against this monstrosity, what is the thought going through your head as you realize if this fleet heals damage on the station four times, it will need an additional damage deck ? While I'm sure in theory Rieekan Aceholes rips this list apart, I'm curious if the obstacle and deployment shenanigans are enough to eke out a 6-5 or better, especially when it is second player? (I'm willing to ditch Medical Team and Minister Tua on the Interdictor to make that happen.)

Motti's Dreadnoughts
Author: GiledPallaeon

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 398/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Station Assault
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 136 total ship cost

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 136 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Interdictor -class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Medical Team ( 1 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- G7-X Grav Well Projector ( 2 points)
- Grav Shift Reroute ( 2 points)
= 126 total ship cost

So after about four serious tests, two against Rebels and two against Imperials, I am bullish about this fleet's long term prospects (i.e. what it can do once I sort it out). No test has been against a Cracken MSU or a truly heavy bomber list from either faction, but the fleet has advantages. With objectives, it can force the fight to happen near enough to the ISD front arcs, GSR means I have to cede the objective to lose it (like letting an ISD barge down the middle). For more details see the batrep I posted in that sub forum. Dreadnoughts Mk 1A is a simple change, ECM over RBD, and Salvage Run over DT. More tests to follow.

I'm not sold on that dropping to I-1s is a good idea, since that's nine hull down after ECM on Flag, but it opens up more upgrade possibilities, including said ECMs and Interdictor on Flag.

Motti's Dreadnoughts Mk 2A
Author: GiledPallaeon

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 396/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Station Assault
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

[ flagship ] Interdictor -class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Interdictor ( 3 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- G7-X Grav Well Projector ( 2 points)
- Grav Shift Reroute ( 2 points)
= 130 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Damage Control Officer ( 5 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- High-Capacity Ion Turbines ( 8 points)
= 133 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Damage Control Officer ( 5 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- High-Capacity Ion Turbines ( 8 points)
= 133 total ship cost

Can you get some TIEs or SOMETHING in there? I really feel you want some sort of defensive screen, lest you drop your 3 ships and I get to drop (essentially) my fleet in the best way to inconvenience you.

36 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Can you get some TIEs or SOMETHING in there? I really feel you want some sort of defensive screen, lest you drop your 3 ships and I get to drop (essentially) my fleet in the best way to inconvenience you.

Actually, in my (albeit limited) tests, deployment disadvantage isn't an issue. That comes with a huge proviso, which is that the fleet earns second player, which means a bid, the only area Dreadnoughts Mk 2 wins out in (well, it's easier to create a bid in that list by dropping DCO or HCIT). Because I have GSR with the three objectives noted, I really don't care where you deploy, it almost certainly won't seriously affect me. Now, I'm sure that becomes not true if I'm first player fighting someone else's objectives, but a similar deployment strategy arises: the fleet deploys in the corner such that the Star Destroyers can sweep (for more details see the batrep here ) and come out swinging. It's definitely not infallible, but I'm not sure it's as weak a link as it might be elsewhere. If someone can be on Vassal this evening, I'd be more than happy to square off and demonstrate my theories.

The problem that I see with the original list is that it's susceptible to fly-by shootings from Demolisher or MC30 (as well as bombers). While ISDs won't die even from a triple-tap, they'll be crippled and the return fire from them isn't strong enough to reliably kill anything larger than corvette (for this configuration I would definitely do ISD2/Spinal ISD1 instead). I'm not convinced on G7x/GSR combo either, as even if you're a second player, its enough to choose Dangerous Territory and deploy obstacles conservatively to deny you the points.

EDIT:And even a Salvage Run against a fleet wih strategic sqaudrons is going to be a tie at best

8 minutes ago, pt106 said:

The problem that I see with the original list is that it's susceptible to fly-by shootings from Demolisher or MC30 (as well as bombers). While ISDs won't die even from a triple-tap, they'll be crippled and the return fire from them isn't strong enough to reliably kill anything larger than corvette (for this configuration I would definitely do ISD2/Spinal ISD1 instead). I'm not convinced on G7x/GSR combo either, as even if you're a second player, its enough to choose Dangerous Territory and deploy obstacles conservatively to deny you the points.

I'm open to other ISD configurations, that's where the variation can come in. How do you suggest that I-2/I-1 pair look? And that is why DT has been dropped in newer versions of the list for Salvage Run.

I also have plans to deal with bombers, but they basically center around turtling on the objective, and leaping out to engage as late as possible without sacrificing too much incoming fire. I also note for Rhymer to enter range he's entered mine.

Just now, GiledPallaeon said:

I'm open to other ISD configurations, that's where the variation can come in. How do you suggest that I-2/I-1 pair look? And that is why DT has been dropped in newer versions of the list for Salvage Run.

ISD1 with Tua/RBD/Gunnery/LS/Spinal is 137 points. It is better at short range, comparable at long range and worse at a medium range. I would also take a look at Navigational Hazards as objective (doesn't know if its goig to be good, but it is worth testing)

However I still don't feel that 2ISD+Interdictor formula is doable, especially in a current squadron-heavy meta.

50 minutes ago, pt106 said:

ISD1 with Tua/RBD/Gunnery/LS/Spinal is 137 points. It is better at short range, comparable at long range and worse at a medium range. I would also take a look at Navigational Hazards as objective (doesn't know if its going to be good, but it is worth testing)

However I still don't feel that 2ISD+Interdictor formula is doable, especially in a current squadron-heavy meta.

I hear your concerns loud and clear, and I too am concerned about squaring off against bombers with zero screen and zero ships fitted to deal with it. My Vassal Freshman fleet had a heavily loaded Raider to handle that. However, I'm liking how the fleet is shaping up, and it will continue its rigorous testing. It should get another battery of tests over the next few weeks I'll post here. I'm definitely going to try out your I-1 kit versus the I-1 kit listed under the Mk 2A variation (yours is already in my files without Tua as the Mk 2C model). The potential of I-2 grade extreme range firepower plus the I-1's native powerhouse at close-quarters may be one key to this fleet being viable. I've never run any serious experiments with Nav Hazards, so I'll take a long look at it. Thanks for the feedback.

1 hour ago, pt106 said:

And even a Salvage Run against a fleet wih strategic sqaudrons is going to be a tie at best

Potentially, especially an Imperial list with Squall and a handful of Lambdas. That objective came well recommended, so it is in the testing slate for the next couple rounds. If it turns out to backfire, I'll continue to work through blue objectives. None are all that standout IMO, but I'm still learning how to maximize GSR shenanigans, so things may become clear over time.

6 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

Potentially, especially an Imperial list with Squall and a handful of Lambdas. That objective came well recommended, so it is in the testing slate for the next couple rounds. If it turns out to backfire, I'll continue to work through blue objectives. None are all that standout IMO, but I'm still learning how to maximize GSR shenanigans, so things may become clear over time.

The way I see it is: Objective tokens are deployed before station is moved with GSR and therefore are within range of strategic shuttles round 1. As long as two tokens are redeployed and claimed by opponent, the score from objective ends up being even.

I'm trying to find a good set of GSR-friendly objectives myself and so far didn't succeed (I'm thinking about Konstantine-led double Interdictor fleet with all the speed shenanigans and Nav hazards with chart officers on Interdictors may end up being interesting)

38 minutes ago, pt106 said:

The way I see it is: Objective tokens are deployed before station is moved with GSR and therefore are within range of strategic shuttles round 1. As long as two tokens are redeployed and claimed by opponent, the score from objective ends up being even.

I'm trying to find a good set of GSR-friendly objectives myself and so far didn't succeed (I'm thinking about Konstantine-led double Interdictor fleet with all the speed shenanigans and Nav hazards with chart officers on Interdictors may end up being interesting)

I'd have to do measuring, but since second player places the objective tokens, can't they all be placed on the near side of the station out of reach of strategic squadrons? The article contest Salvage Run article by @Ginkapo is very confident about the ability of a Suppression equipped as Flag to ensure the total domination of this objective. I can't claim to have tested it, but I'll trust his word until he is proven wrong on the table. I'm also not too salty about my opponent hurling CR90s into that zone (even after strategic) since that also happens to be the front arc of two angry and primed Star Destroyers looking for prey. I'll definitely post on this subject.

27 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

I'd have to do measuring, but since second player places the objective tokens, can't they all be placed on the near side of the station out of reach of strategic squadrons?

Nope, a strategic shuttle deployed directly opposite the station has range to reach all tokens except possibly one. This however may require to deploy one ship into speed-0 G7X zone.

4 minutes ago, pt106 said:

Nope, a strategic shuttle deployed directly opposite the station has range to reach all tokens except possibly one. This however may require to deploy one ship into speed-0 G7X zone.

On the one hand, that is irritating, since a Squall squadron command could plausibly grab three tokens well out of my reach. On the other hand, if I know that is the threat, GSR on their side of the station means I can put the obstacles at least near where the tokens will end up but without blocking my fields of fire. It also means I can almost certainly send Squall to join Phoenix Nest in the blackness of space.

Ok, so I have developed a Mark 3, and I don't know if it's brilliant or stupid. As I was discussing with @BrobaFett , this fleet is nominally supposedly to only come out of Speed 1 for chases and to jump on top of its targets once they enter the death zone. And from experience, I know that most of the time I'm only jumping to Speed 2. So without further ado, Motti's Dreadnoughts, Mark 3:

Motti's Dreadnoughts Mk 3
Author: GiledPallaeon

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 397/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Station Assault
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Spinal Armament ( 9 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 92 total ship cost

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Spinal Armament ( 9 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 92 total ship cost

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Spinal Armament ( 9 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 92 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Interdictor -class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Captain Needa ( 2 points)
- Medical Team ( 1 points)
- Grav Shift Reroute ( 2 points)
- G7-X Grav Well Projector ( 2 points)
= 121 total ship cost

I'm open to a lot of argument about the Mark 3, mostly because this is like its predecessors, the most ham version of it that can be had. HP counts are comparable to the original versions, if less individually impressive. I'm concerned that most of the threat the original could generate was that killing a fourteen hull ship is nigh impossible without return (17 with RBDs if you didn't manage a one turn wonder), while that is a lot less unmanageable at 10. Flip side is I now have more units, with more individual firepower, and I can even upgrade to V-2s with DC or just drop one entirely and have a squadron screen. What are the opinions of you all?

34 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

Ok, so I have developed a Mark 3, and I don't know if it's brilliant or stupid. As I was discussing with @BrobaFett , this fleet is nominally supposedly to only come out of Speed 1 for chases and to jump on top of its targets once they enter the death zone. And from experience, I know that most of the time I'm only jumping to Speed 2. So without further ado, Motti's Dreadnoughts, Mark 3:

Motti's Dreadnoughts Mk 3
Author: GiledPallaeon

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 397/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Station Assault
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Spinal Armament ( 9 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 92 total ship cost

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Spinal Armament ( 9 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 92 total ship cost

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Spinal Armament ( 9 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 92 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Interdictor -class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Captain Needa ( 2 points)
- Medical Team ( 1 points)
- Grav Shift Reroute ( 2 points)
- G7-X Grav Well Projector ( 2 points)
= 121 total ship cost

I'm open to a lot of argument about the Mark 3, mostly because this is like its predecessors, the most ham version of it that can be had. HP counts are comparable to the original versions, if less individually impressive. I'm concerned that most of the threat the original could generate was that killing a fourteen hull ship is nigh impossible without return (17 with RBDs if you didn't manage a one turn wonder), while that is a lot less unmanageable at 10. Flip side is I now have more units, with more individual firepower, and I can even upgrade to V-2s with DC or just drop one entirely and have a squadron screen. What are the opinions of you all?

Any worry about a Sloan meta and not bringing any fighters to counter it with her coming out and all?

11 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Any worry about a Sloan meta and not bringing any fighters to counter it with her coming out and all?

Am I concerned? Yes. Has it kicked my *** so hard it still hurts a week later? Not yet, and I probably won't properly respect her until that happens. With the Rhymer nerf, I'm less concerned about being jumped in such a way that the capital ships can't leap forward and destroy the carriers, but that's why I brought up the idea of a Mark 4 that trades in a Victory for a hefty squadron screen (Stele, three more Defenders, and Jendon would fit for example, and I know that can murder its way through most things it will encounter).

20 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

Am I concerned? Yes. Has it kicked my *** so hard it still hurts a week later? Not yet, and I probably won't properly respect her until that happens. With the Rhymer nerf, I'm less concerned about being jumped in such a way that the capital ships can't leap forward and destroy the carriers, but that's why I brought up the idea of a Mark 4 that trades in a Victory for a hefty squadron screen (Stele, three more Defenders, and Jendon would fit for example, and I know that can murder its way through most things it will encounter).

Ah, missed that sentence before somehow. I'd lean towards Vic 2s with dcaps and the squadron screen, personally. At the very least it let's you delay deployments as needed. The 2s would also likely let you hit something FROM DOWNTOWN which is always great with Gunnery Teams. You're not really fast enough with the Vic's to chase things down, so being able to hit from a distance helps.

Vic1's are scary too. Note that for just 1 point, you can have a Vic1+Expanded Launcher. You effectively trade 33% of range for double average damage. But Motti is clearly not the good admiral for that setup. Konstantine or Jerjerrod would be better. With an Interdictor. Just so ennemies can't dodge your shotgun barrel.

Also Victories dreadfully need Maneuver orders. Every Single Turn. They are like the Steam Iron of Imperial Navy (which makes an interesting acronym): they hurt a lot up close, they are sturdy, but they turn and move slow.

2's have that problem less, but are still dodgeable without maneuvers.

Your Dreadnoughts, coupled with the Rhymer nerf, have inspired me to try an all big ships no squads list before the skies fill up with Sloane swarms.

Double Dic Destroyer
Author: Megatronrex

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 399/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Minefields

[ flagship ] Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Commandant Aresko ( 7 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- G7-X Grav Well Projector ( 2 points)
- Targeting Scrambler ( 5 points)
= 139 total ship cost

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 145 total ship cost

Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Wulff Yularen ( 7 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Grav Shift Reroute ( 2 points)
- Targeting Scrambler ( 5 points)
= 115 total ship cost

I've played it twice with mixed results. The first game I had Dangerous Territory as my blue objective and lost to a Mothma, 2 TRC90s, 2 AF, 1 GR75, Z-95 swarm. First turn his engine-teched corvettes leapt across the board to snag tokens that were rightfully mine and the rest of his fleet picked up the 2 from his side while I picked up the 2 remaining tokens. 2nd round my Interdictors exchanged long range shots with his corvettes and then his corvettes ran away. No more shots were fired all game because no ships were within range of each other ever again. Second game same fleets but traded out DT for Minefields and made him come to me. I won this one but did lose an Interdictor. The final score was 243 to 115. This build sucks so bad against squadrons though the first wave of 6 Z95s hit me for 7 damage to the Interdictor and the second wave of those cheap b****** hit my ISD for a total of 8 damage while my combined damage to squadrons from regular attacks made against them and Quad laser turret attacks was 7 or 8 spread out among them and only 2 dead Zs. That second game was fun to play but the first one had me wanting to throw ships across the room.

On 6/27/2017 at 2:55 PM, Megatronrex said:

Your Dreadnoughts, coupled with the Rhymer nerf, have inspired me to try an all big ships no squads list before the skies fill up with Sloane swarms.

Double Dic Destroyer
Author: Megatronrex

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 399/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Minefields

[ flagship ] Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Commandant Aresko ( 7 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- G7-X Grav Well Projector ( 2 points)
- Targeting Scrambler ( 5 points)
= 139 total ship cost

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 145 total ship cost

Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Wulff Yularen ( 7 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Grav Shift Reroute ( 2 points)
- Targeting Scrambler ( 5 points)
= 115 total ship cost

I've played it twice with mixed results. The first game I had Dangerous Territory as my blue objective and lost to a Mothma, 2 TRC90s, 2 AF, 1 GR75, Z-95 swarm. First turn his engine-teched corvettes leapt across the board to snag tokens that were rightfully mine and the rest of his fleet picked up the 2 from his side while I picked up the 2 remaining tokens. 2nd round my Interdictors exchanged long range shots with his corvettes and then his corvettes ran away. No more shots were fired all game because no ships were within range of each other ever again. Second game same fleets but traded out DT for Minefields and made him come to me. I won this one but did lose an Interdictor. The final score was 243 to 115. This build sucks so bad against squadrons though the first wave of 6 Z95s hit me for 7 damage to the Interdictor and the second wave of those cheap b****** hit my ISD for a total of 8 damage while my combined damage to squadrons from regular attacks made against them and Quad laser turret attacks was 7 or 8 spread out among them and only 2 dead Zs. That second game was fun to play but the first one had me wanting to throw ships across the room.

I've been considering something very similar to that list for a while now, and haven't had a chance to test it for lack of an Interdictor /time on Vassal. I agree it's even weaker against squadron balls than the dual ISD variant. For that reason I'm considering that it might be worth it to have a pair of Combat Retrofits for the extra ASq die at close range, and have one ship with the Interdictor title and Targeting Scramblers, and the other with GSR to hold onto objective control is the working theory at the moment. I'm also of the opinion in this list the flagship should actually be the ISD, to make sure you get full value out of the hull points from Motti, and to draw some fire off the Interdictor s so they can work. QLT is a must, and I have better results with LS over DTT on an I-2, since I usually have more than one red flub, and it can boost ASq in a pinch.

7 hours ago, GiledPallaeon said:

I've been considering something very similar to that list for a while now, and haven't had a chance to test it for lack of an Interdictor /time on Vassal. I agree it's even weaker against squadron balls than the dual ISD variant. For that reason I'm considering that it might be worth it to have a pair of Combat Retrofits for the extra ASq die at close range, and have one ship with the Interdictor title and Targeting Scramblers, and the other with GSR to hold onto objective control is the working theory at the moment. I'm also of the opinion in this list the flagship should actually be the ISD, to make sure you get full value out of the hull points from Motti, and to draw some fire off the Interdictor s so they can work. QLT is a must, and I have better results with LS over DTT on an I-2, since I usually have more than one red flub, and it can boost ASq in a pinch.

I probably will try switching the Suppressions for Combats at least on one of them but I've gotten fairly good use out of the G7-X and definitely can't give up GSR. I don't use the ISD as my flagship because it draws so much fire already. Putting Motti on it would only increase its status as priority target #1. I've been using an Interdictor as my flagship for a while now and its only died once and that wasn't until the very last shot of round 6. My non flagship Dic died the other day but I had used it to parking lot my opponent's fleet and it tanked a round and a half of fire from his entire fleet plus 2 rams. Most of the guys I've played against give up on killing the Interdictor when it jumps back up to full health after the first round of combat. I actually dropped one of the QLTs for a tractor beam just because I mainly run into hit and run Corvettes and I'm tired of never getting shots against those little B*******. I think I'll stick with DTTs though over leading shots just because I've had exactly 1 blank red in every barrage that the ISD has fired lately and again because anything but a long range shot is rare against the guy I play the most but LS definitely would help with the AS.

I tweaked it a little and came up with this. Should get to try it out this afternoon.

Double Dic Destroyer Mk2
Author: Megatronrex

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Minefields

[ flagship ] Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Interdictor ( 3 points)
- Commandant Aresko ( 7 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- G7-X Grav Well Projector ( 2 points)
- Targeting Scrambler ( 5 points)
= 143 total ship cost

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 144 total ship cost

Interdictor-class Combat Refit (93 points)
- Wulff Yularen ( 7 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Grav Shift Reroute ( 2 points)
= 113 total ship cost

I'd swap what ship Motti is on/switch the officers on the Interdictors. Aresko usually goes second but Yularen doesn't care so he can go first and get his commands in in a pinch.