EDIT: A lot of people are taking this thread the wrong way, so I've added clarification after the card picture in this post.

Hopefully this doesn't offend anyone, but this courier looks different than the 99% of the other cards I've seen. Is there a story there? I mean, it's just that all the other females on cards I've seen so far for the game could be runway models. This card just doesn't fit with that theme for me. I'm not saying that all women need to look like models, just that this is a bit strange to me in this context.

Clarification:

On 5/13/2017 at 1:36 AM, Builder2 said:

A fair point. I think the problem is that some are perceiving sexism on your part, real or imagined, intentional or unintentional, and are acting in response to that rather than the topic question at hand. It might have been better to frame your question in the manner of, "Why are all the girls in this game smokin' hot?" versus "Why is this one girl not hot?" TL;DR you probably should've stopped digging that hole when you said you would.

Yes, clearly I didn't write the OP correctly. There was no hint of me saying I preferred women to look like runway models though, but some people seem to have jumped to that conclusion. It was honestly just a question about lore for this specific character. The only question in the OP is "Is there a story there?". I suppose because I put in parts about not wanting to offend people and digging holes that that's why some people took it the wrong way. I used to play Netrunner and the World Champion got his face/torso put on a card. So, I was thinking, maybe the story is that someone won a Championship and said they wanted to be put on a card as a courtier. That is why I put the part about not wanting to offend anyone. I'm new to L5R and am not sure how the "altering the lore through winning" stuff worked. Below is the Netrunner example that I was referring to. Anyway, writing, and communication, is not my forte. Sorry for the confusion.

I see where you're coming from but I think it can simply be chalked up to different art styles. Also, this may just be an older courtier?

The androgyny might be deliberate, so the character works for male or female. I actually assumed it was a slightly effeminate man, honestly. I would guess the flower in the hair is the clue it's a woman? Or is there some other cue I'm missing.

I really don't see the problem here. She's a proud Cran... Otomo lady.

18 minutes ago, slowreflex said:

So... how to put this in a non-offensive way... well... I'll just be blunt and hope I don't offend anyone... This courier looks particularly manly. Is there a story there?

There is! Back in the CCG days, there was a Crane dude who was the master of disguising himself as a woman. He has quite a few pieces of art while being a (very ugly) woman. I think this one must be one of those. Probably came as "generic courtier pic" or something like that, and someone at FFG decided to use it as an Otomo Courtier.

I figured it was an older woman with a build like Lucy Lawless.

So, anyone want to take odds on whether "the existence of a thread on the topic of how comment-worthy it apparently is that there is a female depicted on an L5R card who someone doesn't think is hot/feminine enough" becomes the subject of my next L5r mini-rant on the podcast?

(the next episode we record, not the one we recorded yesterday that will probably go up later today)

I assume from your comment that the odds are pretty high

I don't necessarily think it's worth the time, though, since the explanation is straightforward. This is fantasy artwork. Both the men and women will be good looking by default. If they are not, then there is a story reason behind it - possibly a sign of corruption, possibly for comedic effect (more typical of ugly men than women), or at the least something notable. The Otomo courtier appears to differ from the convention, and there's at least a mild curiosity as to why, since there's no obvious explanation at the moment.

Actually, I see AtoMaki has proposed a reason having to do with re-used art of a man disguising himself as a woman. Assuming he's right, that would be a story reason for it (at least, in the original, if not in this case.) But it points out that varying from the convention is usually done for a reason, and not just for the sake of it.

Here is the other piece of official art about him I know.

I'm not betting against the person who determines the content of their podcast.

Is it historically plausible in AEG-era L5R for a non-Crane to dye their hair? I'm thinking specifically of those who might have Crane blood in their recent ancestry.

27 minutes ago, Daramere said:

So, anyone want to take odds on whether "the existence of a thread on the topic of how comment-worthy it apparently is that there is a female depicted on an L5R card who someone doesn't think is hot/feminine enough" becomes the subject of my next L5r mini-rant on the podcast?

(the next episode we record, not the one we recorded yesterday that will probably go up later today)

Maybe you should do a mini-rant on why some people like to turn an innocent question into something perverse?

Or maybe why some people miss-quote others based on conclusions they've jumped to without evidence?

Or maybe why some people think a thread isn't comment worthy, but still post a comment in it?

Feel free to use any of those... no royalty charges...

1 hour ago, slowreflex said:

So... how to put this in a non-offensive way... well... I'll just be blunt and hope I don't offend anyone... This courier looks particularly manly. Is there a story there? I mean, it's just that all the other females on cards I've seen so far for the game could be runway models. This card just doesn't fit with that theme for me. I'm not saying that all women need to look like models, just that this is a bit strange to me in this context. I think I'll just shut-up before I dig a hole deeper.

From an art point of view: art be art.

From a genetics point of view: genetics do not care about what you think.

From an in game point of view: for all we know, she may be like a south korean woman unhappy with her asian eyelids and square mandible, but without access to plastic surgery. Or not, because she may be very happy with her looks. In any case, good luck to you if you dare to question an Otomo about her looks in a probably non favourable way. Or question her far from her but near a Scorpion spy. Also, nowhere it is said that the Otomo Courtier is a woman. Unless more of the art for that character is reused, it may be an otoko no ko.

Also, and just in case:

20 minutes ago, Builder2 said:

Is it historically plausible in AEG-era L5R for a non-Crane to dye their hair? I'm thinking specifically of those who might have Crane blood in their recent ancestry.

Sunetra, one assumes, given the blue eyes and that Hachi was her brother.

Hope this isn't rude, but I honestly thought this Courtier was a man up until now, just with a weird hairdo. I chalk it up to the angle of the picture being a bit unconventional, it's looking up from below her chin and is canted slightly to the right. Now that I look at it more closely, though, it's clearly a woman with a strong jaw. Guess I'm just easily confused :).

This was discussed in another thread:

2 hours ago, Builder2 said:

Is it historically plausible in AEG-era L5R for a non-Crane to dye their hair? I'm thinking specifically of those who might have Crane blood in their recent ancestry.

Also from the same thread, in the Hantei era, at least in the old canon, it was common for marriages between the Crane clan and the imperial families to happen. I think the RPG acknowledged the limited marriage pool by having Crane characters receive extra xp from the epilepsy disadvantage.

1 hour ago, slowreflex said:

Maybe you should do a mini-rant on why some people like to turn an innocent question into something perverse?

Or maybe why some people miss-quote others based on conclusions they've jumped to without evidence?

Or maybe why some people think a thread isn't comment worthy, but still post a comment in it?

Feel free to use any of those... no royalty charges...

I'm a little baffled at how one can open a thread that they acknowledge could be deemed controversial, only to get this defensive when they get a negative reaction.

2 hours ago, slowreflex said:

So... how to put this in a non-offensive way...

Much like "I'm not a racist, but...", there's no way to begin a sentence with your example and then not be offensive.

2 hours ago, MrMenthe said:

I really don't see the problem here. She's a proud Cran... Otomo lady.

Actually that is the one thing I found interesting about the art.

That it looks more like a classical Crane then a Otomo. I would not mind the Otomo Craning up a bit, but it is at face value a weird choice of art.

19 minutes ago, Yandia said:

Actually that is the one thing I found interesting about the art.

That it looks more like a classical Crane then a Otomo. I would not mind the Otomo Craning up a bit, but it is at face value a weird choice of art.

Recycled art, I reckon. Kinda like the Miya Shugenja who, as I recall, is actually recycled art of a Tamori... Not that thrilled about some of the uses of recycled art, to be honest, but FFG owns it, they're gonna use it as they see fit.

With the Imperials never having been a major faction in the CCG, there's a lot more clan samurai art floating around. With that said, when you have the art for Otomo Demiyah, Otomo Suikihime, and Otomo Banu, to name just three who seem to fit the general art vibe they're going for, it does seem odd to have selected a Crane to use.

5 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Recycled art, I reckon. Kinda like the Miya Shugenja who, as I recall, is actually recycled art of a Tamori... Not that thrilled about some of the uses of recycled art, to be honest, but FFG owns it, they're gonna use it as they see fit.

With the Imperials never having been a major faction in the CCG, there's a lot more clan samurai art floating around. With that said, when you have the art for Otomo Demiyah, Otomo Suikihime, and Otomo Banu, to name just three who seem to fit the general art vibe they're going for, it does seem odd to have selected a Crane to use.

Sure it is recycled art and I don't mind it to much...

I don't mind the Miya Shugenya so much. The art is quite non-descriptive.

I think many art pieces would have been a better fit for the Otomo then a quite obvious Crane. Perhaps this one:

http://imperialassembly.com/oracle/showimage?prefix=printing&cardid=5816&nestid=1&class=details&tagid=34&hash=d2/fb,425,600,image/jpeg

46 minutes ago, Yandia said:

That it looks more like a classical Crane then a Otomo. I would not mind the Otomo Craning up a bit, but it is at face value a weird choice of art.

It looks like a crane because FFG reused an illustration depicting a Crane Courtier. That was the joke

I think they should have done some modifications on the art (changing some colours or something). We don't like to give awesomeness to others that easily.

The first picture looks like a 'run of the mill' middle aged woman. Not sure how people are coming to the conclusion that she is "manly".

7 hours ago, Daramere said:

So, anyone want to take odds on whether "the existence of a thread on the topic of how comment-worthy it apparently is that there is a female depicted on an L5R card who someone doesn't think is hot/feminine enough" becomes the subject of my next L5r mini-rant on the podcast?

(the next episode we record, not the one we recorded yesterday that will probably go up later today)

If you rant about the fandom because one guy posted a thread with a dumb premise, the problem might not be with the fandom.