Just now, WWHSD said:

Nope. Read Ardus's surge ability again:

He lets you use ranged or melee surge abilities of allies as melee surges.

Healing Ardus just made my day.

Just now, WWHSD said:

Nope. Read Ardus's surge ability again:

He lets you use ranged or melee surge abilities of allies during melee attacks.

Interesting, though if Ardus is in 3 of him and Ardus is in melee, then the necromancer is getting Danger Close.

Just now, Waywardpaladin said:

Interesting, though if Ardus is in 3 of him and Ardus is in melee, then the necromancer is getting Danger Close.

With Ardus and presumably another unit blocking off LoS and and making him hard to get to, Maru should be safe enough staying at range 1-3 of Ardus.

Me want!

So Ankaur brings Daqan Heavy Crossbowmen, and Ardus taps their surge ability ...

1 minute ago, maxam said:

So Ankaur brings Daqan Heavy Crossbowmen, and Ardus taps their surge ability ...

And it looks like they can equip Combat Ingenuity since the rules specify that the faction of upgrades used match the army.

1 minute ago, maxam said:

So Ankaur brings Daqan Heavy Crossbowmen, and Ardus taps their surge ability ...

Depends. I think the Heavy Crossbowmen have unique surges so you wouldn't be able to use those.

3 minutes ago, Sulfurious said:

Depends. I think the Heavy Crossbowmen have unique surges so you wouldn't be able to use those.

Ah yes good point. If Ardus' card used the word 'surge' it would be up for debate, but as it uses the symbol there isn't.

In hindsight, I almost wonder if the Ardus/Ankaur combo is part of the reason the unique surge exists...

5 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

With Ardus and presumably another unit blocking off LoS and and making him hard to get to, Maru should be safe enough staying at range 1-3 of Ardus.

But if you're blocking LOS then you are missing out on HIS ranged attack, and he costs 40 points.

Just now, Waywardpaladin said:

But if you're blocking LOS then you are missing out on HIS ranged attack, and he costs 40 points.

You could give him Heartseeker, but yeah, that's expensive because you're adding a 10-point upgrade.

6 minutes ago, Sulfurious said:

Depends. I think the Heavy Crossbowmen have unique surges so you wouldn't be able to use those.

Combat Ingenuity prevents you from using it with Surge+ abilities.

Ardus with Sheild of Margath and Ardus' Fury
Maru with Duskblade and Regenerative Magic
Heavy Crossbowmen with Combat Ingenuity

Ardus becomes really, really scary.

6 minutes ago, maxam said:

Ah yes good point. If Ardus' card used the word 'surge' it would be up for debate, but as it uses the symbol there isn't.

In hindsight, I almost wonder if the Ardus/Ankaur combo is part of the reason the unique surge exists...

We'll have to wait for the actual rules on unique surges.

2 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Combat Ingenuity prevents you from using it with Surge+ abilities.

Ardus with Sheild of Margath and Ardus' Fury
Maru with Duskblade and Regenerative Magic
Heavy Crossbowmen with Combat Ingenuity

Ardus becomes really, really scary.

Hmm. New question then. Does the unit that Maru brings in from another faction count as being Waiqar and can then take Waiqar only upgrades?

Don't love it nor hate it.

He's got excellent damage modifiers. Good news, because I found his card a bit bad for such an expensive character.

Violent forces are almost compulsory. Any other way he might not attack when you need. With it you'll make at least 4 damage, best roll possible 12 damage.

30 minutes ago, Sherizaahd said:

So, if there are no Unstable runes, can Ankaur still use his ranged attack with 0 dice?

That's the worst point. Leads us to violent forces dependance.

Good points

• Very random : capable of carnage
• Brutal archers/reanimate units
• His " slaved " unit lets us a lot of interesting and filthy tactics. Golems , oathsworn cavalry, scions ... so temptating.
• Has violent forces, turning him on a reliable damage dealer and still able to grow enormous units.
• Ardus can copy his skills
• No specifications about his skill leads to brutal possible front lines .
• Brings the duskblade for ardus, a lot better than reaping blade.
• Brings true flexibility to our list configurations.
• Decent unit upgrade killer , as far as he gets an accuracy result
• Excelent damage modifiers , making him flexible on ranged attacks and decent on meele attacks.

Bad points

• Very random : can perform very poorly if he gets 0 unstable
• Fragile , specially right after using his special skill.
• Very unreliable unless he gets violent forces, which makes his special skill not so reliable, and very improbable to activate his skill.
• Weak in close combat without violent forces.
• No possibility to give him precission .
• The most expensive character as far as I can remember.
• Not too good core design , violent forces look clearly superior to regenerative magic, almost compulsory.

7 minutes ago, Sulfurious said:

Hmm. New question then. Does the unit that Maru brings in from another faction count as being Waiqar and can then take Waiqar only upgrades?

Per the rules as written, the upgrades that you use must match the faction of the army. Nothing is said regarding it needing to match the faction of the unit to which it is being equipped. I believe that they would be still retain their original faction. If you brought Heavy Crossbowmen, Maur couldn't add trays.

RRG, pg 20:
'88.7 Upgrade cards that have a faction icon can only be equipped in armies of that faction'

4 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Per the rules as written, the upgrades that you use must match the faction of the army. Nothing is said regarding it needing to match the faction of the unit to which it is being equipped.

RRG, pg 20:
'88.7 Upgrade cards that have a faction icon can only be equipped in armies of that faction'

Yep. I suspect someone will be along to dispute that though.

3 minutes ago, Sulfurious said:

Yep. I suspect someone will be along to dispute that though.

They already have when we had this discussion regarding Kari and her Latar i.

With FFG already having plans for out of faction units being used in an army, I would think that the rules that has upgrades match the army and not the unit was purposeful.

15 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Per the rules as written, the upgrades that you use must match the faction of the army. Nothing is said regarding it needing to match the faction of the unit to which it is being equipped. I believe that they would be still retain their original faction. If you brought Heavy Crossbowmen, Maur couldn't add trays.

RRG, pg 20:
'88.7 Upgrade cards that have a faction icon can only be equipped in armies of that faction'

A daqan unit is still a daqan unit if fielded on a waiqar force.

I think this guy brings a lot to the table, I also like his model. Should be interesting. I think I will be picking up this bad guy.

1 minute ago, Ywingscum said:

I think this guy brings a lot to the table, I also like his model. Should be interesting. I think I will be picking up this bad guy.

Yea, I really like the way the game is shaping up in general.

**** me, this guy is fairly terrifying.

Truth.

1 hour ago, WWHSD said:

Per the rules as written, the upgrades that you use must match the faction of the army. Nothing is said regarding it needing to match the faction of the unit to which it is being equipped. I believe that they would be still retain their original faction. If you brought Heavy Crossbowmen, Maur couldn't add trays.

RRG, pg 20:
'88.7 Upgrade cards that have a faction icon can only be equipped in armies of that faction'

I think it's something FFG should put in an FAQ (or even in a rule insert with the hero) to put the issue to rest. Page 3 of the rules reference actually states "some upgrade cards have a unit type or faction icon, denoting that these cards can only be equipped to a unit of the matching type in an army of the matching faction". I do suspect that FFG would state that having the only possible upgrades will be neutral upgrades only.

1 minute ago, Kubernes said:

I think it's something FFG should put in an FAQ (or even in a rule insert with the hero) to put the issue to rest. Page 3 of the rules reference actually states "some upgrade cards have a unit type or faction icon, denoting that these cards can only be equipped to a unit of the matching type in an army of the matching faction". I do suspect that FFG would state that having the only possible upgrades will be neutral upgrades only.

While putting it in a FAQ wouldn't hurt, I don't think it's needed.

That's two spots in the rules that indicate that it's the faction of the army that matters when equipping upgrades and nothing to the contrary.

8 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

While putting it in a FAQ wouldn't hurt, I don't think it's needed.

That's two spots in the rules that indicate that it's the faction of the army that matters when equipping upgrades and nothing to the contrary.

Not just the army faction, but the unit's faction too, from how I'm reading that part of the rules. If that unit doesn't, then neutrals only.