8 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Yes ban the official FFG licensed product from events.... also any well worn standard dial would spin just as easily. The dials not the problem.

Never said it was, it didn't make him cheat.. that was all Parker.

But, it would help to prevent nervous players, that fiddle with their dials , during an opponents activation from ever making such a mistake.

Fiddling with your dial when it is not the time for that dial to be revealed is a no-go anyway and should be included in that floor rules, first time offense a warning for even just touching the thing. Second offense an auto-loss.

There is not a single reason to allow someone to touch his own dials after planning phase is over. Currently the rules allow for it, but that point in the rules is unnecessary. If you forgot what you set, you will know soon enough. ;-)
And in the friendly atmosphere of GNK tourneys your opponent can always allow you to still check the dial, regardless of the rules.

1 minute ago, boomaster said:

Never said it was, it didn't make him cheat.. that was all Parker.

But, it would help to prevent nervous players, that fiddle with their dials , during an opponents activation from ever making such a mistake.

Maybe nervous players Shouldn't fiddle with their dials during an opponents activation. Even in the case the pilots have the same skill, the one with initiative always moves first. There was no reason for parker to touch his dial if his opponent was going first, and if parker was moving first, his opponent would be more apt to catch him cheating. This is worlds after all. If your not using crit tokens your doing it wrong.

Also FFG should hand out harsher punishments. You spent $1K to come to this event? You should have calculated that cost into your decision to cheat. If permanent bans, or 6 month bans were a thing there's a chance this wouldn't have happened.

4 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Fiddling with your dial when it is not the time for that dial to be revealed is a no-go anyway and should be included in that floor rules, first time offense a warning for even just touching the thing. Second offense an auto-loss.

There is not a single reason to allow someone to touch his own dials after planning phase is over. Currently the rules allow for it, but that point in the rules is unnecessary. If you forgot what you set, you will know soon enough. ;-)
And in the friendly atmosphere of GNK tourneys your opponent can always allow you to still check the dial, regardless of the rules.

I prefer the competitive play rule that used to be in the FAQ, "After the Planning phase, if a player wishes to look at one of his dials, he must inform his opponent first. Manipulating dials after the Planning phase will not be tolerated."

2 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

I prefer the competitive play rule that used to be in the FAQ, "After the Planning phase, if a player wishes to look at one of his dials, he must inform his opponent first. Manipulating dials after the Planning phase will not be tolerated."

Apparently it will be tolerated and a warning will be given ;-)
SCNR. °_^

Edit:
And to add something less snarky: Keep it simple. No touching means no option for accidentally manipulation and thus is the better rule imho. There is no good reason to allow the checking of the dials after the planning phase.

10 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

There is no good reason to allow the checking of the dials after the planning phase.

Of course there is. Sometimes i forget what I dialed in, especially when I was waffling between choices, and I need a reminder when I'm deciding what actions to take for earlier-activated ships.

There's nothing wrong with checking your dials. Just let your opponent know you're doing it, and do it as non-sketchily as possible. (In other words, do everything exactly the opposite of the way Parker did it.)

1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Of course there is. Sometimes i forget what I dialed in, especially when I was waffling between choices, and I need a reminder when I'm deciding what actions to take for earlier-activated ships.

With that argument there is a reason the change the dial too, because sometimes you entered something you honestly did not want too and sometimes you opponent make a move which you honestly don't want to make.

Requiring to actually remember your move for a minute or two adds to the game. So there is another solid reason not to allow it and consider unrevealed dials as hidden information for both players ;-)

22 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

With that argument there is a reason the change the dial too, because sometimes you entered something you honestly did not want too and sometimes you opponent make a move which you honestly don't want to make.

... Wut?

Quote

Requiring to actually remember your move for a minute or two adds to the game.

... Wut?

I have no trouble with checking or re-checking dials. I only have trouble with changing them. Just say when you're going to do it so it's clear there is no shenanigans going on.

If playing x wing makes someone too nervous there's probably a better hobby out there for that person.

10 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:

If playing x wing makes someone too nervous there's probably a better hobby out there for that person.

Now that is actually a silly claim. Though maybe worlds is not the right place to get over that.

3 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

With that argument there is a reason the change the dial too, because sometimes you entered something you honestly did not want too and sometimes you opponent make a move which you honestly don't want to make.

Requiring to actually remember your move for a minute or two adds to the game. So there is another solid reason not to allow it and consider unrevealed dials as hidden information for both players ;-)

You've never flown a TIE swarm, have you? Anyway there's no problem with picking up one of your dials briefly during YOUR activation just to check what's there. Don't get overzealous with imposing rules more strict than is necessary to prevent the problem.

OK,

So...

I have been been relatively quiet on this but I do want to say a couple of things.

When I flip over a dial and it has moved to a maneuver that I did not dial in, I notice and react.

To say that this was NOT intentional and just a nervous habit or whatever is a hard sell for me when you watch how he reacts to the revealing of the dial.

He does not look like he is shocked that he is no longer doing the crappy move he had chosen when he didn't think the Jumpmaster would bump.

He just moves the HWK in to its now much better position, took the focus action and kept on trucking.

Even acknowledging and accepting that the actual adjustment of the dial was not malicious, his reaction to the changed move can not be anything other than genuine.

If he does not make the ban list after a given amount of "investigation" time by FFG I will be disappointed.

I don't think he deserves any personal abuse for being a cheat but he definitely deserves derision and suspicion when playing anyone at X-Wing.

It will take a lot of games where he does a lot of "flying casual" to earn any trust.

Kris

11 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

You've never flown a TIE swarm, have you? Anyway there's no problem with picking up one of your dials briefly during YOUR activation just to check what's there. Don't get overzealous with imposing rules more strict than is necessary to prevent the problem.

Actually I have ;-)

I'm kinda disappointed that someone would contact his family and his job in this matter! That is so low! Obviously he did wrong and I'm unpleased by the FFG sanctions but who would ever go that far to hunt him down, should be so ashamed of them self's!

13 minutes ago, Zazaa said:

I'm kinda disappointed that someone would contact his family and his job in this matter! That is so low! Obviously he did wrong and I'm unpleased by the FFG sanctions but who would ever go that far to hunt him down, should be so ashamed of them self's!

I agree totally with this.
Im a staunch supporter of hard penalties for cheating, but taking a gaming matter outside of the gaming community is in my opinion outrageous. There is absolutely no reason to contact family, work or friends over the matter. Its an X-Wing matter and as such should stay in our community.

2 hours ago, Zazaa said:

I'm kinda disappointed that someone would contact his family and his job in this matter!

Did somebody actually do this? Confirmed? That's ... that's so ridiculous I'm not even sure how to react. Last time I felt this way was in November.

sigh* the first of many podcast discussions.

I will admit contacting his work and home is not worth the effort over this issue. That effort could be focused elsewhere.

22 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Maybe nervous players Shouldn't fiddle with their dials during an opponents activation. Even in the case the pilots have the same skill, the one with initiative always moves first. There was no reason for parker to touch his dial if his opponent was going first, and if parker was moving first, his opponent would be more apt to catch him cheating. This is worlds after all. If your not using crit tokens your doing it wrong.

Also FFG should hand out harsher punishments. You spent $1K to come to this event? You should have calculated that cost into your decision to cheat. If permanent bans, or 6 month bans were a thing there's a chance this wouldn't have happened.

I'll be honest, I left shouldn't out of my post because I thought I'd implied it enough for the reasons you gave .... clearly not for Mr Guidrey..

There's always that one guy that cheats. Even at my FLGS there's this one guy that has "sloppy" template placement that always just manages to catch the corner of my ships. Since we fly casual I let it go without a word - winning against a cheater is way more rewarding. Tournaments are another matter though.

I don't think being knocked out of the tournament is a good idea - some people really do invest a lot in the events (I've gone to about $400 for a regionals), so a more personal punishment is necessary:

1. Game loss, 200-0. That's pretty obvious.
2. An apology is required, and a decent one at that.
3. At the end of the round, the cheater has to buy the victim a drink of their choice, or $15.

I think that's enough of a deterrent to stop most infractions. Repeat offenses (same day or otherwise) should result in ejection from the tournament.

9 hours ago, Astech said:

1. Game loss, 200-0. That's pretty obvious.
2. An apology is required, and a decent one at that.
3. At the end of the round, the cheater has to buy the victim a drink of their choice, or $15.

That is actually a deal worth taking. Risking $15 and a loss is a small risk in moments when you would get the loss else anyway and have the potential to gain $500 extra. Small risk, huge potential gain, you should take it every time.

Rules against cheating always should make cheating the less attractive choice. And with less attractive I mean from the risk vs reward perspective. It won't stop naturally all cheating, because people are not always rational beings, but it makes everyone else feel less like a fool when cheaters get caught and get away with small punishment. Which might be as well not 100% rational, but seems to be how people usually react to such things.

12 hours ago, Marinealver said:

sigh* the first of many podcast discussions.

I will admit contacting his work and home is not worth the effort over this issue. That effort could be focused elsewhere.

"Not worth the effort"? It is morally bankrupt, childish, and quite frankly legaly questionable. These people took an issue within the game space, that should have consequences staying there (up to a life time ban for example), and did something that warrants legal consequences in real life for them.

6 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

"Not worth the effort"? It is morally bankrupt, childish, and quite frankly legaly questionable. These people took an issue within the game space, that should have consequences staying there (up to a life time ban for example), and did something that warrants legal consequences in real life for them.

Tell me something I don't know, or do you actually think I was one of those people. Yeah I know that unfortunately mob judgement and the socially prevalence of the online community has had some serious side effects. Heck take a look at how many times someone has been harassed over a political statement, called and accused of names and despicable crimes all in the name of social (self)righteousness.

Just one of the reasons why I don't trust any online movement let alone progressive online movements.

On 5/12/2017 at 7:09 AM, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Thanks everyone who blew this into a full-fledged conspiracy/act of treason.
As Gold Sq. Podcast says, third-party live streams "aren't supposed to be [at these events]" -- so if this continues to be a ****ing national tragedy to all of you keyboard warriors, FFG will likely squash all live streams going forward.

"Our response to this cheating scandal is to remove all the cameras."

Yeah, I'm sure that would go over REAL well.

On 12.5.2017 at 1:09 PM, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Thanks everyone who blew this into a full-fledged conspiracy/act of treason.
As Gold Sq. Podcast says, third-party live streams "aren't supposed to be [at these events]" -- so if this continues to be a ****ing national tragedy to all of you keyboard warriors, FFG will likely squash all live streams going forward.

The streams are the main reason to have those events in the first place, keep in mind, organised play is a PR department of FFG, not a x-wing competitive event host. The first and foremost task is to create marketing material for X-Wing and sell the game. And incidents like this one actually can go viral and reach beyond the community. Some controversy is good for marketing as long as it does not reflect to bady on the game or company.