9 hours ago, Isawa Tasatu said:

That's not garbage to some of us......

You're entitled to your opinion. Which I abhor with the fire of a thousand suns.

9 hours ago, Isawa Tasatu said:

particularly the belief that blood magic could be purified again. Foolish as that may seem to others. It is our roots.

I've said it a thousand times- of ALL clans, in the post-"real shugenja" Rokugan, the Phoenix should be the LEAST inclined to maho- because the appeal of maho is that anyone can learn it.

A clan whose clout is built around their heavy number of legitimate shugenja should be falling over themselves to keep a lid on anything that might threaten that edge.

Plus... maho's just frickin' boring. "I cut myself or someone else to bribe evil spirits to do a Thing" is just dumb compared to "I speak to the underlying tapestry of the universe to persuade it to alter in some fashion."

5 minutes ago, Gaffa said:

Dynasty packs are going to be, almost certainly:

60 cards, at a full playset of 3 copies of 20 new cards. So, 20 new cards.

2 new cards per clan eat up 14 slots.

There will be 3-4 new neutral cards for up to, say, 17-18 slots.

Then each clan will take turns being featured in the release schedule. They'll get +1 (maybe even +2) card slots. Rarely, a clan might be reduced to only 1 card slot in a pack if they got a whole bunch of theirs early. That will take care of the final slots.

So each month your clan will get, on average, 2 new cards to play around with.

Sounds good. I'm just thinking it'd be interesting to do a Dynasty pack that is just a splash of minor clans to be put into conflict decks. Or minor clans being specific allies to great clans for dynasty decks. Though without knowing their planned release schedule, it's hard to ask them to do that at the expense of the great clans.

Maybe a Minor clan deluxe box instead.

23 minutes ago, Gaffa said:

Dynasty packs are going to be, almost certainly:

60 cards, at a full playset of 3 copies of 20 new cards. So, 20 new cards.

2 new cards per clan eat up 14 slots.

There will be 3-4 new neutral cards for up to, say, 17-18 slots.

Then each clan will take turns being featured in the release schedule. They'll get +1 (maybe even +2) card slots. Rarely, a clan might be reduced to only 1 card slot in a pack if they got a whole bunch of theirs early. That will take care of the final slots.

So each month your clan will get, on average, 2 new cards to play around with.

If the current guesses for Provinces deckbuilding restrictions (1 per ring) are correct, we could also have packs with more than 20 different cards, with only 1 copy of each new Province. And, even if I somehow doubt we'll see them in Dynasty packs, Strongholds would also come with only 1 copy.

5 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

...

Maybe a Minor clan deluxe box instead.

I agree.

A Minor Clan deluxe set is the most likely candidate for releasing the oft spoken Mantis, Spider and so on.

The question then becomes; How many Dynasty sets will FFG go through before releasing their next Deluxe set?

Will there be 6 Dynasty packs in a given Dynasty set? (I believe 6 is the common number by FFG, correct?)

Likely six, maybe 12. They like to have cycles of six packs, and the first box set will likely hit after the first or second cycle.

13 minutes ago, LordBlunt said:

I agree.

A Minor Clan deluxe set is the most likely candidate for releasing the oft spoken Mantis, Spider and so on.

The question then becomes; How many Dynasty sets will FFG go through before releasing their next Deluxe set?

Will there be 6 Dynasty packs in a given Dynasty set? (I believe 6 is the common number by FFG, correct?)

I blame personal experience, but I never want Spider back. Ever.

Spider Clan is not happening. It took 12+ years of story development, including a generational time gap, for the circumstances behind the Spider to come about. Daigotsu had been a character for about 7 of those. Even if FFG radically changes events to make something like the Spider spring up, would it really be the Spider clan without the Daigotsu plot-line to build up to it? A playable Shadowlands faction is more likely, but at best it's probably 2 or 3 years down the line. I would expect to see it as a multi-player gimmick than as a true playable faction.

Mantis, or (more accurately) something resembling Yoritomo's Alliance, could happen. However, the original circumstances behind an alliance of minor clans springing up and not getting immediately snuffed out involved a war-and-plague torn Empire where the Great Clans couldn't pay attention to the revolt. Unless things somehow reach that state very, very quickly in the new timeline, which would be an odd way to introduce the setting, Yoritomo's Alliance is again probably multiple years away at best. Mantis and minor clan cards could definitely see print, and maybe even get their own template. I think that's the best former Mantis players can hope for.

Toturi is an announced character, so Toturi's Army could happen

But I'm not counting on it.

5 minutes ago, williamobrien said:

Spider Clan is not happening. It took 12+ years of story development, including a generational time gap, for the circumstances behind the Spider to come about.

Or a bunch of undead samurai with the Spider mon could just show up in the Shadowlands to give the Crab trouble, making idel comments like, "we've been waiting for centuries for the time to be right, and now we strike!" Or maybe FFG will come up with something semi-original instead of my derivative idea developed in the span of five seconds.

The Spider as they were are almost certainly not happening. That doesn't mean the Spider Clan won't turn up in some fashion.

Again, would that really be "The Spider Clan"? Or just a forced attempt to introduce old iconography? There's no real reason to call a faction of undead the Spider Clan other than to pop the old player base. Why not call it "The Snake Clan" or something? Would Spider players really feel it's the same?

If Toturi suddenly formed a rebel army to try to take over the empire, and it was a playable faction called "Toturi's Army", I wouldn't exactly be jumping for joy.

It's more about all that art FFG bought with Spider mons all over it...

Well, we call it the Spider Clan for now from lack of an "official" name. And taking the same name for the same "kind" of faction would be a nod to the old game that wouldn't cost anything.

However, if FFG prefer to name it the Platypus Clan, even though I wouldn't really understand the need to change the name, as long as they keep most of the core concepts, it would not cause an uproar (well, not sure the Platypus would be really welcome as a symbol but still ).

However, wasn't Fu Leng matched with the spider iconography even before the initial birth of the Spider Clan?

15 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

It's more about all that art FFG bought with Spider mons all over it...

Photoshop is Magic.

9 minutes ago, KerenRhys said:

Well, we call it the Spider Clan for now from lack of an "official" name.

We already have an arachnid. A new animal, representing a new gameplay approach, would be better. Forget Toturi's Friends and give the wolf to them.

29 minutes ago, KerenRhys said:

However, wasn't Fu Leng matched with the spider iconography even before the initial birth of the Spider Clan?

I think it's the other way around, isn't it? What I remember is that the old shadowlands mon was the upper side of Fu Leng's head. Then along came the Spider and their mon incorporates the old desing in the upper half of the spider.

4 hours ago, williamobrien said:

Again, would that really be "The Spider Clan"? Or just a forced attempt to introduce old iconography? There's no real reason to call a faction of undead the Spider Clan other than to pop the old player base. Why not call it "The Snake Clan" or something? Would Spider players really feel it's the same?

If Toturi suddenly formed a rebel army to try to take over the empire, and it was a playable faction called "Toturi's Army", I wouldn't exactly be jumping for joy.

Since the Chuda family of the Spider were originally Snake clan I think that this would be a very plausible way to get to 'something like the Spider'.

For the Dragon clan I would like to see the following personalities:

1. Togashi Mitsu

2. Togashi Yoshi

3. Mirumoto Hitomi

4. Mirumoto Sukune

5. Agasha Tamori

I didn't list Yokuni as he's already been mentioned in one of their articles.

3 hours ago, Chron73 said:

For the Dragon clan I would like to see the following personalities:

1. Togashi Mitsu

2. Togashi Yoshi

3. Mirumoto Hitomi

4. Mirumoto Sukune

5. Agasha Tamori

I didn't list Yokuni as he's already been mentioned in one of their articles.

Some good ones there!

21 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Honestly?

This was never "my" era and I'm not at all attached to the memory of any of the characters from this period except maybe Tadaka- and it's possible that the Thunders aren't a thing this time around, so... but still. I loved his look. And lending the Crab a hand.

Never cared for Tsuke, Ujimitsu, or the other Phoenix heavies from this period (not least because those clodhoppers lie at the root of the tiresome, "Phoenix love maho LOL" garbage), and my investment in the Pre-Coup/Clan War personalities of other clans is even lower.

This was my era and Phoenix was my clan for quite a long time. To me, these characters are archetypes to their clan. Icons. They defined what it meant to be a personality of the Phoenix Clan. Tsuke, especially, defined what an aggressive and powerful Shugenja looked like for the more pacifistic Phoenix. He was at once a foil and an antagonist. A necessary element.

8 hours ago, williamobrien said:

Spider Clan is not happening. It took 12+ years of story development, including a generational time gap, for the circumstances behind the Spider to come about. Daigotsu had been a character for about 7 of those. Even if FFG radically changes events to make something like the Spider spring up, would it really be the Spider clan without the Daigotsu plot-line to build up to it? A playable Shadowlands faction is more likely, but at best it's probably 2 or 3 years down the line. I would expect to see it as a multi-player gimmick than as a true playable faction.

Mantis, or (more accurately) something resembling Yoritomo's Alliance, could happen. However, the original circumstances behind an alliance of minor clans springing up and not getting immediately snuffed out involved a war-and-plague torn Empire where the Great Clans couldn't pay attention to the revolt. Unless things somehow reach that state very, very quickly in the new timeline, which would be an odd way to introduce the setting, Yoritomo's Alliance is again probably multiple years away at best. Mantis and minor clan cards could definitely see print, and maybe even get their own template. I think that's the best former Mantis players can hope for.

Toturi is an announced character, so Toturi's Army could happen

But I'm not counting on it.

Please no Spider or Toturi's Army. Especially the latter. Mantis could work.

Clan members I wish to see back:

Kakita Toshimoko

Daidoji Uji

Togashi Mitsu

Isawa Tsuke

Shiba Tetsu

Kitsu Motso

Matsu Gohei

Shiba Tsukune

Shinjo Hanari

Ginawa

Dairya

Akodo Kage

Suana

Bayushi Aramoro

Bayushi Goshiu

To name a few...

11 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

You're entitled to your opinion. Which I abhor with the fire of a thousand suns.

11 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

I've said it a thousand times- of ALL clans, in the post-"real shugenja" Rokugan, the Phoenix should be the LEAST inclined to maho- because the appeal of maho is that anyone can learn it.

A clan whose clout is built around their heavy number of legitimate shugenja should be falling over themselves to keep a lid on anything that might threaten that edge.

Plus... maho's just frickin' boring. "I cut myself or someone else to bribe evil spirits to do a Thing" is just dumb compared to "I speak to the underlying tapestry of the universe to persuade it to alter in some fashion."

Except Maho was not originally evil spirits... it was spirits protected by the 7 fortunes from the taint and corruption, there was nothing 'evil' about it. It was only after the fortunes spread across the entire of rokugan that blood magic was corrupted cause they could no longer protect it... That is my basic understanding of the story.

So while I agree that the phoenix should not want everybody doing blood magic... the underlying belief that we as the phoenix could purify blood magic for ourselves and thus gain another option or 'string in our bow' is not unfeasible.... should we be doing it as honourable samurai, probably not,..... but sometimes you just gotta try, right!

So from a story point of view it is cool for me for some of the more... susceptible phoenix to be trying,.... but long run no I do not just want us to turn into the Shadowlands.

16 minutes ago, Isawa Tasatu said:

So from a story point of view it is cool for me for some of the more... susceptible phoenix to be trying,.... but long run no I do not just want us to turn into the Shadowlands.

But it's that persistent dabbling that gives us the rep!

1 hour ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

But it's that persistent dabbling that gives us the rep!

I don't mind the rep..... I am happy to both play the honourable good phoenix and the .... dodgy blood phoenix... but not necessarily 'evil'!

12 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

I've said it a thousand times- of ALL clans, in the post-"real shugenja" Rokugan, the Phoenix should be the LEAST inclined to maho- because the appeal of maho is that anyone can learn it.

While that's a good point, maybe you aren't considering that maho can be considered a booster of magical ability. So, yes, any ashigaru can learn maho, but a gifted and trained shugenja could get more out of it.

Much like, the most a Hobbit can get from the One Ring is a cool invisibility trick and eventually become Gollum, while on the other hand Gandalf or Galadriel could become a new Dark Lord and subjugate Middle-Earth.

11 minutes ago, Mon no Oni said:

While that's a good point, maybe you aren't considering that maho can be considered a booster of magical ability. So, yes, any ashigaru can learn maho, but a gifted and trained shugenja could get more out of it.

Much like, the most a Hobbit can get from the One Ring is a cool invisibility trick and eventually become Gollum, while on the other hand Gandalf or Galadriel could become a new Dark Lord and subjugate Middle-Earth.

There's also the amount of knowledge the Phoenix have regarding magic, including maho. Without an archive or a teacher all you get out of maho is whatever spells the kansen bother whispering to you. So for an ashigaru it will be more or less 'I have this one trick', and for a Phoenix it would be 'look at all the cool stuff I can do via self mutilation'.

Also the Asako are the ones with the archives and they have fewer shugenja, so you can use jealousy as a catalyst.

And wouldn't it be cool if in the middle of battle a Shiba with blood spewing from his arm suddenly immolated the opposing army with a quick incantation.... be unexpected if nothing else!

2 hours ago, Isawa Tasatu said:

And wouldn't it be cool if in the middle of battle a Shiba with blood spewing from his arm suddenly immolated the opposing army with a quick incantation.... be unexpected if nothing else!

I remember there being "global" spells that were very potent against the opposing player, that would be in line with what you are describing. Or "world" spells. Unless I'm thinking of another card game.

32 minutes ago, LordBlunt said:

I remember there being "global" spells that were very potent against the opposing player, that would be in line with what you are describing. Or "world" spells. Unless I'm thinking of another card game.

A few good examples of spells with global effects.