Fast, really fast. But wait this is faster. Yeah its good, but this is better. Lol.... Glad everyone is enjoying the game. I know I am.
Everyone has an opinion. Look at what they had to say about the world's champion deck at the start. My favorite had to be how unconventional it was.
After trying this deck out, it seem rather average to me. I would call it balance and very holocron dependent. Maybe the cards just aren't here yet to make this deck good.
5 hours ago, Mep said:After trying this deck out, it seem rather average to me. I would call it balance and very holocron dependent. Maybe the cards just aren't here yet to make this deck good.
Most of the games I win with ePalp, I haven't pulled Holocron. Palp with a single upgrade (holdout blaster for instance) can put out so much damage in a single round. Very devastating and Holocron ends up being a late play with overkill.
2 hours ago, Back5 said:Most of the games I win with ePalp, I haven't pulled Holocron. Palp with a single upgrade (holdout blaster for instance) can put out so much damage in a single round. Very devastating and Holocron ends up being a late play with overkill.
Not using holdout blaster. Those blue upgrade abilities maybe too expensive, though I do find myself with plenty of resources. His dice are easy enough to control though, which really limits his damage output. He needs Fast Hands in blue or something.
On 5/17/2017 at 2:58 PM, blackholexan said:2) will spend the very first round to just lay down speed force and (above all) a holochron and bounce it back to equip something big (Probe or Lightning) and equip Holochron again (if needed or not having your force speed). First round damages are important only if you have enough to kill Maz (and taking out Electroshoks from the equation), otherwise you focus on Poe and try to have him dead by the end of the second round.
3) will claim aggressively on the second round if you have not enough damage. Activating first on the 3rd round may be crucial to finish one of your characters with a No Mercy (and avoiding a possible Defensive Position / Dug In in the meanwhile)
I have to return to this.
I spent last Friday on local tournament and whole weekend on TTS playing like 50 games in total with Poe/Maz and ePalpatine is hardest matchup for this deck so far. Seems like people finally tuned it up and it starts to be consistent enough to have wins in their favour. Especially the points you wrote up there in quotation are valid. There actually is not too much of defense against him in hero red/yellow decks. As he is the hardest matchup, I started to finetune the deck against him but it still lacks one round of damage usually. Seems like properly run ePalpatine is hard counter to Poe/Maz.
14 minutes ago, Hennessy said:I have to return to this.
I spent last Friday on local tournament and whole weekend on TTS playing like 50 games in total with Poe/Maz and ePalpatine is hardest matchup for this deck so far. Seems like people finally tuned it up and it starts to be consistent enough to have wins in their favour. Especially the points you wrote up there in quotation are valid. There actually is not too much of defense against him in hero red/yellow decks. As he is the hardest matchup, I started to finetune the deck against him but it still lacks one round of damage usually. Seems like properly run ePalpatine is hard counter to Poe/Maz.
We noticed the same in the last 2 tournaments and so far it looks like Poe/Maz-Palpatine matchup is an average 50/50 or 40/60 in favour of Palp.
In our playtests we always have those 2 decks built since if a deck cannot stand those 2, it has no chance to win a torunament.
Nevertheless we noticed another important factor: if Poe/Maz is built to win the ePalp matchup may gain a few issues vs the the other decks, while ePalp has a few slots (within 2 and 4) that can change based on the meta (without losing meaningful choices/tools vs Poe/Maz)
Yep definitely. I already started to differ the deck by quite a lot from the common build presented usually on TTS in favor for tech cards. Also my gameplay changed a bit since the people found out, that killing Poe stops the damage, so I am consistently gearing Maz to damage suit, so she is able to deal like 6 damage by herself at the end of the game (DL-44s and Jetpacks). However Palpatine really makes things hard, as when he has good draw, you really can not do much with him (especially if you do not manage to hit Rise Again with Goggles before he playis it).
Turn 1 Holocron is usually the deal breaker of this matchup, because once he starts rolling 2 of his dice + something like Force Lightning, you are outraced in damage. I am even thinking about adding Disarm just because of Holocron....
3 minutes ago, Hennessy said:Yep definitely. I already started to differ the deck by quite a lot from the common build presented usually on TTS in favor for tech cards. Also my gameplay changed a bit since the people found out, that killing Poe stops the damage, so I am consistently gearing Maz to damage suit, so she is able to deal like 6 damage by herself at the end of the game (DL-44s and Jetpacks). However Palpatine really makes things hard, as when he has good draw, you really can not do much with him (especially if you do not manage to hit Rise Again with Goggles before he playis it).
Turn 1 Holocron is usually the deal breaker of this matchup, because once he starts rolling 2 of his dice + something like Force Lightning, you are outraced in damage. I am even thinking about adding Disarm just because of Holocron....
Disarm is a good call but if you can't hit it on 1st / 2nd round, it becomes a deck card. I run that in a few yellow decks and vs Emperor it usually becomes just a reroll unfortunately.
Besides, looking for Disarm in your opening hand it hurts a bit.
I know it also does not help in second hardest matchup which is mirror (where Friendly Fire feels good). But you really do not have too many options what to use against ePalp to slow him down.
Cunning is viable only when he plays Force Throw, Dodge can be a life saver, Reverse costs too much and I already suited pair of Friendly Fires. There is also a possibility to play Scouts, but you will never manage to hit that Holocron in time. Finally Rey Staff is black horse which I have to test yet, but once you have it on table, it can make some ridiculous use of special every turn, but it is by miles worse than Jetpack in any other matchup.
I ahve to build that Palpatine deck by myself to run with it dozen of games, otherwise it is not possible to play against it reasonably well. :-/
I play ePalp myself, about a dozent games so far. Not one went beyond round 4 (most are ove rin round 3)! Lost 2, won all others (closest was 13 damage on palp, but I decided to discard force illusion for damage when playing no mercy knowing that some damage will come in; all other games were less than 8 damage on palp).
I finetuned as much as possible to fit the actual local meta. The first card that went out was force speed. It's completely unnecessary; it gives you no additional protection (you still have to roll your dice into the pool where they can be removed) and most of the times you need 2 actions only anyways (ranged damage and special). I use Throne Room for BF and whenever I am winning the initial roll it shines (guaranteed Holocron effect on turn one, and guaranteed mind probe or whatever... really powerful).
Bad thing: The game is so fast now that playing tournament style decks isn't really fun anymore. Really, game over in round 3?!
Ok I found a way around to make ePalpatine match at least 50/50 or maybe a little bit favorable for Poe/Maz. So problem solved for now at least.
2x Cunning, Frozen Waste and 2x New orders, 1xMaz Goggles and 2x Friends in Low Places. This suite is together with 2x Electroshock and 2x Defensive Position swithing the win ratio from previous 10-20% to 50-60% win rate.
I've run ePalp in 4 tournaments so far with only 1 loss in 16 games (vs Vader-Guardian). Have only payed Maz-Poe twice tho.
My feel is that the big ticket cards in Poe-Maz like thermal det and u-wing are just less effective against a one character deck. Otherwise the game just comes down to dice removal against Poe.
22 hours ago, AhrimanOrmuzd said:I've run ePalp in 4 tournaments so far with only 1 loss in 16 games (vs Vader-Guardian). Have only payed Maz-Poe twice tho.
My feel is that the big ticket cards in Poe-Maz like thermal det and u-wing are just less effective against a one character deck. Otherwise the game just comes down to dice removal against Poe.
care to share your build? I'm curious what other ePalp decks bring to the field
I'm definitely having a harder time than normal putting together a solid ePalp deck. I definitely favor control but but also want some heavy hitting updrades out to do damage when palps dice get mitigated. Do you guys feel premonitions is essential? I love the idea of it but find myself holding on to it and/or rise again for too long. Force illusion seems nice but also I hate losing some good cards
45 minutes ago, Muffin Man said:I'm definitely having a harder time than normal putting together a solid ePalp deck. I definitely favor control but but also want some heavy hitting updrades out to do damage when palps dice get mitigated. Do you guys feel premonitions is essential? I love the idea of it but find myself holding on to it and/or rise again for too long. Force illusion seems nice but also I hate losing some good cards
I think Force Illusion is essential in ePalp. Because of that I don't run Premonitions. If you mill your Premonitions with Force Illusion you're in for a bad time. Instead I simply play Rejuvenate and Take Cover over Premonition and Rise Again. You give up the potential of 5 healing for the guarantee of 4.
You could always hard-cast Rise.
30 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:You could always hard-cast Rise.
I've never had the opportunity. Either the game is over before it's possible or my opponent sees me get to 3 or 4 and starts rerolling for disrupts. I also prefer not to claim resources as Palp unless I literally have no other choice.
ok, here's my take on the ePalp deck
BF: Throne Room
2x Force Throw
2x Sith Holocron
2x Force Lightning
2x Force Push
2x Force Illusion
2x Mind Probe
2x Now you will die
2x No Mercy
2x High Ground
2x Doubt
Overconfidence
2x Trust your instincts
New orders
2x Isolation
Mind Trick
2x Feel your anger
Use the Force
Not completely sold on Overconfidence, Mind Trick and Use the Force. I want as many removal as possible, so there's really no much choice here. Overconfidence could be used on my own dice if need be, same goes for Use the Force. Mind Trick is almost too expensive, although I tend to remove 2 - 3 dice everytime I play it.
The 2 games I lost (out of 14) were very close, only 1 - 2 hp that I was missing with his last character having less than 3 hp left over. Maybe add some healing?
Suggestions?
Edited by ShaadeaMy Palp is:
2x Force Illusion
2x Hidden in shadow
2x Lure of power
2x Force Choke
2x Force Push
1x Force Lightning
1x Mind Probe
2x Dark presence
2x Interrogation droid
2x Feel your anger
2x High ground
2x Isolation
2x No mercy
2x Now you will die
2x Rise again
2x Rejuvenate
This negates the need for a holocron and allows for an upgrade ramp for 1 cost each round, while saving the other resource for events or to save for rise again.
There are enough discard sides to get good use out of dark presence.
Ideal opening hand is 1x Interrogation droid, 2x Rejuvinate, 2x dark presence. Take a bit of heat in round 1 and forgo the claim but get setup for a good round 2.
I like multiple rise again, so I can feel fine to discard a 3-4 cost upgrade in turn 1 for rerolls, knowing I can get it later.
For that reason I am not shy to claim resources from Palp. Hopefully he has a Lure of power to get a few bonus resources.
I'm not sold on Lure of Power for Palp. It has 2 blank sides, not so cool. When I first build my ePalp I had it in there too along with Anger, but it didn't work out as planned :-)
Same goes for Dark Presence, I could never get it work, not enough dice that could trigger it - I didn't add the droid of course (I would add Force Choke to my deck if I had any... although it's not helping against Poe/Maz).
How's your win ratio?
On 5/26/2017 at 2:43 AM, Shaadea said:care to share your build? I'm curious what other ePalp decks bring to the field
I've been running the deck in a few configurations, but this is the core:
I have been running the deck with 2 x Force Speed as well. I would probably have another mind probe as well but I don't have two of them. I've also tried using the interrogation droid support.
The deck runs as a fast damage deck (obviously) but it can be very advantageous to use the discards as well. If you hit a discard and the +1 or +2 on the Lure of Power, it can really ruin your opponents turn. It also makes your dice manipulation like Force Push and Manipulation very powerful if they can't re-roll.
Edited by AhrimanOrmuzd
the problem I had with dark presence: while in theory it sounds good (great dice control) I claimed the BF more often than my opponent. So I started the round and had to roll my dice in (no upgrade on hand or too expensive, nothing else to play since all other stuff is also dice control), so even when I hit the discard there were no dice in his pool to remove. That happened several times in 5 games, so I dropped the card. Do you simply pass then, or how do you get Dark Presence to work in such cases?
Dark presence is great but it is only a bonus and should not be relied on. I usually roll out first where possible (often the first action) but it still works with re-rolls and support dice (like the interrogation droid). It may not effect every game but it is a 0 cost support, so not much cost in using it.
8 minutes ago, AhrimanOrmuzd said:Dark presence is great but it is only a bonus and should not be relied on. I usually roll out first where possible (often the first action) but it still works with re-rolls and support dice (like the interrogation droid). It may not effect every game but it is a 0 cost support, so not much cost in using it.
Opportunity cost is a thing.
On 5/26/2017 at 6:06 PM, Shaadea said:I'm not sold on Lure of Power for Palp. It has 2 blank sides, not so cool. When I first build my ePalp I had it in there too along with Anger, but it didn't work out as planned :-)
Same goes for Dark Presence, I could never get it work, not enough dice that could trigger it - I didn't add the droid of course (I would add Force Choke to my deck if I had any... although it's not helping against Poe/Maz).
How's your win ratio?
I like Lure of Power a lot in Palp. Along with Holocron and Force Speed it really helps to activate Anger, which I've loved in Vader/Raider and have found a reason to run in Palp now. I dropped Dark Presence in my deck because I often found myself rolling first to try and avoid mitigation, and obviously if you do that it's useless.
I've also switched to Cargo Hold since it literally can't be used against a solo character deck and it can do some nasty things to other decks.