On 14 May 2017 at 7:36 PM, MandoBard said:

Or, make it so you need t(w)o copies in play for full effectiveness, something along the lines of: When 2 of these dice are in the dice pool, double melee damage, and treat modifiers as regularly resovlalbe damage.

I'm assuming you were thinking out loud and hadn't yet thought this one through. Reason being, with two copies of anything "when X" in play, you effectively gain double the effect. And if that specific 'when' card was itself a doubling card (double melee in this instance), you would in effect quadruple it, because both copies are acting upon the same event.

Made even more powerful if that rule was attached to a die card (this case a weapon) as it also brings the target die with it, and with two copies in play you've got two such dice, plus the character die, and they're all being quadrupled. "Eat 24 damage Qui-Gon!" :0)

I've often found with rules writing (this is a general observation, not aimed at anyone), people tend to try and script multiple effects, usually with each added interaction unbalancing the whole. Whereas more often than not a good thematic rule is usually something understated and simple, capturing flavour over force feeding a prescriptive narrative.

24 minutes ago, SpaceMatt said:

I'm assuming you were thinking out loud and hadn't yet thought this one through. Reason being, with two copies of anything "when X" in play, you effectively gain double the effect. And if that specific 'when' card was itself a doubling card (double melee in this instance), you would in effect quadruple it, because both copies are acting upon the same event.

That's not actually true. Dice must be resolved one at a time, so only the first die to be resolved could actually gain the benefit of being doubled. This is especially true if your modifier die are treated as non-modifier die, thus losing the ability to resolve simultaneously with other die.

If he rolls just a 2melee on the character's (likely very melee) dice, its value would be 8. That's without resolving any of the two sabre dice. One of which will again benefit from both being in play. (And this is assuming there is no other melee damage to be had from other sources, of which there could be plenty).

So my point stands. Two cards, both doubling, would quadruple their target.

11 minutes ago, SpaceMatt said:

If he rolls just a 2melee on the character's (likely very melee) dice, it's value would be 8. That's without resolving any of the two sabre dice. One of which will again benefit from both being in play. (And this is assuming there is no other melee damage to be had from other sources, of which there could be plenty).

So my point stands. Two cards, both doubling, would quadruple their target.

Yeah, due to this level of multiplying, I agree Maul's saber would have to be a lot less powerful, or instead say increase the value by one. For example:

Dual-Bladed Lightsaber

Cost 3

If attached character has two copies of this weapon, increase each of its die values by one.

1 Melee

+1 Melee

+1 Melee

2 Melee (1 resource)

1 Discard

Blank

OR

•Darth Maul's Lightsaber (Unique)

Cost 4

If there is another copy of this card in your discard pile, you may roll two of its die into your pool.

1 Melee

+2 Melee

+2 Melee

2 Melee (1 resource)

2 Discard

Blank

Math is hard.

The reason why damage is stacked multiplicatively in other games is because the cards are templated using replacement effects; one card replaces the original value, and the second card replaces the second value, etc. We don't have an explicit mechanism for 'doubling' damage in this game, but as imprecise as the wording may be on MandoBard's theoretical card, we can say with no small amount of confidence that 2 damage doesn't turn into 8 because of some redundant game text.

I'm sure mandobard didn't intend a double-double effect, of course. But design-intent doesn't stop an unintended effect occurring in play, as we've seen on some real SWDestiny cards already.

If there were two cards in play with identical text, with the effect they increase (double) the value of a target, I think we'd see plenty of questions asking whether or not to apply both cards equally. There's nothing to suggest one doubling card would prevent or preclude the other having its effect too.

It's my experience that effects such as this are usually cumulative. It's often the whole point to such a function.

However, as you point out, we have no such mechanism in the current rules, so currently both interpretations are of equal validity... Or merely academic.

:0)

It was just a rough idea. overall concept was instead of the idea of both instances being a seperate weapon, is that if they were on the same character, both sides of lightsaber were activated... then again what I really want to see is the BowRifle from Rebels XD

34 minutes ago, MandoBard said:

It was just a rough idea. overall concept was instead of the idea of both instances being a seperate weapon, is that if they were on the same character, both sides of lightsaber were activated... then again what I really want to see is the BowRifle from Rebels XD

Yeah, I totally got what you meant with it! I think it's a really cool idea - there's already non-dice cards like Long Con that require 2 copies to work at full efficiency - why not dice upgrades?

I would be surprised if Maul is not included.

I think they will hold off on Maul, we will probably get another version of Palpetine, A Darth Sidious version.

But I do not disagree with what others have said here. While there are a good chunk of light side heroes to work with, actual Sith from the Movies/Shows are limited.

On 17 May 2017 at 4:51 AM, MandoBard said:

It was just a rough idea. overall concept was instead of the idea of both instances being a seperate weapon, is that if they were on the same character, both sides of lightsaber were activated... then again what I really want to see is the BowRifle from Rebels XD

Hi mando. Sorry if my thoughts regarding the rules part sounded a bit negative. I just ran with your suggestion by offering up my immediate thoughts on what I saw as potential problems with the wording. Didn't mean it to sound dismissive of the concept as such. My apologies if it came across that way. :0)

Though I'm not sure how I'd feel about a two-piece weapon card, I assume playing both would take up two upgrade slots on a character, thereby reducing its capacity for abilities upgrades.

Though I do think some weapons could perhaps do with a little exclusivity per character... Feels a bit theme-breaking when Handcrafted bow, or missile launcher, can be doubled up on one character. How are they carrying and using both? XoD

So I do wish there was a little more nuance to larger or unwieldy weapon upgrades. A keyword perhaps, or an icon, with which to indicate a character only being allowed to equip one such upgrade at any one time.

I think Darth Maul's first card should be based off Episode 1. Seeing how he is already featured on a common Awakening card:

I think Maul should be stronger than 11 because of his race. Here is my proposed card:

Darth Maul (Blue Villain Rare) 12

13/17

Before resolving this dice, you may remove all shields from a character

1 Melee

2 Melee

+2 Melee

Discard

Disrupt

Blank