A lot of things about L5R fans are funny. People get caught up in identity politics in a world where cold blooded murder is taken for granted as a solution to famine induced civil disobedience. Hilarious.

9 minutes ago, Builder2 said:

We are very close to Doji Hotaru in this fiction...

This is exactly the problem I've been stating. We are far too close to a specific character and being forced to try to relate to her when we aren't even given enough information about the setting to know how we should be relating to her or interpreting her view! This is simply bad storytelling!

I don't know who all those people you mentioned are, but the fact that Ned does what he does out of a sense of honor already gives him a far better reason to do what he did than simple infatuation, and you accomplished that in a single sentence! I'm not asking for the full story of their relationship (and I don't know that I particularly want the full story, to be honest), but at least give us some indication that there is something more to the relationship than just, "she's pretty!"

9 minutes ago, Zalari said:

I think it was Katrina said in the FbLive that these articles would be exploring "what makes the champions tick ". And that, coupled whith the also stated desire to explore the struggle between desire and duty and the Clan's inner conflits makes me think we should expect these articles to explore the flaws and weakness of these characters more then their strenghs. Now, that might not be what people want, and I'm not saying it is the perfect piece of fiction to start us of with, but I do think people are underestimating how much it told us about the character.

This just seems like a huge, huge mistake to me. How are we supposed to understand and appreciate the champions' flaws when we don't even know anything about the setting yet? How are we even supposed to know that their flaws are flaws ? Let us get some feel for what FFG Rokugan is like before we get thrown into the very minds of the champions!

2 minutes ago, WHW said:

I find it funny and little bit unfair that you praise a dude for being overwhelmed by three peasants while acting unimpressed about the person who saved the dude in question by literally effortlessly mowing down multiple people like some kind of a whirlwind of steel.

The way I see it there are two options. Either she's just picking off enemies one by one and not getting ganged up on, and therefore it's not really a fair comparison; or else she's some kind of magical super-soldier which just gives the impression that she's merely some Mary Sue. Is that fair? Maybe not, but would it really have been so difficult for them to have her expend at least a little effort? Again, it all comes down to proper storytelling.

Then again, the Crane have always been the one clan that I couldn't relate to at all, so maybe that's the problem. Perhaps looking at a clan that actually makes sense to me will help renew my interest in the story. Because as it stands, I could easily see myself just buying the game for the game and ignoring the fiction altogether.

And so the Game of Thrones (I mean Clan Wars) begin with the death of the King's Hand (I mean Emerald Champion) and a conspiracy about who did it... I would not be surprised if it was Doji Shizue who poisened Satsume, probably on behave of Littlefinger (a certain Matsu in this case? Or the Kolat? Or some Scorpion who already prepare for a coup and want the Crane to be distracted).

2 minutes ago, Drudenfusz said:

And so the Game of Thrones (I mean Clan Wars) begin with the death of the King's Hand (I mean Emerald Champion) and a conspiracy about who did it... I would not be surprised if it was Doji Shizue who poisened Satsume, probably on behave of Littlefinger (a certain Matsu in this case? Or the Kolat? Or some Scorpion who already prepare for a coup and want the Crane to be distracted).

If that was the case she probably just hated him like all his other children do. She's just better at hiding it because shes a good courtier. Hotaru is a warrior, even if she is a Crane, she still has certain things she at excels at and things she needs to improve at. Hoturi was quite brash and reactive if I remember correctly.

2 minutes ago, Drudenfusz said:

And so the Game of Thrones (I mean Clan Wars) begin with the death of the King's Hand (I mean Emerald Champion) and a conspiracy about who did it... I would not be surprised if it was Doji Shizue who poisened Satsume, probably on behave of Littlefinger (a certain Matsu in this case? Or the Kolat? Or some Scorpion who already prepare for a coup and want the Crane to be distracted).

Ooh! Maybe she poisoned Satsume because the Crane were always looking down on her (a disability could be viewed as an imperfection, after all!)?

18 minutes ago, MoZi said:

A lot of things about L5R fans are funny. People get caught up in identity politics in a world where cold blooded murder is taken for granted as a solution to famine induced civil disobedience. Hilarious.

In fairness, it's hard to call it "cold-blooded murder" when you're simply defending yourselves against people ambushing you with intent to kill...unless I've completely missed what you're referring to, that is. (Sorry, it's late here.)

13 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

In fairness, it's hard to call it "cold-blooded murder" when you're simply defending yourselves against people ambushing you with intent to kill...unless I've completely missed what you're referring to, that is. (Sorry, it's late here.)

Hotaru had other options after she encountered the ronin she just decided they weren't legitimate because

1. She is a privileged beyond belief.

2. She is Crane, though in fairness the Daiymo of at least half the other clans would probably respond in a similar fashion.

3. Her station and the social structure she exists in allows her to disregard the basic necessities of those below her (which is basically everyone).

She could have recognized her part in the creation of the situation; the opulence of her clan, particularly in times of famine, in the face of starving peasants. Then she could have negotiated and reasoned with the Ronin and found a solution while also negotiating his exit from Crane lands permanently (like being sent to the wall). But yeah glory, hubris, and privilege dictates that is not an option in this society. But as a rational observer it's still murder and I'd eat my shoe if Yokuni, Ujimitsu, or Shoju responded similarly. At least the AEG equivalents of those characters.

1 minute ago, MoZi said:

Hotaru had other options after she encountered the ronin she just decided they weren't legitimate because

1. She is a privileged beyond belief.

2. She is Crane, though in fairness the Daiymo of at least half the other clans would probably respond in a similar fashion.

3. Her station and the social structure she exists in allows her to disregard the basic necessities of those below her (which is basically everyone).

She could have recognized her part in the creation of the situation; the opulence of her clan, particularly in times of famine, in the face of starving peasants. Then she could have negotiated and reasoned with the Ronin and found a solution while also negotiating his exit from Crane lands permanently (like being sent to the wall). But yeah glory, hubris, and privilege dictates that is not an option in this society. But as a rational observer it's still murder and I'd eat my shoe if Yokuni, Ujimitsu, or Shoju responded similarly. At least the AEG equivalents of those characters.

Were we given any indication that the ronin had any desire to negotiate at that point? Or that he had any desire not to duel? You could as easily rule his death a suicide as anything else, if you're so inclined.

Furthermore, wasn't the rice a tax being sent to the capital? If so, then it belonged to the Emperor and she'd have no right to barter with it, anyway.

Just now, JJ48 said:

Were we given any indication that the ronin had any desire to negotiate at that point? Or that he had any desire not to duel? You could as easily rule his death a suicide as anything else, if you're so inclined.

Furthermore, wasn't the rice a tax being sent to the capital? If so, then it belonged to the Emperor and she'd have no right to barter with it, anyway.

He was reasonable enough to state his exact purpose in trying to steal the rice. Sounds pretty rational to me.

And regardless of where and whom that rice belonged. Remember we're dealing with an obscene level of opulence. Remember when Hotaru was judging the slight difference in shade among the blossoms. The Crane are notorious for this.

1 hour ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

[The Phoenix] also borrowed [...] "hey, we have actual Dragons hanging out with us!".

This point got brought up a lot back in the day but it was never at odds with the lore; the Phoenix Clan are about understanding and using the mystical and divine forces of the universe (which the elemental dragons were embodiments of) while the Dragon Clan is about understanding and using the mystical and divine forces within yourself.

5 minutes ago, MoZi said:

He was reasonable enough to state his exact purpose in trying to steal the rice. Sounds pretty rational to me.

What does this have to do with anything? We were discussing whether he was willing to negotiate; not whether he was capable of negotiating.

2 minutes ago, MoZi said:

And regardless of where and whom that rice belonged. Remember we're dealing with an obscene level of opulence. Remember when Hotaru was judging the slight difference in shade among the blossoms. The Crane are notorious for this.

Level of opulence doesn't enter into it. Bill Gates probably spends more every day than I make in a year, but that doesn't mean I'm entitled to help myself to a portion of his fortune!

1 minute ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

This point got brought up a lot back in the day but it was never at odds with the lore; the Phoenix Clan are about understanding and using the mystical and divine forces of the universe (which the elemental dragons were embodiments of) while the Dragon Clan is about understanding and using the mystical and divine forces within yourself.

So in a manner of speaking, both Dragon and Phoenix are brothers or cousins, of a sort.

This topic certainly warrants a thread of its own, as soon as more fiction is released.

2 minutes ago, LordBlunt said:

So in a manner of speaking, both Dragon and Phoenix are brothers or cousins, of a sort.

This topic certainly warrants a thread of its own, as soon as more fiction is released.

Well they did live next to each other, but it's often family members that fight the most.

But indeed, we shall see how these topics are handled in the FFG setting. As much fun as Phoenix Dragons was to play (Void Dragon Munch Munch Munch) I would be just as happy if it wasn't a Phoenix (or any clan) deck type this time around.

1 minute ago, JJ48 said:

What does this have to do with anything? We were discussing whether he was willing to negotiate; not whether he was capable of negotiating.

Level of opulence doesn't enter into it. Bill Gates probably spends more every day than I make in a year, but that doesn't mean I'm entitled to help myself to a portion of his fortune!

Remember you're responding to a post where I compared people getting ruffled over identity politics while completely ignoring fascism.

But yeah, I can entertain this a little longer. We have no evidence that he wasn't willing to negotiate. Hotaru immediately passes judgment on him after he rationally explains his position, "There is only the penalty, which is death". So we do have evidence that Hotaru wasn't willing to negotiate. And on top of that she also held the advantage in the battle which means he was in a position where negotiation was his only legitimate means of achieving his goal.

Your moral theories on protecting overwhelming wealth in the face of poverty and starvation aren't universally accepted. Though neither are mine. So I'll accept a draw on this issue if you're willing to accept that Bill Gates wouldn't run someone through with a naginata for trying to steal some rice to feed their community.

6 minutes ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

Well they did live next to each other, but it's often family members that fight the most.

But indeed, we shall see how these topics are handled in the FFG setting. As much fun as Phoenix Dragons was to play (Void Dragon Munch Munch Munch) I would be just as happy if it wasn't a Phoenix (or any clan) deck type this time around.

The Kami were all brother and sister. Though I believe it was Shiba and Bayushi who were the twins.

9 minutes ago, MoZi said:

So I'll accept a draw on this issue if you're willing to accept that Bill Gates wouldn't run someone through with a naginata for trying to steal some rice to feed their community.

Bill Gates, indomitable Champion of the Windows Clan?

Just now, Suzume Tomonori said:

Bill Gates, indomitable Champion of the Windows Clan?

Someone make that a card, NOW!

Oh man. I really want a Hotaru proxy with Bill Gates photoshopped into a dress , holding a naginata, screaming, "I drink your milkshake!". But I'll never play crane so I don't want to make it XP

57 minutes ago, LordBlunt said:

So in a manner of speaking, both Dragon and Phoenix are brothers or cousins, of a sort.

This topic certainly warrants a thread of its own, as soon as more fiction is released.

They're both mystically-inclined clans living next door to each other with relatively small populations, plenty of mountains, and an emphasis on doing things their way.

Small wonder, then, that their playerbases frequently accuse one another of poaching their private goodies. The Phoenix definitely took more mechanical stuff, but I would argue that the Dragon perpetrated more theft of narrative thematics in the wake of the Clan War.

After Reading this Story, i'm disappointed,

One i'm a Ronin Player, and don't see that i will be playing the game at release. which usually happened when the editions switched.

The Content of this story felt like Fluff... and detracted from what i'm used to... the overall quality was poor... and it just felt like poor fanfic...

i'll keep an eye out on other fictions, but i'm probably going to continue to be disappointed, if the quality is the same.

EDIT:

Of the people i discuss L5R with, all of us have gone Meh... to this story...

The Crab is worried, as the Wall may fall...

The Crane is angry as the culture is ignored

The Dragon is Contemplating his Clan new Ruin

The Lion is Chuckling at the Cranes Discomfort,

The Phoenix Stands, cautious of Tales.

The Scorpion Seethes with Kachiko's Betrayal.

The Unicorn stands aside in their Pasture and Weeps.

The Ronin is Lost, abandoned on the streets.

The Hare are wary of the future it holds,

The Tortoise are scared that their story will be untold.

The Mantis are concerned that they aren't a clan at all

The Centipede are Wondering if they exist at all

The Wasp are considering becoming the Great clan,

The Naga hopes they don't wake up to this tale.

and the other Ronin, weeps at the loss of his world.

so you are moaning that you dont like the first fiction of a game you will not play ?

why would anyone care then?

the fiction, imho, was good. It did a good job of setting the scene for the crane, it did a good job of relating the clans themes to the game clans themes. Plus it fleshed out some key characters. Finally it had a good fight where the 'hero' was not infallible.

I am happy. Looking forward to the clan previews - go powder blue!!

I imagine Hotaru, as presented in her interactions with and feelings about her father, probably grew up feeling rather lonely and generally resentful, and most likely had or has a very low opinion of herself and her worth. If canon holds true then her brother Kuwanan was a non entity in her life being raised among other clans, and we notably didn't get any scenes of her being trained by Toshimoko. Given his reputation I find it highly unlikely that he played the surrogate father/drinking and adventuring buddy role with Hotaru as be did with Hoturi, it would have been wildly inappropriate. Add to it even in Rokugan being a homosexual isn't 100% okay, it's just something people try hard to ignore or pretend doesn't exist, but there is an underlying impression that the person is wrong for being 'that way'.

I would absolutely not be surprised if the story turned out to be that the Scorpion discovered Hotaru's proclivities and Kachiko was ordered to work her magic on this lonely, vulnerable, extremely unhappy girl (probably by Shoju) for their own purposes. Having someone like Kachiko make Hotaru not only feel special but also "normal" would be a huge appeal for someone in Hotaru's miserable position.

If they decide that Kachiko isnt putting on an act anymore and actually ended up falling in love with Hotaru, which wasn't part of the plan and is probably something she isn't keen to let Shoju or anyone else know about, you're also setting up an interesting depth of internal conflict to her character as well.

4 hours ago, Zalari said:

As someone else who also didn't know, that actually did bother me. As canes are traditionally associated with "elder" people (I realize that it's by no means limited to) I originally imagined Shizue as an older woman. Than I found out she was Hotaru's sister and I got confused and came out without a clear mental image of her.

I did like it a lot, but that and a couple other unclear references to places did bother me, as a new fan.

Well, it did identify her as a sister first, before telling you she had a cane.

2 hours ago, LordBlunt said:

So in a manner of speaking, both Dragon and Phoenix are brothers or cousins, of a sort.

This topic certainly warrants a thread of its own, as soon as more fiction is released.

The Phoenix are the Scientists of Rokugan... the Dragon are the Philosophers.... both trying to understand the nature of the 'universe' and there standing within but in totally different ways. Even if there understandings overlap sometimes.