Just now, Biophysical said:Here's the thing, only one of those Scimitars is likely to be targeted each turn. That one spends its Focus on defense and the other 4 spend it on attack.
Only one of those scimitars profits from the LF in that case as well. Though split fire is not that uncommon. Though I give you that you at least can spend the focus first on defense before you need to shoot, because the PS is just so low.
2 hours ago, kris40k said:I've had plenty of games where Autothusters never kicked in. I wouldn't write them off, either.
As have I, but the value that Autothrusters gives you is WAY more than Lightweight Frame. Autothrusters give you a 5/8 chance at getting an evade on a single die but Lightweight Frame only gives you a 2/8 chance on a single die.
But this comparison doesn't actually matter in practice because there is no ship currently that has a choice to equip autothrusters or lightweight frame (except the punisher...). The debate is whether it is worth 2 points to roll an additional green die on a 2 agility ship.
I have seen success when paired with Palpatine or Fleet Officer or Hux since they augment the additional die rolled.
14 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:Only one of those scimitars profits from the LF in that case as well. Though split fire is not that uncommon. Though I give you that you at least can spend the focus first on defense before you need to shoot, because the PS is just so low.
True, and you can always decide not to spend a defensive Focus if you've got a good shot. You've no shortage of hit points.
Dropping the LWF for the 5-bomber swarm is a pretty reasonable choice, I think. It opens up points for bombs. I was thinking more if there were 2-3 bombers for LWF. Regardless, I think the real advantage of the LWF is to put off dying until one more attack, not putting up a strong defensive wall. Look at the Worlds winning list. 2 4-hit attacks stand a pretty good chance of killing a 6hp hull behind 2 AGI with a Focus in defense. All it takes is 2 blanks out of 4 to be killed, (or eyeballs as well if the Focus got spent). With 3 AGI, the bomber probably survives if it has a Focus. If all your ships have that defense, it adds up over time, leaving more and more ships alive to run away or block or even do shooting damage.
1 hour ago, spartan1128 said:As have I, but the value that Autothrusters gives you is WAY more than Lightweight Frame. Autothrusters give you a 5/8 chance at getting an evade on a single die but Lightweight Frame only gives you a 2/8 chance on a single die.
But this comparison doesn't actually matter in practice because there is no ship currently that has a choice to equip autothrusters or lightweight frame (except the punisher...). The debate is whether it is worth 2 points to roll an additional green die on a 2 agility ship.
I have seen success when paired with Palpatine or Fleet Officer or Hux since they augment the additional die rolled.
I agree with something that can pass Focus, it becomes much more useful.
I was bringing up AT as something that was of comparable cost and function that has completely failed to function over many games, yet still is a known good value, not something that needed to be a direct choice between, so that only Punishers can use both isn't really an issue. The question is," Do you get 2pts value out of LWF?"
Well, what are two points worth? /shrug, AT is a good comparison as a 2pts defensive Modification.
Also, the ability to add an additional possible Evade is not something to completely ignore. Typically, you could value it as a conditional Focus for defense, as 2 Agility + Focus is pretty close to 3 Agility naked, if I remember my math. I think that's worth 2 pts. However, LWF does add the outlier value of being able to roll 3 Evades on 2 Agility, which AT does not. AT is more dependable though.
57 minutes ago, kris40k said:I agree with something that can pass Focus, it becomes much more useful.
I was bringing up AT as something that was of comparable cost and function that has completely failed to function over many games, yet still is a known good value, not something that needed to be a direct choice between, so that only Punishers can use both isn't really an issue. The question is," Do you get 2pts value out of LWF?"
Well, what are two points worth? /shrug, AT is a good comparison as a 2pts defensive Modification.
Also, the ability to add an additional possible Evade is not something to completely ignore. Typically, you could value it as a conditional Focus for defense, as 2 Agility + Focus is pretty close to 3 Agility naked, if I remember my math. I think that's worth 2 pts. However, LWF does add the outlier value of being able to roll 3 Evades on 2 Agility, which AT does not. AT is more dependable though.
Fair points, I agree. I think what has bitten me is the dependability part of the argument. To go 4 games with 2 LWFs without any pay off is probably a statistical anomaly but it has left a soured view of the card in my mind. I have played autothrusters extensively ever since they were released and have not had anywhere near that level of results.
1 hour ago, kris40k said:Typically, you could value it as a conditional Focus for defense, as 2 Agility + Focus is pretty close to 3 Agility naked, if I remember my math.
3 hits vs 2 agi = Expected Damage 2.25
3 hits vs 2 agi with focus = Expected Damage 1.75
3 hits vs 3 agi = Expected Damage 1.875
3 hits vs 3 agi with focus = Expected Damage 1.125
So a focus saves you .5 damage on two dice, while a naked third dice has only 80% effect of that focus token, while together they are 220% of just the focus token as defensive buff. You definitely want the focus synergie on 3 dice ships, fickle green dice become a lot less fickle once you have a fist full of them AND focus tokens.
13 hours ago, Rogue_Group1 said:Just give your bombers proton torpedoes, or, better yet, don't play imps and just put down your tie fighters and use the HotR expansion.
My bombers need bombs. I'll never put away the ties. I'll never abandon my post. There are no heroes in the resistance. Only rebel scum.