What happened is that they did very well to start with, and when Crackshot came out they managed to hold on against the increasingly tough opponent ships. Their greatest stunt was that they were a pair of ships that threw 4-die attacks on offense, with a solid defense, with a large-based hull that actually cared about its arcs.

Then Jumpmasters showed up, and the deadeye torpboat that came with it was a trio of ships that threw 4-die attacks on offense, with a solid defense, on a large-based hull that actually cared about its arcs.

They're not the same, no, but the skills for one translate rather well to the other. And things just really haven't recovered since. They're probably not as bad any more, but... it's like flying a 7-8 ship TIE swarm. It's not that you can't , but it's only grown tougher as time has gone by, so only the dedicated fans are bothering.

Haven't flown them for a very long time, but I would give this a try:

IGB+IGC Symmetric build with Expertise + FCS + HLC + Burnout SLAM

Actions are solely for defensive measures to compensate for lack of Autothrusters. Burnout SLAM when things look Ugly. speed 3 should allow you to get out of turret range + Sloop in one fel swoop and re-engage in the next round with 3 greens + boost + evade.

1 hour ago, Reiver said:

What happened is that they did very well to start with, and when Crackshot came out they managed to hold on against the increasingly tough opponent ships. Their greatest stunt was that they were a pair of ships that threw 4-die attacks on offense, with a solid defense, with a large-based hull that actually cared about its arcs.

Then Jumpmasters showed up, and the deadeye torpboat that came with it was a trio of ships that threw 4-die attacks on offense, with a solid defense, on a large-based hull that actually cared about its arcs.

Pretty much this.

In fact, our new World champion's list is a perfect example of why BroBots aren't relevant anymore. Why fly two PS6 fixed-arc ships with 4-dice offence and only the one very slow source of action economy when you can fly two PS9 turreted ships with 4-dice offence that can get up to 5 actions in a round? And this is before we even get into the outrageously superior dial on the Jumpmaster.

13 hours ago, arkhamssaber said:

I love brobots. They're just really hard to fly right now. You can't afford to make any mistakes.

This^^ People want easy street. PWT ftw.

1 hour ago, DR4CO said:

Pretty much this.

In fact, our new World champion's list is a perfect example of why BroBots aren't relevant anymore. Why fly two PS6 fixed-arc ships with 4-dice offence and only the one very slow source of action economy when you can fly two PS9 turreted ships with 4-dice offence that can get up to 5 actions in a round? And this is before we even get into the outrageously superior dial on the Jumpmaster.

Exactly, Dengar gives you double tap as well, you have PWT to counter slamming Miranda's, white sloops instead of red, and PS9's to boot. No reason to take Brobots, really, unless you want a challenge.

Dengar/Tel are the new bro's.

Gunner is the big thing that bros get that Dengar/Tel don't, of course.

I've recently tried to revisit them but sadly failed. PWTs were killing me (got to face Rey and RAC).

Besides, brobots were always a semi alpha list. If you could take one ship out in the initial pass, you were fine. If you failed, their large base combined with lack of turret made it hard to concentrate fire once more, especially against a nimble opponent. What changed is that ships tend to be tougher than at the era of Soontir and brobots' firepower is no longer as impressive as it used to be. As a result getting that initial kill is far harder.

4 hours ago, Lightrock said:

I've recently tried to revisit them but sadly failed. PWTs were killing me (got to face Rey and RAC).

Besides, brobots were always a semi alpha list. If you could take one ship out in the initial pass, you were fine. If you failed, their large base combined with lack of turret made it hard to concentrate fire once more, especially against a nimble opponent. What changed is that ships tend to be tougher than at the era of Soontir and brobots' firepower is no longer as impressive as it used to be. As a result getting that initial kill is far harder.

Yeah, if you face KyloRAC, it's basically game over... My last game vs the bots was with RAC(Kylo)+Quickdraw. Removing 2 attacks in a game vs a 2 ships build is painful.

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

Yeah, if you face KyloRAC, it's basically game over... My last game vs the bots was with RAC(Kylo)+Quickdraw. Removing 2 attacks in a game vs a 2 ships build is painful.

I don't see this, I just played against a Predator RACLO (better odds of hitting than VI) with Brobots recently and he had a very hard time hitting. By the time the hits got through to Blind one of them his wingman was down and the Bots were behind RAC. I almost always take Evade actions or C's Boost + Evade. Add AT and those odds to hit are low outside arc or range 1.

I also didn't have any problems with RAC/Kylo the last time I broke out Brobots. As other people have mentioned, it's a combination of factors:

(1) Red-dice creep. Brobots can do okay against 3, or even 4, dice, but once they're subjected to 5-die attacks, they just melt. 8 HP behind AGI-3 might get lucky and last a little while, or it might go in two attacks. In a tournament situation, you're likely to experience at least one instance of the latter, and in a big tournament, probably two.

(2) Action economy creep. The only ways for Brobots to get more than one combat action are FCS and Mindlink. FCS is great, but you have to keep guns on the same target, and an Aggressor that flies predictably dies predictable. You also have to give up AdvS, which is probably the single best upgrade you can put on Brobots behind HLC. Mindlink is great, but not on two ships. (There's also PTL, but competitive Brobots players know that PTL is suboptimal.)

(3) Mines. It's possible to work around the Large base when maneuvering, and even use it in your favor against aces, but it's a flat-out massive detriment against mines. At Fresno Regionals, I beat a double-Warden+ list, but it was a very, very close game, and I had to fly my @ss off.

All in all, Brobots are the single most illustrative example of power-creep in X-Wing. When the Aggressor was released, the call-and-response was "Aggressor?" "bulls#!+!" It was crazy powerful. Now? It's ... enh, okay.

They made the top 32 at Worlds. That's not too shabby. In my opinion, they were strong at release. If you flew Scum, you could fly four warthogs or you could fly Brobots; that was about it. But even then, I remember most folks calling them Tier 1.5; competitive, but not overpowered. Crackshot gave them a boost, but ever since, they've slowly gone by the wayside, in many ways for the same reasons that the other aces out there have died off (bombs and control and what not).

On the other hand, though, they also have the problem of tough competition. If you're flying Scum, you have access to the three best ships in the game: JumpMaster, Fang, and Shadowcaster. Why fly an IG when you could fly one of those? Why fly an IG when you could run into one of those?

I'm pretty sure that HLC BroBots would chew JM5K'S fast. But they are bit vulnerables for ordanance like everything in game. I really would appreciate if FFG would come up with some type of an flares, kinda anti-chimps!

People should try out maybe some bombs with bots etc shenanigans!

They're still pretty potent but the meta changed and the ability to fling out fully modded four dice attacks with gunner is way overkill with Imperial Acewing on the decline. They have other strengths but there is a certain reluctance to experiment outside the traditional blueprint, i've still never seen either of the other two pilots fielded, and scum also has a lot more alternatives now. Additionally as costly agility focused large based ships without fancy arcs they are probably the single most vulnerable ship when it comes to mines, particularly conner nets.

There are a lot of factors going into it, but the most important one is dice.

As a veteran Brobots player, the sad truth about the list is that they live and die by their ability to consistently roll two paint on their green dice. I've seen a lot of players win tournaments with them, but few of them returned to the top tables (myself included, in a fairly extreme example- a month after going 6-3 at 2015 Endor Open with 2/3 of my losses in a mirror matchup I bricked the regionals with a 0-5 score).

Compared to that, the jm5k and Shadow Caster are simply much more cosistent. (The Fang fighter is used because it synergises with them well and is fairly cheap.)

4 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

(There's also PTL, but competitive Brobots players know that PTL is suboptimal.)

You're having a laugh, right?

The first Scum list to ever win a National Championship was a PTL/AS Double Aggressor squad.

29 minutes ago, jesper_h said:

You're having a laugh, right?

The first Scum list to ever win a National Championship was a PTL/AS Double Aggressor squad.

Long ago yes. I wouldn't dare use PTL now.

16 minutes ago, arkhamssaber said:

Long ago yes. I wouldn't dare use PTL now.

Exactly. PTL worked fine, when Aggressor were, hands down, the best chassis you could fly. Nowadays, you fly PTL, you might as well hand-cuff yourself.

16 hours ago, Lightrock said:

I've recently tried to revisit them but sadly failed. PWTs were killing me (got to face Rey and RAC).

Besides, brobots were always a semi alpha list. If you could take one ship out in the initial pass, you were fine. If you failed, their large base combined with lack of turret made it hard to concentrate fire once more, especially against a nimble opponent. What changed is that ships tend to be tougher than at the era of Soontir and brobots' firepower is no longer as impressive as it used to be. As a result getting that initial kill is far harder.

Taking one ship out with an FCS+Gunner HLC combo was a lot easier when your common targets were high agility aces or modest-durability generics.

Jumpmasters don't even need their greens to shrug off 8 hits and still shoot back, which... doesn't help.

Biggs (especially with R4-D6) can really mess with the first shooting round of Brobots. Biggs has always been around but when you end up with a Miranda with bombs against one of your bots you are looking at a lost game, especially with the newer MoV rules.

I always loved playing vs JM5Ks with Brobots. Go ahead fire your Torp at my 3 die AT with Evade and Focus. On a perfect roll for my opponent and an average roll for me I take ZERO damage. Maybe 1 damage on a bad roll. After those initial torps it's cake to kill off a 2D attack with 3AG + AT (even if it takes a while).

For me it has always been Aces and stress that are tough. I'm working on a PTL/AS with Cluster Mines and Crane. That makes lower HP aces less scary. Still one of my all time favorites to fly.