The reason why a 1 or 2 point missile or torp can't roll 4-5 attack dice is because the value of each subsequent attack value is non linear. An increase from 3 to 4 is more valuable than an increase from 2 to 3, or indeed from 1 to 2.

This is why a single Phantom has a more powerful attack than two TIE/ln-s'. The 4 dice attack is stronger than two 2 dice attacks, and it is priced accordingly.

21 minutes ago, Ram said:

Even if you can only take one and no extra munitions? Even if dice cant be modified?

I think so. Yes.

Would a 1 or 2 point piece of disposable ordnance break the game? It all depends on what exactly it does.

Now would one that allows 4 modifiable dice at a longer range for 2 point be broken? Probably but if you throw too many restrictions at it you'd be back to wondering why use it. As mentioned for torpedoes you need to compare it to Plasma Torps (4 dice, 3 points) and Flechette Torps (3 dice, 2 points) both of which offer a little something extra. That leads to the question of is taking a shield off on a ship after all the other dice have done their work worth one more points and is giving a lower hulled ship a stress token equivalent to just having another attack die instead. The answer to that last one is definitely NO but maybe the FT is just too weak to play anyway. As for taking a shield off w/ the Plasma being worth a point more I'd venture a "generally not" as it is a bit conditional although it may work wonders for the first hit on heavily shielded ship it is completely worthless on ships with very few or even no shields at all.

For missiles there already are three choices at 3 points and while the Proton Rockets can get up to 5 damage and only take a Focus they are very short range, the Advanced Missile has a narrow range band for a single card and while the most versatile the Ion Pulse can still only cause a point of damage.

4 hours ago, Mrk1984 said:

These wouldn't be bad for ships that can't take extra munitions. Generally a torpedo isn't worth the points and action for 3 die primary ship, but for only 2 points to get the extra die once and cancel out range 3 it has some value, but there would need to be some type of built in modifiers (like change 1 focus to a hit) or its DOA.

This could make use of the Torpedo slot on Xwings and Starvipers. Make it a torpedo or missile and it works for several ships.

If the missile/torp is so cheap then Extra Munitions only becomes an issue on those ships with many ordnance slots to fill. If you can take a 2 point torp why would you care about EM if you could just spend those 2 points on another torp anyway? It may make a difference on the Bomber/Punisher types but not on many others.

As for a dirt cheap expendable I've often wondered if the game shouldn't have Flares. Cheap, low damage attacks that may be short range but can also attack targets out of arc or they could be used to counter an incoming piece of ordnance. Thinking back to X-Wing I know there were times I didn't quite finish off my target on the first pass but would fire a flare at it as it blew past and have that finish it off.

32 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Just fire an Adv Proton Torp without getting a Focus. Done.

While game mechanically it can happen, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense fluff-wise. I mean, are you dodging or shooting?

Well, a weapon platform that would rely on a defensive token/stance to make sense fluff-wise...

Drawing from the real world, maybe a Patriot Missile type weapon. Or a space program from the 80's that was originally designed to defend against nukes and was named after some old movie from the 70s. "Star-something" I think it was called ?

But seriously, I was thinking along the lines of Awings or Defenders who could take evades naturally as well as multiple ways to earn other modifiers or tokens. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned having the be sure JM5K wouldn't become any more broken, so this would be a possibility. It could be some sort of countermeasure secondary weapon. And similar to attacks requiring focus tokens, the lower PS pilots who get fired on before their attack turn would need to decide if they spend the evade token or not.

It was just a thought to throw out there. Who knows!

1 minute ago, piznit said:

But seriously, I was thinking along the lines of Awings or Defenders who could take evades naturally as well as multiple ways to earn other modifiers or tokens. It could be some sort of countermeasure secondary weapon. And similar to attacks requiring focus tokens, the lower PS pilots who get fired on before their attack turn would need to decide if they spend the evade token or not.

It was just a thought to throw out there. Who knows!

Only the x7 can take evades, and that cannot equip a missile

37 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

Only the x7 can take evades, and that cannot equip a missile

Oh snap, you're right!

So TIE Adv was the imp ship I was thinking of! One who could use a little love

2 hours ago, Ram said:

I dont really think it is needed, its more of a mental experiment what it would spawn. The thing is, no ship except perhaps Bossk and some procket ships that has just one torp or missile slot packs ordinance. I feel that a single shot missile or torp could help a lot of the smaller ships without really breaking stuff.

People are complaining about Torp Scouts, imagine what they would say about a 7 ship alpha strike!

Most current builds are 2-3 ships. With 7 attack dice and mods figure on killing 1-1/2 to 2 Zs in the first round of shooting. That leaves 6-1/2 to 6 Zs remaining Those 6 Zs can throw 24 red dice that can be modified. After mods you're looking at approximately 18 red dice.

See if you can find some of the older matches where the Imps flew a 6-8 ship swarm. Pretty much a thing of beauty when flown well and deadly as you could want.

Try it for yourself. If you don't have 7 Zs, just designate some ships as Zs, use the maneuvers on a Z dial and arm them with a 2point, 2 Attack Range 2-3 weapon and have a couple of games. I think you'll be surprised at the results.

Would anyone be okay with this if it were real?

Strike Fighter

I think this would be viable a few ways.

Intruder Missile

4 dice

Attack(Target Lock): Spend Target lock and discard this card to perform this attack, if the attack hits cancel all but one damage or crit and assign 2 ion tokens, and a weapons disabled token at the beginning of the next round.

1-2 pts

Heavy Rocket

4 dice

Attack (Focus): Discard this card to perform this attack, may not modify die results except with focus tokens

1-2 pts

Flare Dispenser (torpedo slot)

Cost 1

No Attack value not Range.

After executing a maneuver, you may discard this card to assign one Evade token to your ship, or remove one red Target Lock token from your ship.

There. B-wings, X-wings and Y-wings fixed at the same time. Even Firespray would enjoy this!

Second option is PS dependent, too. So clever.

18 minutes ago, Jetfire said:

I think this would be viable a few ways.

Intruder Missile

4 dice

Attack(Target Lock): Spend Target lock and discard this card to perform this attack, if the attack hits cancel all but one damage or crit and assign 2 ion tokens, and a weapons disabled token at the beginning of the next round.

1-2 pts

Heavy Rocket

4 dice

Attack (Focus): Discard this card to perform this attack, may not modify die results except with focus tokens

1-2 pts

Ranges on these weapons?

That Intruder Missile sure looks like a MUCH improved version of the 3 point Ion Pulse Missile which only gets to roll 3 dice (granted IP doesn't have to discard it's TL first) and if it hits it only deals one damage and two ion tokens. So you'd have something that hits as hard or harder, can cause critical damage, prevents the target from attacking next turn, AND costs less? I think not.

That Heavy Rocket is really going to depend on the range. At 2 points getting to roll 4 attack dice that can't be modified may be close to working but that could be the limit.

11 hours ago, Stoneface said:

People are complaining about Torp Scouts, imagine what they would say about a 7 ship alpha strike!

Most current builds are 2-3 ships. With 7 attack dice and mods figure on killing 1-1/2 to 2 Zs in the first round of shooting. That leaves 6-1/2 to 6 Zs remaining Those 6 Zs can throw 24 red dice that can be modified. After mods you're looking at approximately 18 red dice.

See if you can find some of the older matches where the Imps flew a 6-8 ship swarm. Pretty much a thing of beauty when flown well and deadly as you could want.

Try it for yourself. If you don't have 7 Zs, just designate some ships as Zs, use the maneuvers on a Z dial and arm them with a 2point, 2 Attack Range 2-3 weapon and have a couple of games. I think you'll be surprised at the results.

Well, we can already today mount a 6 ship version (Bandit/Talas + Concussion missiles + chips) of that and that does not see any play whatsoever. And that is with Concussion missiles so the shots will be very well modified allowing to change up to 2 blanks to hits (chips + missile). If we were to add one more ship + missile the damage output from the alpha strike would stay about the same I think. It is hard to get the target locks to fire the missiles for low PS ships. I think the best version of that is the Blount Tread tracers version and even that one I have not seen played with any major success anywhere.

The problem with Torp boats is not only the Alpha strike, its the fact that they are also extremely durable, maneuverable and have a PWT plus the action stacking of the Mindlink.