what about just printing some scum upgrades that are also usable by one other faction. crew mostly i suppose but even the odd pilot?

5 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

I like it, just glanced over it for now but will read it further tonight. Looked to be similiar to my idea. Thanks for the link ?

Yeah, I'm thinking about trying a vassal tournament using that format or something like that organized with some players from the LFGS nearby to me. I would like to see if there is any difference in faction standings, or ships that make the top cut.

FWIW - I only own scum and fly them most of the time (sometimes fly rebs/imps but mostly in 2v2 matches with friends)

What i don't like about this idea is that you have said 'people can't field a scum only list'

I didn't start getting into x wing until scum and villany came out - prior to that I got the (admittedly ignorant) vibe that the game was, in a sense, just a fan service to stereotypical x wing vs TIE fighter folk (no 'negativity' around that but you know the people im talking about) and, being neutral toward the whole 'star wars lore and universe is the greatest omg' mentality, i was happy to keep playing MtG

In a sense, what i really like about scum and villany is the fact that they aren't the quintessential star wars ships (whilst still being, in my opinion, visually belonging to the star wars universe) and i get to bring these anomalies to the table to try my luck against the military giant of the imperials or the fanatic idealism of the rebellion 8)

Side note - despite having seen all the films, etc. It has been getting into this game (which was caused by 3rd faction) that i am now more interested in star wars universe and lore. You could indeed now call me a fan of star wars and all that entails but it wasn't because of the x wing or the TIE fighter

Im 29 for reference

*edit - should also clarify that im totally on board with scum being available for hire (much like marinealvers suggestion), but in both cases i don't like that you either cant field only scum, or that scum have to be the secondary players to the other factions and can't be primary.

1 hour ago, DragonDante said:

In a sense, what i really like about scum and villany is the fact that they aren't the quintessential star wars ships (whilst still being, in my opinion, visually belonging to the star wars universe) and i get to bring these anomalies to the table to try my luck against the military giant of the imperials or the fanatic idealism of the rebellion 8)

I respect your opinion and for context I am 41 and grew up with the old school trilogy. I feel the exact opposite on ship design. Outside slave 1 I would have no idea what a scum ship looked like or even cared. Star Wars was rebs vs imperials to me and always will be. If I had not played x wing vs tie fighter or star wars galaxies I'd have no idea what a scyk was or a kihraxz, let alone a toilet seat or the uss defiant aka punishing one and shadow caster. I'm glad something got you involved in star wars though it's a fun lore filled system but to me scum is the buck rodgers poor cousin to the real wars ships. Again no disrespect and glad to have you in the system with all the other star brothers and sisters, see you out there ?

It's interesting to compare our experiences. I want to say that I respect your position as well - even though I've said that i enjoy playing as the 'third wheel' faction, i acknowledge that there needs to be, in an esoteric sense i guess, 2 existing factions for a 3rd to exist (particularly within star wars lore)

There are many other games that i enjoy where i could see a 'new 3rd faction' as being something that i would potentially oppose. I guess it just happens to be this example where i am on the team of '3rd faction just created' and not something established prior.

Thanks for being a champ about this discussion - fly casual you awesome person ^^

7 hours ago, DragonDante said:

...

*edit - should also clarify that im totally on board with scum being available for hire (much like marinealvers suggestion), but in both cases i don't like that you either cant field only scum, or that scum have to be the secondary players to the other factions and can't be primary.

Agreed, that is why with revision 3 you could either field a typical Primary Faction or a single Imperial/Rebel Subfaction allied with Scum Mercenaries.

So far the biggest concerned is faction balance but now with Scum being ascendant (some might even call it dominant) I don't think that is much of an issue. What is an issue that I believe will resolve itself in time is the lack of ships for the New Trilogy subfactions. However with a new movie across the horizon I think they will both be getting a new ship thus bringing those subfactions closer in par with the original ones.

28 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Agreed, that is why with revision 3 you could either field a typical Primary Faction or a single Imperial/Rebel Subfaction allied with Scum Mercenaries.

My apologies - I've not seen revision 3 and must have been thinking of a previous version.

17 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

And I could be totally wrong on this but I thought the Mandalorians were practically extinct? I thought I read somewhere that Boba was one of the last?

That has not been canon in over a decade now.

17 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

You really didn't read what I said at all. I asked if it would break the game doing what I suggested not Scum broke X wing.

People on these forums scramble over themselves to torpedo people's ideas so enthusiastically that they often don't even bother to read the original post all the way through. I still haven't gotten used to it. It's only slightly better than the one-word "no" posts that are so prevalent too... at least they're taking the time to explain why what they THINK you wrote won't work. The "No" response is curt, dismissive, and not constructive at all. Both types on commenters should go take a long walk off a short pier. Also, at least your guy who didn't read actually apologized. That's rare.

I'd like to see a limited way that Rebels and Imperials could use the services of bounty hunters. Say an "Imperial Peacekeeping Certificate" or Rebel equivalent that uses up an illicit slot. I'd limit it to unique bounty hunters, maybe only one ship per side, and maybe also limited to a smaller percentage of your force (say 30%). This would often require that you be playing higher point games than the standard 100/6.

19 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Unfortunately, that kind of shafts the pirates, cartels, and distinct cultures (like Mandalorians) who aren't for hire and don't side with either Imps and Rebs.

Mandalorians have sided with both Imps and Rebels in the new canon (Star Wars Rebels). And in the old canon, if you count Boba Fett.

So, what you're saying is that you would like for all Rebel lists to look like this:

3x Contracted Scout, Attanni Mindlink, Plasma Torpedoes, Guidance Chips
1x Bandit Squadron Pilot

And all Imperial lists to look like this:

3x Contracted Scout, Attanni Mindlink, Plasma Torpedoes, Guidance Chips
1x Academy Pilot

21 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

it makes as much sense as 2 falcon's, 2 Ghosts, the empire losing to pirates ?

Wait a second, you can't field 2 Falcons or 2 Ghosts. You can field the Millennium Falcon alongside another generic YT-1300. And you can field the Ghost alongside another generic VCX-100. They're mass-produced ships, it stands to reason that more than one owner of those ships could be a Rebellion sympathizer.

Also, why shouldn't a small group of Imperial ships occasionally lose to pirates? If that never happened at all, pirates wouldn't exist to begin with, because they would be automatically defeated by a single TIE Fighter.

Just saying. The flavor of the game doesn't stand to scrutiny (mostly because of different eras coexisting together on the same battlefield), but this is not one of those cases.

1 hour ago, Kumagoro said:

Wait a second, you can't field 2 Falcons or 2 Ghosts. You can field the Millennium Falcon alongside another generic YT-1300. And you can field the Ghost alongside another generic VCX-100. They're mass-produced ships, it stands to reason that more than one owner of those ships could be a Rebellion sympathizer.

Also, why shouldn't a small group of Imperial ships occasionally lose to pirates? If that never happened at all, pirates wouldn't exist to begin with, because they would be automatically defeated by a single TIE Fighter.

Just saying. The flavor of the game doesn't stand to scrutiny (mostly because of different eras coexisting together on the same battlefield), but this is not one of those cases.

I grant you the titles are unique and your point is sound but in what common sense world would han, chewie, or lando pilot any yt1300 that wasn't the falcon? Same with the ghost pilots. It's a nit picky thing to be sure but a yt1300 is the falcon in my eyes. The ghost is more swallowable because I don't like the rebels show so know far less about it. That's why I kinda wish specific ships weren't in this game. Most of the bounty hunters fit in this and the outrider. Their personal ships are unique with stories of there own and I feel it cheapens the ship a bit to view as mass produced when in the stories they are legends. Just how I see it ?

1 hour ago, Kumagoro said:

So, what you're saying is that you would like for all Rebel lists to look like this:

3x Contracted Scout, Attanni Mindlink, Plasma Torpedoes, Guidance Chips
1x Bandit Squadron Pilot

And all Imperial lists to look like this:

3x Contracted Scout, Attanni Mindlink, Plasma Torpedoes, Guidance Chips
1x Academy Pilot

In the system I laid out you are very correct it may devolve to that which would force ffg to fix the punishing one correctly as it would completely warp the meta instead of this band-aid BS they are doing with it. It's ok for ffg to take a deep breathe and say we screwed up on this ship but it seems like they want scum to have it's turn in the sun and that would not be necessary the way I laid out. It'd be an obvious OP ship and properly nerfed.

5 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

That has not been canon in over a decade now.

I've been a fan for nearly 4 so...

I remember the way I knew it for longer than it's been different.

I have seen at least one tournament where Scum were mecenaries. It was a standard 100-pointer, but each play had to have at least one ship from Scum. Upgrade cards limited to the appripriate faction, and it could not be a 100% scum list.

I took Tokil Mux and 3 Storm squad pilots. Yeah, it sucked. Lots of fun though.

10 hours ago, DragonDante said:

My apologies - I've not seen revision 3 and must have been thinking of a previous version.

The first version was when Scum first came out and it was just having rebels or imperials taking some of the scum and calling them new factions. Main disagreement over that one was faction balance. But this was also in Wave 6 so it there were not as many ships Rebels were ascendant and scum was not as powerful.

The second version was after Wave 9 when I focused a little too much on the soft split of the primary factions. The rule was you chose 1 subfaction and then you may either take a limited amount of points from another subfaction in your primary faction or have the same limited amount of points as mercenaries. But that left the scum primary faction untouched where Rebels and Imperials now faced more arbitrary list requirements.

Revision 3 took the approach instead of restricting players it is better to give players more options and that includes the ones they are familiar with. So the concept is not to take away the primary factions, but also include them with the new allied subfaction-mercenary list. Hence the 3rd iteration of the proposed format. Which was also needed as multi-faction and cross faction personas were starting to get released.

Now most of the rules here covers the allied sub-faction-mercenaries as that is the key difference between Allies and Mercenaries format and standard. Perhaps I should make sure that it is clearer that standard primary faction lists are welcomed as well.

4 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

in what common sense world would han, chewie, or lando pilot any yt1300 that wasn't the falcon?

You mostly wouldn't see that in a movie because it would feel redundant or confusing, but it's plausible enough that Lando would want to buy another YT-1300 for himself, or that in some unseen adventure they steal another and they have to split in order to fly the new one back, and such scenarios (the same goes for the crew of the Ghost). It's not against common sense, these ships are like makes of cars, only because someone is known for driving a specific car, it doesn't mean they can't meet someone else who also does (actually, it's sort of a narratively rich scenario).

Whereas some of the other stuff that happens on our miniature battlefields is outright impossible short of cheesy time travel shenanigans that the setting doesn't even support as far as we know.

Hardly neutral, otherwise they wouldn't be called Scum... They're just more likely to follow their own agenda, than to side with someone who isn't the highest bidder.

I actually thought the initial implementation of Boba as fielded by the Empire was fine. It was later on, that the things got out of hand. Space pirates and unaligned bounty hunters felt like something for a scenario play, much like the senator shuttle, not a "third recognisable force" they have become. Too late for those musings, though. Now they're apparently ruling the galaxy, heh.

14 hours ago, Keoki said:

Mandalorians have sided with both Imps and Rebels in the new canon (Star Wars Rebels). And in the old canon, if you count Boba Fett.

True, but they have also worked for their own agendas in both canon (Death Watch) and Legends (when Boba Fett becomes Mandalore).

No.
<moves along to read another nerf thread out of pure self-loathing>

2 hours ago, stuffedskullcat said:

No.
<moves along to read another nerf thread out of pure self-loathing>

holy double post batman

But just out of curiosity what about my alternative format? I don't mean for it to replace primer but would you consider giving it a try?

Long time ago? That's what I thought they were gonna do.