Aww educational for me... where does it say they can't be sundered? Page?

In the 1000 rules I missed that and have played it wrong.

31 minutes ago, scotter23 said:

Aww educational for me... where does it say they can't be sundered? Page?

In the 1000 rules I missed that and have played it wrong.

Bottom of page 175 of the F&D Core Rulebook "Lightsabers cannot be Sundered."

16 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

Actually I believe it would be DDDDD, you upgrade the difficulty of making a ranged attack when you're engaged, but you could knock that down to DDDD with Dynamic fire talent (vanguard or recruit), so yeah the RAW sucks for this concept, so if you want to pull this off you've got to talk to the GM about some sort of accomodation (the GM of the game I'm going to be playing in said I could use linked on a double bladed lightsaber one end replaced with a blaster with the difficulty upgraded once so a 3 purple dice pool. I ended up not going with the concept so that I could have a regular lightsaber/one hand free to use unarmed parry from the martial artist.

But I would really love if FFG could provide a way to pull of "gun-fu"

I would say that you needn't be engaged at the outset. I would totally allow a two-weapon-increased-difficulty-check at short range, and then if you had the Advantage to pull off the second (melee) hit—all else being equal—you could use a maneuver to run into the engagement with your target and then do the melee hit.

Don't think there's anything game-breaking about allowing your free maneuver to take place inside your action resolution. Still allows for Reflect/Parry/Preemptive Avoidance, etc. Whatchu think?

7 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

I would say that you needn't be engaged at the outset. I would totally allow a two-weapon-increased-difficulty-check at short range, and then if you had the Advantage to pull off the second (melee) hit—all else being equal—you could use a maneuver to run into the engagement with your target and then do the melee hit.

Don't think there's anything game-breaking about allowing your free maneuver to take place inside your action resolution. Still allows for Reflect/Parry/Preemptive Avoidance, etc. Whatchu think?

I hadn't thought about that but it's a valid/legitimate argument/strategy

What do people think about Double Lightsabers being used with 1 hand? Should they be considered a 2 handed weapon with cumbersome of 3, but if you only have 1 hand they have a cumbersome rating of 6? With my PC losing his arm he now only has 1 to use which I would think would make it harder to utilize such a large weapon. Thoughts?

4 hours ago, Ender07 said:

What do people think about Double Lightsabers being used with 1 hand? Should they be considered a 2 handed weapon with cumbersome of 3, but if you only have 1 hand they have a cumbersome rating of 6? With my PC losing his arm he now only has 1 to use which I would think would make it harder to utilize such a large weapon. Thoughts?

I read somewhere, I think in the faq that the official ruling was that double bladed lightsabers could be used in one hand. I wouldn't have thought so but...

The stats for the double-bladed lightsaber in the FaD core rulebook don't cite that they require two hands to wield (possibly due to the Grand Inquisitor in SW Rebels using his double 'saber with a single hand). So by RAW, a PC with one limb can make full use of a double-bladed lightsaber.

In Endless Vigil, the templates for both Double-bladed Lightsabers & Pole Lightsabers (Pikes) are two-handed, so it seems the previous info on them in the core book is outdated.

We may also be seeing stats for an Inquisitor-style double-bladed lightsaber in the upcoming Ghosts of Dathomir adventure, which may in turn make the chart in Endless Vigil about crafting double-bladed lightsabers itself 'outdated.'

Though it's probably worth noting that the Endless Vigil build rules don't cover things like the Temple Guard 'saber staff which does a whole lot of stuff that's nigh impossible for a PC to replicate or the Guard Shoto, which offers far more than the "defensive hilt" template.

So I wouldn't take the Endless Vigil lightsaber templates as being the end-all be-all regarding lightsaber hilts.

2 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

We may also be seeing stats for an Inquisitor-style double-bladed lightsaber in the upcoming Ghosts of Dathomir adventure, which may in turn make the chart in Endless Vigil about crafting double-bladed lightsabers itself 'outdated.'

Though it's probably worth noting that the Endless Vigil build rules don't cover things like the Temple Guard 'saber staff which does a whole lot of stuff that's nigh impossible for a PC to replicate or the Guard Shoto, which offers far more than the "defensive hilt" template.

So I wouldn't take the Endless Vigil lightsaber templates as being the end-all be-all regarding lightsaber hilts.

I may be in the minority here, but I think if you have 1 hand and you attempt to wield a double bladed lightsaber...you are either going to end up hurting yourself or others due to the cumbersome nature of the size of both the blades and the hilt. My player asked if he could use it as a normal lightsaber if he only activated one blade, I wasn't sure how to respond and since no additional combat came up since then I haven't had to.

I was planning on stating that if he wanted to use a double lightsaber with 1 hand he would have to automatically increase any roll (engaged to hard) and if he used it single handed with a single blade it would have 2 setback for it being such a large hilt and heavier than a normal lightsaber due to the increased mass/wight.

Except that in the first two season of Star Wars Rebels, we do indeed see multiple individuals (the Inquisitors) wielding what are double-bladed lightsabers with a single hand, with the hilt design making it nearly impossible to truly wield it with both hands.

Obviously, for your home game you can rule however you wish with regards to how many hands are needed to wield a double-bladed lightsaber, but there is on-screen precedence for being able to wield such weapons with only a single hand.

Well crap...the one Star Wars tv series I never watched! I just went on youtube and saw exactly what you meant, that Inquisitor's double bladed lightsaber is definitely small enough to be wielded by one hand. Does anyone know if the spinning action is written in to any source books yet, for either deflecting blaster shots or the "flying" they do with it?

On 5/19/2017 at 2:25 PM, Ender07 said:

Well crap...the one Star Wars tv series I never watched! I just went on youtube and saw exactly what you meant, that Inquisitor's double bladed lightsaber is definitely small enough to be wielded by one hand. Does anyone know if the spinning action is written in to any source books yet, for either deflecting blaster shots or the "flying" they do with it?

As of yet, there's no official mechanical rules for the spinner hilt. So unless Ghosts of Dathomir does something different, it'd be no different than a standard double-bladed lightsaber.

Dave Filoni has said in an interview that the spinner hilts were there to allow the Inquisitor to pull of the type of moves that Darth Maul did with his double-bladed lightsaber even though they didn't have Maul's degree of skill. Granted, that interview took place during Season 1, long before the introduction of additional Inquisitors or the revelation that the Season One Grand Inquisitor was a former Jedi Temple Guard, who routinely used double-bladed lightsabers as per The Clone Wars TV series.

In the "Developers Answerd Questions" thread there is This question by

GandofGand

Quote

Q : Double/Staff Sabers; can they be wielded in one-hand? Much of the fiction and media I've seen seems to indicate it (General Krell) and it does NOT say "Requires Two Hands" in the description.

Samuel Stewart: Yes, a double-bladed lightsaber can be wielded one-handed. You could potentially dual-wield them, but besides the significant costs involved, your GM is more than welcome to rule that trying to control four lightsaber blades with two hands is going to result on several Setback dice being added to all of your combat checks.

Any other question at hand?
hand out Setbacks and or Upgrades? (dangerous this weapon is! Hrmm! Wielding with one hand, harm yourself or friends of you, you may will! Hrmmm!"

On 5/19/2017 at 1:40 PM, Donovan Morningfire said:

Except that in the first two season of Star Wars Rebels, we do indeed see multiple individuals (the Inquisitors) wielding what are double-bladed lightsabers with a single hand, with the hilt design making it nearly impossible to truly wield it with both hands.

Obviously, for your home game you can rule however you wish with regards to how many hands are needed to wield a double-bladed lightsaber, but there is on-screen precedence for being able to wield such weapons with only a single hand.

On 5/19/2017 at 2:25 PM, Ender07 said:

Well crap...the one Star Wars tv series I never watched! I just went on youtube and saw exactly what you meant, that Inquisitor's double bladed lightsaber is definitely small enough to be wielded by one hand. Does anyone know if the spinning action is written in to any source books yet, for either deflecting blaster shots or the "flying" they do with it?

On 5/20/2017 at 3:15 PM, Donovan Morningfire said:

As of yet, there's no official mechanical rules for the spinner hilt. So unless Ghosts of Dathomir does something different, it'd be no different than a standard double-bladed lightsaber.

Dave Filoni has said in an interview that the spinner hilts were there to allow the Inquisitor to pull of the type of moves that Darth Maul did with his double-bladed lightsaber even though they didn't have Maul's degree of skill. Granted, that interview took place during Season 1, long before the introduction of additional Inquisitors or the revelation that the Season One Grand Inquisitor was a former Jedi Temple Guard, who routinely used double-bladed lightsabers as per The Clone Wars TV series.

It should also be noted that the very first Double-bladed lightsaber ever used in SW fiction (the one used by Exr Kun in TotJ: Dark Lords of the Sith ) was routinely used one-handed. In fact, the hilt was the same length as a standard lightsaber hilt.

So back on the topic of the topic.

I suggest that the rule at:

On 5/15/2017 at 11:25 AM, Ender07 said:

Bottom of page 175 of the F&D Core Rulebook "Lightsabers cannot be Sundered."

:means that they cant be affected by the Sunder item quality. And I would even argue that it applies specifically to the energy blade.

I would have no problem with a smart NPC targeting the hilt with a dedicated attack. Doing that is as cannon as Darth Maul.

8 minutes ago, Ryoden said:

So back on the topic of the topic.

I suggest that the rule at:

:means that they cant be affected by the Sunder item quality. And I would even argue that it applies specifically to the energy blade.

I would have no problem with a smart NPC targeting the hilt with a dedicated attack. Doing that is as cannon as Darth Maul.

I would steer clear of codifying the lightsaber as disparate parts when in use, mechanically speaking. "Well you can't sunder the blade, but the bottom of the hilt is fair game"—this basically nullifies the rule that says Lightsabers can't be sundered.

Targeting the hilt could certainly be done. It normally takes two Triumphs to destroy a lightsaber; so, I would make it an aim maneuver: take your normal 2 setbacks; take a further 1 or 2 setbacks, depending on hilt size, because of how exacting your aim needs to be (you can't just hit anywhere on the weapon); and upgrade the Difficulty twice (two Triumphs is a pretty big deal, after all).

A simple disarm attempt would be much easier, just requiring an aim maneuver with the normal two setbacks.

1 hour ago, awayputurwpn said:

I would steer clear of codifying the lightsaber as disparate parts when in use, mechanically speaking. "Well you can't sunder the blade, but the bottom of the hilt is fair game"—this basically nullifies the rule that says Lightsabers can't be sundered.

Targeting the hilt could certainly be done. It normally takes two Triumphs to destroy a lightsaber; so, I would make it an aim maneuver: take your normal 2 setbacks; take a further 1 or 2 setbacks, depending on hilt size, because of how exacting your aim needs to be (you can't just hit anywhere on the weapon); and upgrade the Difficulty twice (two Triumphs is a pretty big deal, after all).

A simple disarm attempt would be much easier, just requiring an aim maneuver with the normal two setbacks.

I'm confused though...if lightsabers can't be sundered but you state you can use 2 triumphs to destroy a lightsaber...how does that work? "Can't be sundered" means they can't be destroyed like that as far as I was aware...so using 2 triumphs to destroy it is going against what it means to have the sunder quality on the weapon. Am I reading this correctly or am I just not getting it?

21 minutes ago, Ender07 said:

I'm confused though...if lightsabers can't be sundered but you state you can use 2 triumphs to destroy a lightsaber...how does that work? "Can't be sundered" means they can't be destroyed like that as far as I was aware...so using 2 triumphs to destroy it is going against what it means to have the sunder quality on the weapon. Am I reading this correctly or am I just not getting it?

"Sunder" is an active quality given to some weapons. FaD Core Rulebook page 164. Lightsabers are immune to this weapon quality, not to being broken.

12 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

"Sunder" is an active quality given to some weapons. FaD Core Rulebook page 164. Lightsabers are immune to this weapon quality, not to being broken.

Okay, that's where I was confused. I thought that if a lightsaber was incapable of being sundered, then it cannot be destroyed...However the combat table on pg. 212 does show that 2 triumphs could destroy a lightsaber. The biggest takeaway for me is that you can't utilize the active quality of sunder against a lightsaber to try and destroy it, but an outright roll that gives you 2 triumphs could, in fact, destroy the lightsaber through the roll itself not the sunder quality.

17 minutes ago, Ender07 said:

Okay, that's where I was confused. I thought that if a lightsaber was incapable of being sundered, then it cannot be destroyed...However the combat table on pg. 212 does show that 2 triumphs could destroy a lightsaber. The biggest takeaway for me is that you can't utilize the active quality of sunder against a lightsaber to try and destroy it, but an outright roll that gives you 2 triumphs could, in fact, destroy the lightsaber through the roll itself not the sunder quality.

Totally. That was the reasoning for my steep cost in the suggested dice pool to try and slice through your opponent's lightsaber.

So going back to the flying capability that the Inquisitor lightsaber had... Would anyone integrate that into their game for a light side PC if they wanted it? Could it follow the rules of a jet pack?

I was thinking about offering it to him as an escape method, similarly to how the inquisitors use it. Maybe give it X number of charges before it has to be recharged due to the amount of power it needs to create lift...

9 hours ago, Ender07 said:

So going back to the flying capability that the Inquisitor lightsaber had... Would anyone integrate that into their game for a light side PC if they wanted it? Could it follow the rules of a jet pack?

I was thinking about offering it to him as an escape method, similarly to how the inquisitors use it. Maybe give it X number of charges before it has to be recharged due to the amount of power it needs to create lift...

... NO!

That was some b******t to let it look cool for kids.

There is no way a light saber can hover a person by just spinning... its just hot light...

In my book, "flying down" is the "imposible fall" talent while spinning your blade.

"going up" is an "enchanced" leap while spinning you blade, or to use "move" on the hilt while grabbing and spinning it (levitate for starters)

16 hours ago, Ender07 said:

So going back to the flying capability that the Inquisitor lightsaber had... Would anyone integrate that into their game for a light side PC if they wanted it? Could it follow the rules of a jet pack?

I was thinking about offering it to him as an escape method, similarly to how the inquisitors use it. Maybe give it X number of charges before it has to be recharged due to the amount of power it needs to create lift...

No I would not integrate it into my game. Why? Because the creators of the show stated themselves that it would only work on a planet that is strong with the Force, such as Malachor where the Inquisitors were able to harness the Dark Side there to enhance their own abilities.

What if I went to Malachor or some similar planet? I still would not allow it.

Yeah, that makes sense. I guess if they didn't want to buy into enhance then they could always just buy a jetpack and call it a day!