On 5/24/2017 at 3:09 AM, Hennessy said:

Have you ever played it? If not, than please try it and than return. You definitely do not do 10+ damage per turn consistently (actually to do 10+ damage per turn you need either thermal with multiiple targets or late game upgrades/PU in play) and eventhough it is tier1 aggro deck in its pure form, it is beatable and it has its own structural issues which can be abused. The deck itself is quite interesting and has its ways and interesting choices (mind that 90% of decklists of Poe/Maz on SWDB are total garbage) and despite already playing like 70 games with the deck, I still enjoy its gameplay and it is far from autopilot when you want to play it correctly. It has close matchup with other 1/2 character aggro lists and it can be controlled by heavy discard decks.

It started in December 2016 with Jango/Veers whine, than Vader/Raider, Hyperloops deck than Force Speed, few weeks ago it was Second Chance / Ammo Belt abuse and now it is Poe/Maz. Poeple tend to overreact on some aspects of the game and do statements on internet instead of creatively thinking how to adapt and use the meta in their own way.

To answer your questions: because Obi Wan and Luke have their own sides with 3 damage unpaid together with very good passive ability. Maz is worth of 11 points for elite because her dice when used for focus than give 0 by themselves and you basicly play only with your other two dice only making yourself vulnerable to dice removal. Also she has only 8HP which means she can be killed turn 1 and finally her die is the worst in the game. You basically pay only for her ability and focus. You can compare her pretty safely to Rey which is 12 point elite for 10HP, almost the same power level of passive ability and better die.

It's broke and you and everyone else knows it. That deck takes zero skill to play and almost caused me to quit the game. It didn't help that the guy I was playing was smug but acted like he didn't know the game (probably didn't, my 6 year old could probably win Worlds with this and he can't even read all the words yet!). All you do is load up on high attack supports and upgrades and throw Fast Hands, Cunning, and Cheat in there. Maz lets you focus up Poe every time and 8-10 damage a turn before your opponent can do anything. It's not a creative or "smart" build and it is annoying. I understand how it got in the game because FFG is learning with this but they need to come out and fix this ASAP.

A few ways they can handle it. One is to ban Poe from Organized Play but I think that is a touch strong. Another is to ban the combo but that also seems gamey. Another I like is to errata Poe's cost to be 15/21 or 22. Personally I think the best would be to errata Poe's special to be Vehicles only. That would cut down the pool of overpowered cards you can throw in and just resolve. It would still be powerful but far more fair and would require at least a little bit of deck building.

On 5/24/2017 at 5:09 AM, Hennessy said:

Have you ever played it? If not, than please try it and than return. You definitely do not do 10+ damage per turn consistently (actually to do 10+ damage per turn you need either thermal with multiiple targets or late game upgrades/PU in play) and eventhough it is tier1 aggro deck in its pure form, it is beatable and it has its own structural issues which can be abused. The deck itself is quite interesting and has its ways and interesting choices (mind that 90% of decklists of Poe/Maz on SWDB are total garbage) and despite already playing like 70 games with the deck, I still enjoy its gameplay and it is far from autopilot when you want to play it correctly. It has close matchup with other 1/2 character aggro lists and it can be controlled by heavy discard decks.

It started in December 2016 with Jango/Veers whine, than Vader/Raider, Hyperloops deck than Force Speed, few weeks ago it was Second Chance / Ammo Belt abuse and now it is Poe/Maz. Poeple tend to overreact on some aspects of the game and do statements on internet instead of creatively thinking how to adapt and use the meta in their own way.

To answer your questions: because Obi Wan and Luke have their own sides with 3 damage unpaid together with very good passive ability. Maz is worth of 11 points for elite because her dice when used for focus than give 0 by themselves and you basicly play only with your other two dice only making yourself vulnerable to dice removal. Also she has only 8HP which means she can be killed turn 1 and finally her die is the worst in the game. You basically pay only for her ability and focus. You can compare her pretty safely to Rey which is 12 point elite for 10HP, almost the same power level of passive ability and better die.

It was the first deck I played when SoR came out. I was a Poe/Rey player all throughout Awakenings. I tried to make ePoe/Padme work similarly to how people ran eLuke/Ackbar but playing all in and using Poe's special throw thermals and Falcons. It was fun but not very consistent. So I was excited that Poe was getting a yellow partner that could be played elite along with him. It didn't take me more than 2 games to realize how busted it was and that was with a sub-optimal deck since I didn't have many SoR cards except eMaz. As far as doing 10 damage consistently all you need to do is run Starship Graveyard and loop thermals every turn which is either 6 or 9 damage, and then chuck a falcon, bowcaster, or uwing. That doesn't even factor planetary uprising into the equation! And oh no, they removed my other Poe die that I didn't Fast Hands? Well Maz is extra cunning so she can throw falcons, thermals, and launch bays too!

Why the **** would anyone reasonable play Graveyard and Cheat in that deck. If you want to cycle thermals to win more against 3-4 character decks, good luck with it when playing against hard counter decks like ePalpatine. Everytime someone writes things like this during some complains regarding Poe/Maz, I really doubt he knows what is he writing about.

I understand that not everyone has complete palysets of both editions, but there is still TTS, where you can test various decks with access to all cards. Once you do this, you will find out, that teching against Poe in any incarnation is not so difficult and to be honest only issue is Thermal in case you play 3 or 4 character decks (and you still have to draw it). There are decks which can spike much more damage and I personally have experienced decks killing my Poe round 1 (by damage not Crime Lord).

Maybe its time to ask people to first mention the decklist they play before the discussion even begins.

@Tierdal: I am not going to share the decklist before Europeans but Bigulf have quite a good one to start with (I still have differences but he is closest).

3 hours ago, whiteshark17 said:

One is to ban Poe from Organized Play but I think that is a touch strong.

That would be the beggining of the end of this game as people would start wondering is there any point of investing money as your deck may get banned out in an instant.

3 hours ago, whiteshark17 said:

Another I like is to errata Poe's cost to be 15/21 or 22.

Reasoable but he is not that strong by himself to raise his cost up. Its the combo that makes him strong and point cost cannot take that into account. And it would do nothing to Poe/Maz as he would just take regular Maz.

3 hours ago, whiteshark17 said:

I think the best would be to errata Poe's special to be Vehicles only.

Agreed is sounds reasonable but again what it would change? Only Major card that would be thrown out would be Detonator. Uwing, Black1 and Falcon can take care of that loss.

3 hours ago, jtstrick84 said:

As far as doing 10 damage consistently all you need to do is run Starship Graveyard and loop thermals every turn which is either 6 or 9 damage, and then chuck a falcon, bowcaster, or uwing.

I agree that you have somehow limited experience in runnig this deck. I ran Graveyard and its really subpar to Throne Room. There are better ways to recycle Thermal. Plus its almost NEVER consistent 10 dmg. Consistent 6 is more reasonable and that is not out of reach of maaaany decks.

1 hour ago, Hennessy said:

Maybe its time to ask people to first mention the decklist they play before the discussion even begins.

Amen. I fell like most people play some thrown out decks, gets stomped by Poe and then cry. PoeMaz is the essence of strong deck - things like this occur in every card came. You cannot expect to put fair fight to it without using top deck yourself. I remember my MtG days. I had deck that I considered strong and worked good vs my friends. Then i took it to FnM in our lgs...yea i had lost everything 0:2. Come on people more deckbuilding less moaning

7 hours ago, Vitalis said:

That would be the beggining of the end of this game as people would start wondering is there any point of investing money as your deck may get banned out in an instant.

I completely agree with this! They can't just start banning stuff, or the game loses its collectability aspect. If a collectible game starts banning cards, then even owning the top-tier cards becomes a bit akin to investing in gold, single stocks, or futures. You can't keep people interested in a game where an oppressive level of errata, etc. makes new players unable to even understand what's going on in the game and makes the most valuable parts of older players' collections worthless with a new FAQ every few months.

FFG does not want a scenario where a new player shows up at a tournament and has a deck that is legal by the game's rules but illegal at the tournament. So they try to use errata simply to tweak the way that cards work. That's why it's unlikely that they'll change costs of characters or ban cards, because a new player would most likely show up to a tournament with an illegal deck, which is much worse than showing up and being told by the TO that a card doesn't work the way you thought it did.

Rumour on another thread was that Poe was in the next set of starter decks. If that's true, FFG may have a most recent printing rule and reprint the same version with updated text/stats. Would suck to replace a legendary with a starter card, but would make some sense.

But, who am I kidding? With the design choices all around speeding up the game, FFG will probably decide to replace Poe's blank with another special and reduce his cost by two. This game should be designed to go four turns. Three for aggro builds that go off, five for control. That's the fun sweet spot for the back-and-forth, twenty minute match. Errata Poe or not and they've still allowed too many deck concepts that make the game two turns. Supports are useless, three plus cost upgrades useless without Holocron or some resource cheat (or over-riding an existing upgrade). Game has got far larger problems than Poe, which is beaten easily by shielding up and killing Poe off.

What thread was saying Poe may be in the next starter? I would love to read that.

6 minutes ago, pitsch said:

What thread was saying Poe may be in the next starter? I would love to read that.

It was the one about the spoiler leaks. Someone said they saw PDFs of the cards supposedly in the next starter. It was from the March buildup to SoR. I'll try to dig it up.

Was in thread: Wave 3 Character Speculation

10 hours ago, pitsch said:

Rumour on another thread was that Poe was in the next set of starter decks. If that's true, FFG may have a most recent printing rule and reprint the same version with updated text/stats. Would suck to replace a legendary with a starter card, but would make some sense.

this made me laugh so hard i spit up milk What sane person would even consider this potentially a thing. Of all the rumors that ever were... in the HISTORY of rumors...this is the one you give credence too? I also heard they are gonna Errata Palp to be 3 dice character!

20 hours ago, Hennessy said:

Why the **** would anyone reasonable play Graveyard and Cheat in that deck. If you want to cycle thermals to win more against 3-4 character decks, good luck with it when playing against hard counter decks like ePalpatine. Everytime someone writes things like this during some complains regarding Poe/Maz, I really doubt he knows what is he writing about.

I understand that not everyone has complete palysets of both editions, but there is still TTS, where you can test various decks with access to all cards. Once you do this, you will find out, that teching against Poe in any incarnation is not so difficult and to be honest only issue is Thermal in case you play 3 or 4 character decks (and you still have to draw it). There are decks which can spike much more damage and I personally have experienced decks killing my Poe round 1 (by damage not Crime Lord).

Maybe its time to ask people to first mention the decklist they play before the discussion even begins.

@Tierdal: I am not going to share the decklist before Europeans but Bigulf have quite a good one to start with (I still have differences but he is closest).

I don't run Throne Room because it helps my hard counters, Emo Bros/ Vader Raider , more than it helps me. And Poe Maz already has consistancy. Graveyard is great and can ensure you have what you need.

Cheat however, is idiotic, too slow, and there is not enough room in your deck to make it work.

I think Frozen Wastes is also pretty nice as well but it also feels like it could screw me just as easily. I try not to play battlefields my opponent can hurt me to much with.

On 5/24/2017 at 5:03 AM, jtstrick84 said:

This is just oppressive. How the hell are Luke, Jyn, and Obi-Wan costed higher than Poe and how the hell is Maz only 11 points for elite? The consistency with which the deck does 10+ damage a turn is ridiculous. It's not even fun to play let alone play against but I guess people care more about winning than having fun and being creative.

Jyn's costing was completely fubar'd - there is no way she is a 20 pt character =/

Frozen Waste is the option you should play. First action is rolling Poe, than you opponent either claims to get your die (doing nothing this round), or you have second action to roll Maz and preferably resolve something. Since now, you can pretty safely claim anyway.

Frozen Waste helps heavily against some of the hardest counters you can run into, which are high HP characters with strong character dice and mitigation (Vader - Sith Lord, Luke Skywalker and that dreaded Palpatine) and once you have Fast Hands you can effectively claim even as your second action in turn. There are some other cards, which most f the players do not paly in Poe/Maz and they really should, but Frozen Waste is the most obvious one.

And yes, I know that Hyperloops released video Poe/Maz vs. Palpatine, but that Palpatine deck was the biggest junk I have ever seen probably, so this really does not count as proof of anything. Once Bobby runs into neated Palpatine deck, he will understand why Throne Room is bad idea.

5 hours ago, Hennessy said:

Frozen Waste is the option you should play. First action is rolling Poe, than you opponent either claims to get your die (doing nothing this round), or you have second action to roll Maz and preferably resolve something. Since now, you can pretty safely claim anyway.

Frozen Waste helps heavily against some of the hardest counters you can run into, which are high HP characters with strong character dice and mitigation (Vader - Sith Lord, Luke Skywalker and that dreaded Palpatine) and once you have Fast Hands you can effectively claim even as your second action in turn. There are some other cards, which most f the players do not paly in Poe/Maz and they really should, but Frozen Waste is the most obvious one.

And yes, I know that Hyperloops released video Poe/Maz vs. Palpatine, but that Palpatine deck was the biggest junk I have ever seen probably, so this really does not count as proof of anything. Once Bobby runs into neated Palpatine deck, he will understand why Throne Room is bad idea.

Remember that time the whole community was afraid of the bad version of the ePoe/eMaz deck? I mostly don't want to increase awareness about the Frozen Waste vs. Throne Room mistake everyone is making because I feel like once people figure it out, the crying will intensify.

I still do not think Poe/Maz is broken, its just Tier 1. I enjoyed winning with Vaider / Raider yesterday on 9 man tournament stomping through everything with Fast Hands, 8 melee upgrades and 20 support/events with cost 0-1 People really should start to play defensive cards again. Even in Poe/Maz you just can not play a deck with 20HP and 4 mitigation cards (one of them requiring battlefield control and second yellow character) otherwise it will look like the match on the new StarkillerBase video.

19 hours ago, Hennessy said:

Frozen Waste is the option you should play. First action is rolling Poe, than you opponent either claims to get your die (doing nothing this round), or you have second action to roll Maz and preferably resolve something. Since now, you can pretty safely claim anyway.

Frozen Waste helps heavily against some of the hardest counters you can run into, which are high HP characters with strong character dice and mitigation (Vader - Sith Lord, Luke Skywalker and that dreaded Palpatine) and once you have Fast Hands you can effectively claim even as your second action in turn. There are some other cards, which most f the players do not paly in Poe/Maz and they really should, but Frozen Waste is the most obvious one.

And yes, I know that Hyperloops released video Poe/Maz vs. Palpatine, but that Palpatine deck was the biggest junk I have ever seen probably, so this really does not count as proof of anything. Once Bobby runs into neated Palpatine deck, he will understand why Throne Room is bad idea.

that palp deck was embarrassing as all hell...id be ashamed to have that on tape lol.

It's either time to rename the thread or adjust the conversation, methinks.

On 6/1/2017 at 1:53 AM, WonderWAAAGH said:

It's either time to rename the thread or adjust the conversation, methinks.

I agree. This is good discussion, but I'd really like to keep this thread dedicated to reporting Store Champ results. And since it's about to be the weekend, there will be many to report, so happy posting!

On 5/30/2017 at 11:27 AM, Hennessy said:

Why the **** would anyone reasonable play Graveyard and Cheat in that deck. If you want to cycle thermals to win more against 3-4 character decks, good luck with it when playing against hard counter decks like ePalpatine. Everytime someone writes things like this during some complains regarding Poe/Maz, I really doubt he knows what is he writing about.

I understand that not everyone has complete palysets of both editions, but there is still TTS, where you can test various decks with access to all cards. Once you do this, you will find out, that teching against Poe in any incarnation is not so difficult and to be honest only issue is Thermal in case you play 3 or 4 character decks (and you still have to draw it). There are decks which can spike much more damage and I personally have experienced decks killing my Poe round 1 (by damage not Crime Lord).

Maybe its time to ask people to first mention the decklist they play before the discussion even begins.

@Tierdal: I am not going to share the decklist before Europeans but Bigulf have quite a good one to start with (I still have differences but he is closest).

I don't get the ePalpatine hype, it's slow as hell and very unsteady, not to mention how it works poorly vs. decks with disrupts and Imperial Inspection. So it's a silver bullet. And vs. Poe/Maz - most blue removal costs something and you just can't do much against additional actions (like those Hit and Run turns where you acivate everything at once and resolve it). So whatever the chances, they are still in favor of Poe, except when resolving lucky rolls. Poe doesn't even care that much about that.

Poe is broken, whatever you else you claim. The question of battlefield choice or a particular build or upgrade is irrelevant, as even throwing "everything that seems good" in it makes it work better than 90% of the decks you can come up with.

4 hours ago, player996970 said:

I don't get the ePalpatine hype, it's slow as hell

Roll. Resolve. Claim. - not an unreasonable palp turn.

Yes it lacks fast hands and the ability to really cheat in actions, but force speed helps that somewhat. You're still only rolling one character.

ePalp slow? ... thats a new one on me.

2 hours ago, Stu35 said:

Roll. Resolve. Claim. - not an unreasonable palp turn.

Yes it lacks fast hands and the ability to really cheat in actions, but force speed helps that somewhat. You're still only rolling one character.

ePalp slow? ... thats a new one on me.

Actually quite unreasonable, as this happens only with perfect rolls, and you still have to play upgrades and use all that removal. Claiming doesn't do much by itself. The exception is Force Speed, but it takes a slot.

1 hour ago, player996970 said:

Actually quite unreasonable, as this happens only with perfect rolls, and you still have to play upgrades and use all that removal. Claiming doesn't do much by itself. The exception is Force Speed, but it takes a slot.

And no other deck has to play upgrades, manipulate dice or use removal?

Other decks have at least one more character to roll. Palp is already one action ahead when a turn starts.

Once again, where on earth do you get the idea palp is slow from?

Also - Palp doesn't necessarily need a perfect roll, his ability is pretty damned handy.

If you're going to define anything that isn't poe/maz or Rey + all the ambush upgrades as "slow" then yeah. Fine. Whatever.

Quote

If you're going to define anything that isn't poe/maz or Rey + all the ambush upgrades as "slow" then yeah. Fine. Whatever.

Well, yeah. Fast Hands decks, FN-2199 decks, anything with Maz, or Rey, anything with lots of Ambush, Jango decks, etc. I got it from playing it, my other deck is Jango/FN. Sure feels slow compared to it (as almost everything else).

His ability if great if he gets to resolve more than a single own die with damage. Or if he gets perfect specials on the upgrades.

Milsims

Melbourne Australia

3rd June 2017

Winner: Luke K running Poe/Rey

Top 4: Poe/Maz, Poe/Rey, ePalp, 2xStormTrooper+TIEpilot+Bala

The swarm list went 4-0 in Swiss

Emerald Knights

Burbank, CA, USA

June 3rd, 2017

37 Players

Winner: Tiny Grimes running Poe/Maz

Top 4: All Poe/Maz

(Some of this information is second hand as I left before the event finished, so if someone who watched top 4 corrects me I'll edit my post)

6/3 Critical Hit Games in St. Petersburg FL

22 players

Winner: ePalpatine (Ryan M)

Top4: ePalpatine, eBaze/Leia, ePoe/eMaz, eJango/eFN-2199