If you've got a Reanimate unit with one of the Carrion Lancer upgrades and Lingering Dead and you lose the Carrion Lancer but still have a tray remaining, what happens? Assume that there are two gree runes that round.

It seems to me that you would put a single Reanimate in the base because it only has one open spot.

The slot is the wrong size, though. Pretty sure that tray is lost. The game definitely differentiates between infantry, cavalry, and heavy trays.

Regenerate specifies Reanimates. Not Lancers. They don't fit

8 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Regenerate specifies Reanimates. Not Lancers. They don't fit

Is there any rule that says that they can't?

2 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Is there any rule that says that they can't?

So it is a question on if the tray changes to a normal 4 man tray after the lancer is dead? But the lancer tray stays till the end. So no.

7 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

So it is a question on if the tray changes to a normal 4 man tray after the lancer is dead? But the lancer tray stays till the end. So no.

No. The question was whether or not you put a Renimate into the empty slot on the Lancer tray. The wording on Regeneration would seem to indicate that a Reanimate can br put into an empty slot in a tray no matter which model was removed.

I didn't notice anything in the rules that would stop you from putting a Reanimate in the base of a single figure tray. It's entirely possible that I missed something though.

Lingering Dead does seem to present a problem for folks that glued their Lancers into the bases.

2 hours ago, WWHSD said:

No. The question was whether or not you put a Renimate into the empty slot on the Lancer tray. The wording on Regeneration would seem to indicate that a Reanimate can br put into an empty slot in a tray no matter which model was removed.

I didn't notice anything in the rules that would stop you from putting a Reanimate in the base of a single figure tray. It's entirely possible that I missed something though.

Lingering Dead does seem to present a problem for folks that glued their Lancers into the bases.

Nah. Even if this were the case, which I seriously doubt it is, you could just swap for a properly sized tray and plop counters in the empty slots.

I would say based on RR 87

"...All of a unit's components must match that unit's type"

then the answer is no you can not put a single reanimate on the lancers tray because it does not match the reanimates type.

4 hours ago, Tvayumat said:

Nah. Even if this were the case, which I seriously doubt it is, you could just swap for a properly sized tray and plop counters in the empty slots.

Except they can't put a lancer on the tray and the tray is removed after the end of the round. It doesn't say you can replace the tray with a tray for reanimates.

This is interesting I see arguments for both sides of the issue here. Conceptually, I really need to read the rules a second time as I have no idea which side is right rules wise. Conceptually it is the worm that died and it doesn't regenerate. So case close. However the worm ? was an upgrade and the unit that lost a soldier was a regenerating unit. I think I would go with no regenerating cause the worm died how does it rise a reanimate? Was the reanimate inside the worm?

8 hours ago, VikingrKevin said:

I would say based on RR 87

"...All of a unit's components must match that unit's type"

then the answer is no you can not put a single reanimate on the lancers tray because it does not match the reanimates type.

The first subsection under 87 defines "unit type". A unit's type is Infantry, Seige, or Cavalry. They can't use upgrades with a type that doesn't match. Both of the Lancer figure upgrades are Infantry.

RGG, pg. 20:
'87.1 Each unit has a unit type icon in the lower-left of its unit
card. This icon indicates the unit’s type and is used to
determine what type of trays to use. There are three unit
types: infantry, cavalry, and seige.'

I was looking for a section call"regeneration" in the RRG. I should have been looking for "keywords". Here's the relevant rules for regeneration.

RRG, pg. 12:
'45.4 Regenerate X: At the end of the Activation Phase, if a unit with this keyword has any empty slots in its trays, slot X new figures corresponding with that unit’s card in the empty slots. • The number of figures slotted cannot exceed the number of empty slots. • Figures are slotted one at a time into the front-most tray with empty slots. Each figure must be slotted in a tray that contains one or more other figures if possible.


Lingering Dead keeps the tray around for the Lancer but the Lancer card is still discarded. Even if you put the the Lancer figure back in, it would have 1 defense, 1 wound, and give no extra effects to the unit. The model that you use would be a Lancer but from a game perspective it would be the same as a Reanimate.
RRG, pg. 11:
'38.7 When a figure upgrade is destroyed, either through damage or other game effects, its upgrade card is discarded, and its figure is removed from its tray.'

39 minutes ago, Ywingscum said:

Conceptually it is the worm that died and it doesn't regenerate. So case close. However the worm ? was an upgrade and the unit that lost a soldier was a regenerating unit. I think I would go with no regenerating cause the worm died how does it rise a reanimate? Was the reanimate inside the worm?

If it's just about making the fluff work for you, by the time you lose a worm, you have probably lost at least 24 Reanimates (unless a combo of accuracies and mortal strikes came into play). The worm isn't turning into a skeleton, one of the many dead skeletons is just getting back on its feet and taking its place.

Also in the worm article just released the lore talks about how reanimates get eaten by the worms fairly often.

On 5/13/2017 at 11:30 AM, WWHSD said:

RRG, pg. 12:
'45.4 Regenerate X: ..... • Figures are slotted one at a time into the front-most tray with empty slots. Each figure must be slotted in a tray that contains one or more other figures if possible.

Here is the thing, once a tray loses all the models from it the tray is removed. Regenerate only work on trays that still have models on them.

27 minutes ago, whiteferret76 said:

Here is the thing, once a tray loses all the models from it the tray is removed. Regenerate only work on trays that still have models on them.

You don't remove trays until aftet Regeneration happens if you have Lingering Dead equipped.

28 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

You don't remove trays until aftet Regeneration happens if you have Lingering Dead equipped.

Doesn't matter. The tray is empty but you can't regenerate into it because there is no model on it.

Each figure must be slotted in a tray that contains one or more other figures if possible. Since the Carrion tray itself is empty it can't be the target of regenerate regardless. The only benefit of lingering dead is that the block size will remain to impede movement by other units, and it would prevent units from shifting to stay in combat because of the phase that the tray removal happens.

9 minutes ago, whiteferret76 said:

Doesn't matter. The tray is empty but you can't regenerate into it because there is no model on it.

Each figure must be slotted in a tray that contains one or more other figures if possible. Since the Carrion tray itself is empty it can't be the target of regenerate regardless. The only benefit of lingering dead is that the block size will remain to impede movement by other units, and it would prevent units from shifting to stay in combat because of the phase that the tray removal happens.

I think you are misreading that. I believe that the passage that you are referring to forces you to fill out trays with models on them instead of placing single models on all of your empty trays. If you aren't able to place a model in an empty slot on a tray that has models then you are free to place it into an empty slot on an empty tray.

If your interpretation was correct it would have been much more straightforward to write something a long the lines of "You may only replace models into empty slots on trays that contain one or more figures". What is actually written doesn't prohibit you from placing models on empty trays, it just prohibits you from doing so if there an open slot on a non-empty tray available.

Note true whiteferret76.

RRG, pg. 12:
'45.4 Regenerate X: At the end of the Activation Phase, if a unit with this keyword has any empty slots in its trays, slot X new figures corresponding with that unit’s card in the empty slots. • The number of figures slotted cannot exceed the number of empty slots. • Figures are slotted one at a time into the front-most tray with empty slots. Each figure must be slotted in a tray that contains one or more other figures if possible.

Since lingering dead says I do not remove my trays, if I have 4 empty slots in 1 tray; and I have regenerate 2 (from green runes), then I would need to slot 2 figures back into my unit.

I would start with empty slots in the front most trays (all the front is full), then I'd start with the next front most, and so on, until I get to the rear rank.

Now I would slot into empty trays in the rear rank, starting with trays which have empty spots, and have models. Since I do not have any trays with empty spots AND models, I've fulfilled the "If Possible" clause.

All that's left is the empty tray, and I still have 2 models to regenerate. They go into the empty tray.

If I had 2 empty Trays, the first model would go on one empty tray, and the 2nd would be required to go on the same tray with the first, because I would at that moment have a tray with a model and an empty slot.

On 5/13/2017 at 11:16 AM, WWHSD said:

The first subsection under 87 defines "unit type". A unit's type is Infantry, Seige, or Cavalry. They can't use upgrades with a type that doesn't match. Both of the Lancer figure upgrades are Infantry.

RGG, pg. 20:
'87.1 Each unit has a unit type icon in the lower-left of its unit
card. This icon indicates the unit’s type and is used to
determine what type of trays to use. There are three unit
types: infantry, cavalry, and seige.'

That sort of reaffirms what I'm saying I believe.

"This icon indicates the unit's type and is used to determine what TYPE of TRAYS to use"

So the Reanimate card determines you must use infantry trays. Of course card upgrades break this, so indeed the carrion lancer upgrade breaks that rule and you use the siege tray for him.

So maybe based on Regenerate maybe you just put a little skellie in it, you wouldn't technically put the lancer since he doesn't correspond with the unit card.

RRG, pg. 12:
'45.4 Regenerate X: At the end of the Activation Phase, if a unit with this keyword has any empty slots in its trays , slot X new figures corresponding with that unit’s card in the empty slots. • The number of figures slotted cannot exceed the number of empty slots. • Figures are slotted one at a time into the front-most tray with empty slots. Each figure must be slotted in a tray that contains one or more other figures if possible.

But it also says "in it's trays" so the question is because the carrion lancer is an upgrade does that tray count as one of the unit's trays? Probably so. Or does only the type of trays that match it's icon count, based on 87.1? Probably not but maybe?