They will get it figured out in time. The game is great and I for one just don't want to see it implode because they get to far away from, you go I go.

2 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Reason 2 just doesn't apply here. The designers obviously saw the Rey/Ambush combo and approved of it, otherwise they never would've made a Vibroknife card.

well... don't forget SoR was designed already alongside Rey, so vibroknife isn't a data point...

Just now, isthar said:

well... don't forget SoR was designed already alongside Rey, so vibroknife isn't a data point...

Rey was designed alongside Holdout Blaster and the designers saw the combo at work. Then, they purposely made a melee version of the Holdout Blaster that also adds a nasty effect to the game. So it's not like they didn't see that coming.

Nice posts in here - makes me glad I started the thread.

I agree that the errata to fix this is actually pretty simple in the case of Rey, and also agree that there some other cards that need some sharper definition.

And yes, action chaining over a certain level does destroy the fun in the game. It has nothing to do with "I win" - I won the game that prompted my post by literally killing one of the opposing characters before they ever got to roll dice with it - an outcome only possible because of the whole Rey-Force Speed situation. There is no fun in just blowing away opposing characters without them fighting back.

I also feel (as stated elsewhere) that mill decks while a valid play archetype are always risky to allow, as unless you are careful with all card interactions you risk allowing non-interactive milling, which nearly destroyed Netrunner and took specifically designed cards to address. I'm not sure if this is an issue in Destiny yet, though some combos like ePadme with Fast Hands or Maz or dice control has some problematic potential.

So...

I agree Rey needs errata and I think the post upthread by Isthar suggesting changing her ability to "card gains Ambush" does the trick nicely.

I also agree Second Chance needs "Remove from game when used" and that Ammo Belt should only work on weapons. On the "want" front, I would like to see a Blue version of Imperial Inspection but maybe more siutational, so that silliness like Palpatine being neutered by Prized Posession has some kind of counter.

I don't think these issues are prevalent to the point that they need errata.

In a tourney this weekend someone running ePalp rolled out with both dice showing three ranged damage, resolved the first die with No Mercy and 4 pitched cards. That's 14 damage in the middle of the first round without any upgrades needed. I tossed a Holdout Blaster onto eAurra, rolled two ranged damage on all three dice, then used Aurra's ability to OHKO someone's Bala before they could roll in. And in another match I did the same thing with Rey, and put 7 damage on her before she could really do anything, limiting her usefulness to a great degree. In another match recently, after a 5 card mulligan I didn't have any upgrades in my hand in a deck with 12 upgrade cards. After rolling out my characters and pitching to re roll twice, I ended up with blanks and stuff I couldn't resolve. I should have just conceded right then.

A whole lot needs to go right for Rey to be able to nuke someone before they can do anything. I don't think it warrants an errata at this point. Same with Second Chance and Ammo Belt. Someone wants to have a character eat 2/3 upgrade slots dedicated to some extra HP? Anytime I've seen someone use that combo I've used that time to upgrade someone to the point where they're hitting like a truck.

44 minutes ago, KalEl814 said:

Same with Second Chance and Ammo Belt. Someone wants to have a character eat 2/3 upgrade slots dedicated to some extra HP? Anytime I've seen someone use that combo I've used that time to upgrade someone to the point where they're hitting like a truck.

The danger of this combo is with Jyn, who can murder your hand, preventing your ability to piece together enough damage to punch through Belt/Second Chance before she can recur them. With that combo in place I feel the Jyn player just needs to wait until you run out of cards, unless you can yourself discard the 4 recursion cards in their deck (Rebel and Cheat) before you get into that end-game scenario.

IMO hand destruction feels way worse than mill, as the game becomes very non-interactive once you can't reroll your dice.

2 hours ago, pantsyg said:

The danger of this combo is with Jyn, who can murder your hand, preventing your ability to piece together enough damage to punch through Belt/Second Chance before she can recur them. With that combo in place I feel the Jyn player just needs to wait until you run out of cards, unless you can yourself discard the 4 recursion cards in their deck (Rebel and Cheat) before you get into that end-game scenario.

IMO hand destruction feels way worse than mill, as the game becomes very non-interactive once you can't reroll your dice.

in this game hand destruction is mill

Will we see Errata? Almost certainly. Will it be what we expect / want? Probably not. If you look at the FAQ's for FFG's games, there is often a good amount of errata in there, and more importantly, it isn't often that big. More frequently, it seeks to fix a spelling error or a phrasing error, or even an unintended exploit. However, these are typically extensions of the way the card already works (for example, Boost in X-wing not being allowed to overlap ships with the template, as it was originally just final base position.) That said, I would like to see something limiting crazy actions in a row, just not Errata. Something that didn't just make it auto-include, and something that rewards slower play. Action spam is an integral part of the game, but interplay is too.

On 5/15/2017 at 5:58 PM, Kieransi said:

Reason 2 just doesn't apply here. The designers obviously saw the Rey/Ambush combo and approved of it, otherwise they never would've made a Vibroknife card.

The designers obviously saw the Emperor's Throne Room/Falcon/Hyperspace combo and approved of it, otherwise they never would have made Planetary Uprising.

This is deeply flawed thinking that relies entirely on an assumption that the developers never screw up, so anything they print is perfectly fine. Since that's obviously and provably not the case, your argument is just as flawed.

I recently played a number of games against ePoe/ eMaz and its my opinion that it is highly overpowered. I rarely lasted more than 3 turns. With Maz's ability to resolve 2 dice immediately I was taking 10+ damage each turn. Switching the battlefield did nothing with 'New Orders' in SOR. Any comments on this?

5 hours ago, Buhallin said:

The designers obviously saw the Emperor's Throne Room/Falcon/Hyperspace combo and approved of it, otherwise they never would have made Planetary Uprising.

This is deeply flawed thinking that relies entirely on an assumption that the developers never screw up, so anything they print is perfectly fine. Since that's obviously and provably not the case, your argument is just as flawed.

I clarified this statement in another post earlier:

On 5/15/2017 at 11:06 AM, Kieransi said:

Rey was designed alongside Holdout Blaster and the designers saw the combo at work. Then, they purposely made a melee version of the Holdout Blaster that also adds a nasty effect to the game. So it's not like they didn't see that coming.

The Rey/Vibroknife combo is not the same as many of the other combos, because there already was a Rey/Holdout Blaster combo, and, unless they never watched a single game, they knew it existed.

Also, I don't think that the heroes are actually that overpowered... the Chance Cube just did their meta tracker and it was like 75% of the winning decks that were villains.

2 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I clarified this statement in another post earlier:

The Rey/Vibroknife combo is not the same as many of the other combos, because there already was a Rey/Holdout Blaster combo, and, unless they never watched a single game, they knew it existed.

Also, I don't think that the heroes are actually that overpowered... the Chance Cube just did their meta tracker and it was like 75% of the winning decks that were villains.

Knowing that something exists and estimating its popularity or meta dominance are two entirely different things.

45 minutes ago, BobaBobo said:

I recently played a number of games against ePoe/ eMaz and its my opinion that it is highly overpowered. I rarely lasted more than 3 turns. With Maz's ability to resolve 2 dice immediately I was taking 10+ damage each turn. Switching the battlefield did nothing with 'New Orders' in SOR. Any comments on this?

What exactly would you like anyone to comment on?

You've given us next to no context other then you played against ePoe/eMaz with a deck that contained at least one copy of New Orders.

It's my opinion that Maz, for her cost is overpowered. Unless she is killed turn 1 it's almost impossible to survive the onslaught. I'm just adding this as something that I would like to see errated. Maybe resolving just 1 dice instead of 2. I might be in the minority but playing against this combo puts it in the 'not fun' category for me.

2 hours ago, Kieransi said:

I clarified this statement in another post earlier:

The Rey/Vibroknife combo is not the same as many of the other combos, because there already was a Rey/Holdout Blaster combo, and, unless they never watched a single game, they knew it existed.

The exact same thing could be said about Hyperloop, and by most accounts it didn't get the nerd stick just because of Planetary Uprising. Saying that something is intended just because they didn't errata the instant the card hit is not the least bit convincing.

It also comes down to how much you trust the devs. FFG is absolutely awful at card design/balance. Their play testers are worse. Speed is a genie that's very, very hard to put back in the bottle. While you may choose to be dismissive of it, Destiny's alternating actions and ability to control dice is what makes it more than just a dice game. It's absolutely fundamental to making it the game it is. If it gets lost because of stupid speed cards like Rey and Force Speed and Imperial Inspection... Shrug. I'm not going to predict doom, but I know a lot of people who've shared my opinion of what makes the game good.

3 hours ago, BobaBobo said:

I recently played a number of games against ePoe/ eMaz and its my opinion that it is highly overpowered. I rarely lasted more than 3 turns. With Maz's ability to resolve 2 dice immediately I was taking 10+ damage each turn. Switching the battlefield did nothing with 'New Orders' in SOR. Any comments on this?

Discard and Disrupt.

1 hour ago, Buhallin said:

The exact same thing could be said about Hyperloop, and by most accounts it didn't get the nerd stick just because of Planetary Uprising. Saying that something is intended just because they didn't errata the instant the card hit is not the least bit convincing.

It also comes down to how much you trust the devs. FFG is absolutely awful at card design/balance. Their play testers are worse. Speed is a genie that's very, very hard to put back in the bottle. While you may choose to be dismissive of it, Destiny's alternating actions and ability to control dice is what makes it more than just a dice game. It's absolutely fundamental to making it the game it is. If it gets lost because of stupid speed cards like Rey and Force Speed and Imperial Inspection... Shrug. I'm not going to predict doom, but I know a lot of people who've shared my opinion of what makes the game good.

I completely agree with you that some things are more fun to play against than others. I think the same can be said for most games - in X-Wing miniatures, the most fun ships are probably the T-65 X-Wing, the Ghost, the TIE Phantom, and the TIE/SF. All ships that have almost no presence anywhere in the meta. That's why you have to find other people willing to play casual games with you. The same applies to this game - I'll take a bunch of Tusken Raiders vs. a bunch of Rebel Troopers any day over the normal Rey vs. Palpatine, but I have to not be in a tournament to do so.

So I'm not trying to be dismissive of it, but action-stealing and a number of other unfun things are just part of the game. You don't need to be an action-stealer to win - I've seen a number of tournaments completely doninated by mill decks or Palpatine. So I would say even though it's not as fun, it's not broken or needing a nerf. I think it would be interesting if there was a trade-off card in the next wave, like a support where you can remove one of your dice to make me only take one action or something.

As for Rey being underpriced, I'd be ok if they reprint Finn and Rey, both costing 11/14 (even though I'd have to find a new deck to play). This game, being mostly card-based, is perfectly capable of doing errata as long as they have a system where they give you the new versions of cards for free if you have the old one. I just don't want them to errata anything if I still only have the original version and/or it makes the card completely worthless.

In X-Wing, my complaint with errata hasn't been that it existed, it's been that of the 27 errata'ed cards so far, only 3 have been reprinted with the correct text. On top of that, anybody who had Palpatine spent $100 on the Imperial Raider to get him. I personally don't care, the Raider was a cool ship anyway, but when he was nerfed, a lot of people felt like they'd wasted $100. I also purchased 3 Jumpmaster 5000's for $30 each, and they were nerfed so hard that now they're pretty much worthless.

So, I'm not completely against errata, but sometimes the way FFG does it completely punishes the loyal customers who bought the products that are being nerfed. I don't like that they do it that way at all - they nerf stuff completely rather than trying to balance it. If they just reprinted cards with adjusted costs, in both this and in X-Wing, it would be fine. But until they do that, I'll just have to deal with the fact that buying FFG Star Wars products is like investing in Bitcoin or gold - you have no idea when it's going to be made completely worthless.