Callout to the pros here! What is the secret to getting washes to form crisp panel lines? Here's my latest attempt on the Shadowcaster, compared to the exceptionally clean original job:

The wash is GW's Nuln Oil over a base of Vallejo acrylics with a thin cover of Testor's Dullcote sprayed on before washing. I tried to pin wash but ended up needing to dab over most of the panel lines since the wash didn't want to pull in by itself. I've done a light pass with clear medium and a fine brush to clean up some of the overspill, but there are still plenty of erratic blobs.

Would an oil-based wash work better?

Should I try something like airbrush thinner? (I've tried adding dish detergent. Small amounts make no difference. More makes things worse.)

Is this normal, and I just need to paint the panels a whole second time to clean things up?

Do I just need steadier hands?

I dare say, one of the secrets to the FFG style wash is they probably slap it on and then effectively rub it off the surface (since their primary colour-coat is basically baked on), so their own overfill and spillage is immeditely cleaned up...

Personally, I'd thin with water, and perhaps even add a drop of actual paint pigment to it as well. You need to have it thin so it flows and settles, but keep the pigment density high (so its actually black, and not... grey... as you have it.) And don't feel too bad if you need to hit edges with colour to over-correct any spillage..

wash then recoat top area

An easy way to get nice panel lines is to use a Gundam Marker. They are very thin pens that make nice crisp panel lines very easy to do.

51 minutes ago, Farm Boy said:

An easy way to get nice panel lines is to use a Gundam Marker.

It's soooo easy to slip out of the track with these. :/

I believe FFGs manifacturer doesn't use acrylic washes, but something (people who actually have a clue correct me @Barry Harker I summon thee) enamel-based, which dries slower, can be wiped off with not much of an issue, and creeps further into recesses. The exact effect would in that case be rather tedious to reproduce at home because of long drying times.

Give it a wash with the Nuln Oil all over the panels. Let it dry. Then using something small & thin (like an old paint brush or even cotton buds for larger panels), you can remove the 'excess' Nuln Oil with Lahmian Medium. Simply moisten the tip of your brush or cotton bud (or whatever you're using) and then rub the tip on the center of the panels, working out towards the panel gaps. The Lahmian Medium will reactivate the Nuln Oil and the brush/bud will lift it off the surface, leaving only what you want behind.

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If I'm using washes, I lay down a basecoat of my main color, lay down a heavy coat of wash and leave to dry overnight. Then, I go back and paint the main color again, avoiding the recesses, then I apply highlights to raised areas of detail. It can be tedious with larger ship hulls, but it gives me dark shadows and good definition.

When you protect your paint, use a semi-gloss or gloss varnish then the wash. The gloss prevents the wash from"soaking in". Think of the difference between dropping water on a sheet of regular paper vs waxed paper. After the wash dries use a matt varnish to protect the completed paint job.

You can also try a Micro Pen from Sekura. I have one with a .005 tip.

The image on the right, looks like the panels aren't defined using washes but good ol' black, then a reapplication of the basecoat.

Try and look up blacklining tutorials.

6 minutes ago, Keffisch said:

The image on the right, looks like the panels aren't defined using washes but good ol' black, then a reapplication of the basecoat.

Try and look up blacklining tutorials.

Nope, that's an official paintjob. They're done with washes.

And the official wash is definitely acrylic-based because it will come off in a bath of alcohol and some scrubbing - the main paint job not so much, completely baked on. I'm just doing some ARCs, and even 24h in 99.9 % isopropanol will do nothing to that factory paint...

16 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

I believe FFGs manifacturer doesn't use acrylic washes, but something (people who actually have a clue correct me @Barry Harker I summon thee) enamel-based, which dries slower, can be wiped off with not much of an issue, and creeps further into recesses. The exact effect would in that case be rather tedious to reproduce at home because of long drying times.

Yes, They are Acrylic.

Infact Industry in general has moved over to acrylic paint since the big change in paint safety rules in 2008.

From your car you drive to the toys for your kids, to house hold items you use.

Enamel base paint is a more hard wearing paint, but in the next few years some will be slowly phased out due to the Hazardous chemicals involved

in the manufacturing process.

From my Engineering days and now working in the Film Industry......I use many different specialised paints, some very hazardous !

and some I cant get anymore.

Acrylic is a safe option and water based.......but bloody annoying to use when the weather is cold !

I'm Repainting my Rice Rocket soon, "car" and i'm going to use hard wearing nasty isocyanate two pack paint......contains cyanide !

lethal but fantastic hard wearing paint, " I have to sign a special form that i'm using it for commercial purposes only and will dispose of any chemicals ethically " I hate painting cars and bikes in acrylic.......its to soft and have to lacquer everything.

But that's the way Industry is going, in all respects. Safety first........with the help of modern technology.

So FFG will use what is easy and effective.

Acrylic washes.

On a note about using washes, when I use them, I coat the whole model in the acrylic wash keeping the whole thing wet....constantly

moving the brush around, and then with a pot of water and a few sheets of kitchen towel.

I firstly thin the wash in areas that are too heavy by brushing fresh water over the heavy muddy areas of the wash, to control it I then keep drying the brush on the paper towel, and drawing the water and oil up with the brush.

that way you can control how much sits in the panels.

Wiping with a clean cotton bud and cleaner " I use 3M surface cleaner" is another clean up method,

this is a model armour trick, wipe away the acrylic wash by re-activating it.

but like anything.

It takes time and patience to learn and get the hang of it.

Good luck and all the best,

Barry.

7 hours ago, Barry Harker said:

Yes, They are Acrylic.

Infact Industry in general has moved over to acrylic paint since the big change in paint safety rules in 2008.

From your car you drive to the toys for your kids, to house hold items you use.

Enamel base paint is a more hard wearing paint, but in the next few years some will be slowly phased out due to the Hazardous chemicals involved

in the manufacturing process.

From my Engineering days and now working in the Film Industry......I use many different specialised paints, some very hazardous !

and some I cant get anymore.

Acrylic is a safe option and water based.......but bloody annoying to use when the weather is cold !

I'm Repainting my Rice Rocket soon, "car" and i'm going to use hard wearing nasty isocyanate two pack paint......contains cyanide !

lethal but fantastic hard wearing paint, " I have to sign a special form that i'm using it for commercial purposes only and will dispose of any chemicals ethically " I hate painting cars and bikes in acrylic.......its to soft and have to lacquer everything.

But that's the way Industry is going, in all respects. Safety first........with the help of modern technology.

So FFG will use what is easy and effective.

Acrylic washes.

On a note about using washes, when I use them, I coat the whole model in the acrylic wash keeping the whole thing wet....constantly

moving the brush around, and then with a pot of water and a few sheets of kitchen towel.

I firstly thin the wash in areas that are too heavy by brushing fresh water over the heavy muddy areas of the wash, to control it I then keep drying the brush on the paper towel, and drawing the water and oil up with the brush.

that way you can control how much sits in the panels.

Wiping with a clean cotton bud and cleaner " I use 3M surface cleaner" is another clean up method,

this is a model armour trick, wipe away the acrylic wash by re-activating it.

but like anything.

It takes time and patience to learn and get the hang of it.

Good luck and all the best,

Barry.

Barry, you're right about the industry moving away from "dangerous" paints. Automotive paints stores were abundant in my area as late as ten or 15 years ago. You could walk in off the street, buy everything you needed to repaint your car in the garage, except the common sense to keep from killing yourself. There's at least one account of a DIYer killing himself with a catalyzed aircraft paint. Hey, if it's good on airplanes it should be great on a car! Yeah, not so much.

With the greening of the industry there are some nifty new processes coming out. One that I saw about 30 years ago used a special paint gun and a low VOC epoxy paint and high voltage. Think a static grass applicator but for paint. The crew came in on a Friday night to repaint file cabinets to match the other new office furniture. Set the cabinets on tarps, hooked up the electrode and proceeded to paint. Came back the next night to put everything back in place. Zero over spray and very little odor. Really slick!

On 5/15/2017 at 1:02 PM, Quarrel said:

Callout to the pros here! What is the secret to getting washes to form crisp panel lines? Here's my latest attempt on the Shadowcaster, compared to the exceptionally clean original job:

The wash is GW's Nuln Oil over a base of Vallejo acrylics with a thin cover of Testor's Dullcote sprayed on before washing. I tried to pin wash but ended up needing to dab over most of the panel lines since the wash didn't want to pull in by itself. I've done a light pass with clear medium and a fine brush to clean up some of the overspill, but there are still plenty of erratic blobs.

Would an oil-based wash work better?

Should I try something like airbrush thinner? (I've tried adding dish detergent. Small amounts make no difference. More makes things worse.)

Is this normal, and I just need to paint the panels a whole second time to clean things up?

Do I just need steadier hands?

Ran across this YouTube Video. It answers a ot of your questions.

13 hours ago, Stoneface said:

Ran across this YouTube Video. It answers a ot of your questions.

The link doesn't go to YouTube if you click it. It's a redirect.

Manual copy/paste works fine.

4 hours ago, Quarrel said:

DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK. It redirects to a malware site.

Are you sure? I tested it before I pasted it into the message.

It's not a malware site, it's the login for what used to be Time Warner Cable. Don't know how that got effed up.

On 5/15/2017 at 2:02 PM, Quarrel said:

Callout to the pros here! What is the secret to getting washes to form crisp panel lines? Here's my latest attempt on the Shadowcaster, compared to the exceptionally clean original job:

The wash is GW's Nuln Oil over a base of Vallejo acrylics with a thin cover of Testor's Dullcote sprayed on before washing. I tried to pin wash but ended up needing to dab over most of the panel lines since the wash didn't want to pull in by itself. I've done a light pass with clear medium and a fine brush to clean up some of the overspill, but there are still plenty of erratic blobs.

Would an oil-based wash work better?

Should I try something like airbrush thinner? (I've tried adding dish detergent. Small amounts make no difference. More makes things worse.)

Is this normal, and I just need to paint the panels a whole second time to clean things up?

Do I just need steadier hands?

Don't know how I screwed up a cut and paste but I did.

Go to YouTube and type in "luke towan adding realistic details" in the search. Look for the entry on vehicles.

5 hours ago, Stoneface said:

Are you sure? I tested it before I pasted it into the message.

It's not a malware site, it's the login for what used to be Time Warner Cable. Don't know how that got effed up.

Can you go back and edit it?

25 minutes ago, Quarrel said:

Can you go back and edit it?

I can't from the kindle. If you give me your email address I can send the link right from YouTube. Or later on when I can get to the computer I can try another cut and paste.

7 hours ago, Stoneface said:

I can't from the kindle. If you give me your email address I can send the link right from YouTube. Or later on when I can get to the computer I can try another cut and paste.

The link that shows in the message is correct. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJmh6BOeeSo) The imbedded URL that the forum actually sends you to contains something completely different, though.

1 hour ago, Quarrel said:

The link that shows in the message is correct. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJmh6BOeeSo) The imbedded URL that the forum actually sends you to contains something completely different, though.

I just tapped the link and it sent me to the right place. Have you tried this link?

4 hours ago, Stoneface said:

I just tapped the link and it sent me to the right place. Have you tried this link?

Yes. The one in my post works. The one in yours doesn't. (I typed it fresh and didn't copy/paste.)

4 hours ago, Quarrel said:

Yes. The one in my post works. The one in yours doesn't. (I typed it fresh and didn't copy/paste.)

I have no idea what happened. When I found that video, I emailed it to the computer (from the kindle) so I could paste it into this thread. The Kindle has some, oddities, that I have to work around.

Anyhow, I hope that video answers some of your questions about clearing up panel lines. The only thing I would add is this. Instead of using black to outline panels consider using a darker base color. For white, use a gray as an example. This allows the panel detail to stand out without being too stark a contrast.

@Stoneface Great video & series of videos, thanks!