In the page 3 on the Rules Reference, explains the limitation of unique units when you build a list. The rule says:
" Each army can only include one unique unit for every 100 points" So, I understand that if I build a 180 points list I can only use 1 unique unit. If I want to use 2 unique units I must build a 200 points list.
What do you think?
I think it sounds like the game may go above 200 points eventually, otherwise why not just say 2 uniques for full play and 1 for half.
As for your question I would think it's a sort of bracket
[1-100] = 1 unique
[101-200] = 2 unique
[201-300] = whenever each faction gets a third hero?
54 minutes ago, Jukey said:I think it sounds like the game may go above 200 points eventually, otherwise why not just say 2 uniques for full play and 1 for half.
One thing is point limit (200 for a normal game) and another thing is your list points. No sense say 2 uniques for a full play. You can play 300 point limit games and then you can play 3 uniques units.
I supouse it will be what you say but I think that the actual rule goes to confusion.
I think it is in there because they know people will play with more points, not because Organized Play will use more points.
I agree that the point limit you are playing at decides the number of heroes, not the amount of points in your list. If you're playing a 200-point game, you could bring 2 heroes for 90 points. It would be a tough battle and a huge initiative bid, but it seems legal.
It specifies "unique units" and then also notes that "unique upgrades" do not count as long as they do not have the same name. So when they do release more heroes, you could potentially have all of them in a 200 pt force, but only two could be independent units. The rest would have to be included in another unit as a unique figure upgrade. This obviously would NOT allow you to have Ardus as a unique unit and also have him as an upgrade in a unit of spearmen. But you could have Ardus as an unique figure upgrade, and Ankaur and Farrenghast as independent units, all within a 200 pt force.
I think the major rationale is to prevent the overlap of more than two passive army abilities outside of a larger force. This would mean that if you would dare to build a 500 pt army, you could potentially have some crazy synergies of overlap that create some really wild force arrangements.
I think the thing to remember here is that RR Page 3 says "Each army can only include one unique unit for every 100 points. So, for a complete 200-point game , each army can include up to two unique units.". The emphasis is mine.
That reads that it's the points total for the game that's important, not points spent. So, in a 200 point game where you spend less than 200 points (199 points for example), you may still buy up to 2 uniques.
I believe it's 2 unique units per 100 pt limit . So you can play to 200 points, but only draft 198 points of stuff (to try to determine 1st player) and still be good to have 2 unique units. So no, I don't think you have to draft exactly 200 pts.
I found it. Point 86.2 of the reference rules says:
" An army can only include one unique unit for every 100 points allowed in the army."
So it's like this :
1-100=1 unique unit
101-200=2 unique units
45 minutes ago, Ywingscum said:So it's like this :
1-100=1 unique unit
101-200=2 unique units
Not exactly... each player must be permitted to take up to 200 points in order to get the second unique unit. If you wanted to play two unique units with 101 points, that would be fine. But you opponent will be allowed to bring up to 200 in that scenario.
Honestly, you really wouldn't want a game to allow more unique units than that... they're already such strong units as it is that they really affect the nature of the game.
So you would have:
1-199 = 1 unique unit
200-299 = 2 unique units
etc.
Edited by ElliphinoExactly as @Elliphino said, just remember, they say point game not point armylist
1 hour ago, Elliphino said:Not exactly... each player must be permitted to take up to 200 points in order to get the second unique unit. If you wanted to play two unique units with 101 points, that would be fine. But you opponent will be allowed to bring up to 200 in that scenario.
Honestly, you really wouldn't want a game to allow more unique units than that... they're already such strong units as it is that they really affect the nature of the game.
So you would have:
1-199 = 1 unique unit
200-299 = 2 unique units
etc.
This isn't correct.
If you are playing a 200 pt game you can have 2 unique units.
Just now, rowdyoctopus said:This isn't correct.
If you are playing a 200 pt game you can have 2 unique units.
It's how many points you're allowed to have, not how many you actually take. I think that's the core of the miscommunication.
1 hour ago, Elliphino said:1-199 = 1 unique unit
200-299 = 2 unique units
etc.
Let me point something out:
1-99: no unique characters allowed
100-199: 1
200-299: 2
I don't see anything that makes the 100 pts a threshold.
2 minutes ago, druchii7 said:Let me point something out:
1-99: no unique characters allowed
100-199: 1
200-299: 2
Yep... I'd agree with that and don't see a problem.
Two players might agree to play a 99 point game in order to prevent any characters from being used. Or they may say 199 point game in order to have a big game that only allows one character. We did this all the time in Warhammer 6th and 7th edition. We'd limit the game to 1999 points, or 2999 points in order to get a large game that was focused on rank and file units, rather than heroes and rare monsters.
But just to be clear, the unique limitation is based on points allowed, not on points taken. So if we said that we were playing a 100 point game, it would totally be legal for me to take : Ardus with Ancient Technique, 4 Reanimate Trays, 2 Archer Trays, and a Carrion Lancer, even though that list only adds up to 98 points.
1 minute ago, rowdyoctopus said:I don't see anything that makes the 100 pts a threshold.
It's this bit.
2 hours ago, Gorgias said:I found it. Point 86.2 of the reference rules says:
" An army can only include one unique unit for every 100 points allowed in the army."
It doesn't matter how many points you actuslly spend. It's the number of points that are allowed in the game that matter.
Yep it was only an appreciation, I've seen no games under 100 points except the introductory one.
Of course we stated before that we speak about game points (those agreed with the rival) and not armylist points.
Edited by druchii7
1 minute ago, druchii7 said:Yep it was only an appreciation, I've seen no games under 100 points except the introductory one.
Of course we stated before that we speak about game points (those agreed with the rival) and not armylist points.
Yeah, I actually don't think there's a real debate here. It's seems more like things are getting lost in translation from one post to the next.
30 minutes ago, WWHSD said:
It's this bit.
It doesn't matter how many points you actuslly spend. It's the number of points that are allowed in the game that matter.
My point is that I feel a fraction of 100 could still be counted as 100. But I'm probably pulling that from other games. Is there a precedence for fractions? I know as soon as a unit loses figures, it's points drop down the next highest point value.
3 minutes ago, rowdyoctopus said:My point is that I feel a fraction of 100 could still be counted as 100. But I'm probably pulling that from other games. Is there a precedence for fractions? I know as soon as a unit loses figures, it's points drop down the next highest point value.
It all depends on how you set the allowed points. If you set them at 150 or 175 then you could still only take 1.
But, if you want to play with more unique units than that and your opponent agrees, then have at it. It's your game, after all.
1 minute ago, Elliphino said:It all depends on how you set the allowed points. If you set them at 150 or 175 then you could still only take 1.
But, if you want to play with more unique units than that and your opponent agrees, then have at it. It's your game, after all.
No, I'm saying that I don't feel the rule is explicitly saying you need a 200 pt game to gain 2 unique units. When I read the rule, I can see it as saying any amount less than 100 counts as having a full 100.
I can see it go either way.
14 minutes ago, rowdyoctopus said:My point is that I feel a fraction of 100 could still be counted as 100. But I'm probably pulling that from other games. Is there a precedence for fractions? I know as soon as a unit loses figures, it's points drop down the next highest point value.
Two point values for games are mentioned in the rules. There's the standard game at 200 points and the skirmish game at 100.
If you are playing anything but 100 or 200 point games then you're already doing your own thing. For how many unique units to permit in a 180 or 250 point game it's going to be up to you and your opponent to decide.
21 minutes ago, WWHSD said:Two point values for games are mentioned in the rules. There's the standard game at 200 points and the skirmish game at 100.
If you are playing anything but 100 or 200 point games then you're already doing your own thing. For how many unique units to permit in a 180 or 250 point game it's going to be up to you and your opponent to decide.
I mean nothing in the rules says you must adhere to those values. I don't think it is unreasonable to want the rules to accommodate that flexibility.
Having said that, if they don't intend on the game ever being played outside of that scope that's fine. I don't feel any entitlement to an answer here.
It only came up because people in this thread brought up values outside of 100 and 200 on the nose.
Alright, so let's turn this to some fun speculation: Homebrew Team games ideas. What if a bunch of friends meet with their collection of one faction each, and then are randomly paired up. The pairs each use their chosen faction to build a 100 pt force, with a limit of one hero each, but count as a combined army that shares the army building passives. So a player with Lord Hawthorne paired with a player Ankaur Maro could use the special option (if the Ankaur player doesn't use it) to add a blighted Leonx Riders to his army, and then deploy them as a 3x1 instead of a 1x3 using Hawthorne's ability. I think this would be fun for casual tournaments. Spend the rest of the day working your way up the ladder with your combined force, shake hands at the end of the day and split the prizes. Next time get paired with someone completely different for a new challenge.