27 minutes ago, Drudenfusz said:

That was a typo, I edited my post, I didn't tried to say one can choose a zero there.

Actually, I must take that back and apologize as well. Since we don't know the full contents and full rules of the game as of now, there definitely will be a chance that various Clans, Scorpion comes to mind, that will have card effects which might/will modify a player' dial, voluntarily or involuntarily.

Again, we seem to be in a mad rush to identify as many cards and realize as much of the rules as soon as we can, as a result we continue to trip over ourselves. I'm no stranger to that happening.

EDITED.

Before i sign off for the night I would like to posit this thought.

In one of the other threads it was brought up that there were 5(?) cards that those in that thread's conversation couldn't account for or place in one of the categories. Well, if those 5 cards (each utilizing a ring's effects???) were the only manner for any player to initiate a duel, so be it.... that would fit nicely into our Rokugan gaming world.

These 5 cards that each player has access to (any player may include 0 - 5 of those cards into their deck???) would be the 'harnessing' effect in keeping duels from going out of bounds in comparison to the other gaming mechanics. You want to initiate a duel? Include one or more of those cards in your deck. ???

All conjecture on my part. I apologize in advance if I sound too crazy with this.

1 hour ago, LordBlunt said:

Before i sign off for the night I would like to posit this thought.

In one of the other threads it was brought up that there were 5(?) cards that those in that thread's conversation couldn't account for or place in one of the categories. Well, if those 5 cards (each utilizing a ring's effects???) were the only manner for any player to initiate a duel, so be it.... that would fit nicely into our Rokugan gaming world.

These 5 cards that each player has access to (any player may include 0 - 5 of those cards into their deck???) would be the 'harnessing' effect in keeping duels from going out of bounds in comparison to the other gaming mechanics. You want to initiate a duel? Include one or more of those cards in your deck. ???

All conjecture on my part. I apologize in advance if I sound too crazy with this.

That's an interesting idea.

The five 'mystery' cards seemed to translate (from the Spanish they were spoiled in) to "Personality" cards. Because of this, some people are expecting them to be similar to the old Sensei cards. If that's the case, there are only 5 of them with 7 Clans, so one would assume that at least some of them are usable by more than one clan, which would be somewhat odd given how the game seems to be designed.

If your thought about them being the way to initiate duels turns out to be even partially accurate, it could fit if each was indeed based on one of the Rings. Air could create a 'political' duel, Earth a 'jiujitsu' brawl duel, etc.

16 hours ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

That's an interesting idea.

...

If your thought about them being the way to initiate duels turns out to be even partially accurate, it could fit if each was indeed based on one of the Rings. Air could create a 'political' duel, Earth a 'jiujitsu' brawl duel, etc.

Yup, I had read that in the other thread with players attempting to translate the Spanish.

And I would think that a sizable number of new and existing players would be better served if the dueling mechanism was tied in to actual cards that a Player would need to include into their deck for the purposes of duels.

Again, as always, just imo.

1 hour ago, LordBlunt said:

And I would think that a sizable number of new and existing players would be better served if the dueling mechanism was tied in to actual cards that a Player would need to include into their deck for the purposes of duels.

Again, as always, just imo.

Would this instead of the bidding mechanism we've already seen? From the FB Live video Brad did indicate that cards would be needed to initiate duels. I do agree card play would be preferable to the Honor Bid Skill Check duel, but maybe the thought process there was to make Conflict deck building a bit more straightforward. Having to tune a deck to deal with a potential full duel deck or just standard Conflict cards might be a bit of a nightmare.

2 hours ago, Danwarr said:

Would this instead of the bidding mechanism we've already seen?

Short answer is maybe.

The issue is, again, balance. I am not a player who is wild for dueling in general, so I am not one who will push for dueling to become a major factor in the game.

2 hours ago, Danwarr said:

...I do agree card play would be preferable to the Honor Bid Skill Check duel, but maybe the thought process there was to make Conflict deck building a bit more straightforward. Having to tune a deck to deal with a potential full duel deck or just standard Conflict cards might be a bit of a nightmare.

Oh, most definitely; player A going full on dueling (with 5 of my theorized cards, meaning having 5 chances of one of those cards coming into his/her hand so that he can initiate a duel with, assuming 5 cards were included in the given deck) against player B who has no dueling cards in his/her deck would be unbalanced. At the very least.

In the meanwhile, the game and rules for winning/losing are highly grounded. A player can win by achieving 25 Honor, or sacking his/her opponent's Stronghold. This is straightforward in my thinking, and provides enough elbow room for the introduction of various cards in upcoming releases that will further enhance the game.

I don't wish to poison this topic so I will stop now. The full rules aren't out yet so I don't wish to keep making suppositions that will confuse others and divide the community.

On 5/12/2017 at 3:52 PM, Shiba Mako said:

So currently, without any dueling cards, it makes more sense to loose duels for the honor then to sacrifice honor for the win.

still one of the weirdest systems. I hope the Crane article shows at least one Dueling card.

it might make sense to bid low in certain situations.

but that isn't the samething as loosing on purpose or trying to loose.

I assume dueling in this game will be conducted in a manner similar to how it was in the CCG. Meaning you won't ever willingly enter into a duel that you can possibly lose (barring the weird card effect).

So, you will only issue challanges that you can win with a very low honor dial bid. Therefore, the dueling deck will almost always be bidding 1s and 2s, and isn't really (in practice) going to lose any honor from their duels. In order for their opponent to beat them, they will need to bid very high (4s and 5s) and throw additional card effects at them to steal victory from the jaws of defeat.

So... the dueling deck WILL be getting honor from their duels and their opponent WILL be losing honor if they pull out all the stops to win. If they don't pull out the stops, they will just graciously lose the duel to the superior opponent.

Also, the dueling cards themselves are likely to generate some honor gains, but that part is pure speculation based on how the CCG worked.

I think this mechanic is very thematic. I am not sure why anyone here seems to think a dueling deck will ever willingly bid high.

14 minutes ago, Yogo Gohei said:

I assume dueling in this game will be conducted in a manner similar to how it was in the CCG. Meaning you won't ever willingly enter into a duel that you can possibly lose (barring the weird card effect).

So, you will only issue challanges that you can win with a very low honor dial bid. Therefore, the dueling deck will almost always be bidding 1s and 2s, and isn't really (in practice) going to lose any honor from their duels. In order for their opponent to beat them, they will need to bid very high (4s and 5s) and throw additional card effects at them to steal victory from the jaws of defeat.

So... the dueling deck WILL be getting honor from their duels and their opponent WILL be losing honor if they pull out all the stops to win. If they don't pull out the stops, they will just graciously lose the duel to the superior opponent.

Also, the dueling cards themselves are likely to generate some honor gains, but that part is pure speculation based on how the CCG worked.

I think this mechanic is very thematic. I am not sure why anyone here seems to think a dueling deck will ever willingly bid high.

While I agree with your first sentiment, I don't know that I agree with the second sentiment. I think with the setup, there will be basically two options on each side, typically. Each side will decide "Do I bid high enough to guarantee the win, but lose honor, or do I bid low for the chance of honor, with the acceptance of my loss."

I don't think "I win AND gain honor" will be a typical scenario. I think it will either be do I bid to win or do I bid for an honor gain?

Just now, Mirith said:

While I agree with your first sentiment, I don't know that I agree with the second sentiment. I think with the setup, there will be basically two options on each side, typically. Each side will decide "Do I bid high enough to guarantee the win, but lose honor, or do I bid low for the chance of honor, with the acceptance of my loss."

I don't think "I win AND gain honor" will be a typical scenario. I think it will either be do I bid to win or do I bid for an honor gain?

This is all hypothetical, of course, but I would imagine the VAST majority of duels will be thrown at people with a much lower duel stat (4 or more difference). Then you bid low (1 or 2). If your opponent tries to fight it, they will most likely win (since they wouldn't be fighting it otherwise, and almost certainly have some hidden card effects in play) but you will get some honor due to their treachery. Otherwise, they lose, and you get whatever the benefit is from the duel.

That was the norm in the CCG and I have no idea why it would be different here. Sure, in desperation, you may occasionally throw down a duel that isn't a sure thing, but that should be pretty rare. Why would you waste a card / action to give your opponent an advantage?

That Crane Fashion condition that for 2 fate gives 4 political screams bully dueling to me. Overreaction much when we still have not seen any duel card. Cannot wait for this week's article and see something about duels beyond "select type and dial bid".

I'm really looking forward to seeing what the duel effects and cards are like in this game. But to me, the mind games of the new duel mechanic seem potentially very interesting indeed.

And even better, they might be something in this game that a lot of players want to use, rather than one that almost everyone seems to loathe...

I think I have only seen - to 3 as far as stats go, meaning so far the largest difference on just printed character stats will be 3. yes you have honored status and attachments which can help as well as other abilities. but printed its only a difference of 3, a 2-3 point difference in duels would make it an interesting mechanic What if all the Duels said printed stat? Then you will have an advantage but not an insurmantable one, does the dueling deck go for straight honor and bid 1 ignoring the effect of the duel, or do they bid 2 or 3 trying to win and maybe gain an additional honor or 2. the non dueling deck can choose to bid high to win the duel but give up honor , or they can bid low and possible steal from honor from an opponent that went mid range trying to win and gain honor. They could also go mid if they think they can bid jsut high enough to beat a 1-2 honor bid with 3-4 and lose only 1-2 honor and gain the effect of winning.

However if it is not printed duels will most likely be boring i bid 1 you bid 1 as one side has an impossible to beat advantage. Also the low honor clan may eventually not be able to bid more than 1-2 if they lose to much honor to card draw early