It is a dark time for the EMPIRE. Although the MANAROO has been nerfed, SCUM ships have driven the Imperial forces from their safe choices and pursued them across the galaxy.

Evading the dreaded ASSAJJ VENTRESS, a group of Imperial defenders led by CAPTAIN OICUNN has established a new list that utilizes Swarm Leader.

The evil pilot BIGGS DARKLIGHTER, obsessed with defeating the EMPIRE once and for all, has dispatched thousands of clones into the far reaches of space....

So, yeah.

I've been thinking about Swarm Leader, which has several key problems in use:

1) A lack of cheap Evade feeders

2) Being attached mostly to frail EPT carriers which can be arc dodged or revenge killed

3) Having a big target on it which means that you also need a separate pilot to close the deal.

The Empire pretty much solves #1 with Academy Pilots. But #2 is harder, because we players keep reaching for things like Inquisitor, Vader, and so on to carry Swarm Leader for the Empire. Quickdraw is closer to a good solution, but I don't think he's the BEST solution.

I'm thinking... the Decimator and a pair of Academies.

First of all, the Deci takes serious punishment to put down. Even one round of concentrated fire from three ships can't destroy it in a single turn, and it's probably going to hurt something seriously with multiple chances of Swarm Leader proc'ing.

At its bare minimum, with Oicunn and Swarm Leader with a pair of Academies, it leaves 31 points to have a fourth ship - perfect for an Omega Leader. It also leaves room to upgrade to Chiraneau or Kenkirk, or do other upgrades, I'm just not sure where the best solution is here.

You could go Fat Deci, but I'm not such a big fan of that with MOV being what it is now. Better to give up fewer of your own points as a pinata while the rest of your list closes. Besides, it's a different kind of Deci - no arc dodging with EU tomfoolery, just raw damage output. The fact that it's easy to hit means that the fire hopefully won't be directed at your Academies, and the threat of a 5-dice PWT with modifications of some kind also means that OL will survive to the endgame.

I don't know if it's good, but it's out of the box thinking that might help the Empire get back its past glory.

Perhaps put "Youngster" w/ Expose in the list, and a third Academy Pilot? "Youngster" might draw fire away from your Academies...maybe?

With excellent maneuvering/timing, you may even be able to have everyone (except "Youngster", who would of course take the Evade) use Expose fairly early, say turn 2 or 3, but that's still a lot of unmodified dice...

"Youngster" w/ Marksmanship?

The thing you learn with Swarm leader is you want as many ships as possible. With many being lower PS you either are required a high Ace to use them first and risk them being wiped with unmodified green dice, or you put it on a Lower PS Ace who can use it once othe ships have shot at you and you see what your working with from there.

Swarm leader (SL) Deci cool.

SL carrier needs to be able to modify dice as well, and not be relaying on their EPT to deliver other needed benefits (VI, PTL etc).

"Best" use of Swarm leader I can see is therefore Vessery. Who can evade, get a focus, use ability to TL for 5-6 fully modified dice and still has evade for defence. But Deci is also good (especially RAC who can TL, get his free focus adjustment). But usually leaves limited support points.

Any SL list also needs another threat to work well... otherwise SL carrying gets killed too quickly. Swarm RAC + Inquisitor and an academy can work OK for this. Inquisitor (with PTL) can threaten with his TL and Focus, and his free evade for SL use. Problem is only 3 ships, and usually you want 4 for a SL list (hence why I think Vessary is best overall).

Anyway.... enjoy!

This was my take on a RAC Swarm Leader:

RAC Tap (99)

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (61) - VT-49 Decimator
Swarm Leader (3), Rebel Captive (3), Kylo Ren (3), Dauntless (2), Engine Upgrade (4)

Sienar Test Pilot (19) - TIE Adv. Prototype
TIE/v1 (1), Autothrusters (2)

Sienar Test Pilot (19) - TIE Adv. Prototype
TIE/v1 (1), Autothrusters (2)

The TAPs are pretty efficient at the evades, although at their PS they do need to be in a bit closer for the title/TL/evade. There is room on the Deci to shave points to bump them up to Barons and get to PS4.

To be honest, it never occurred to me put Swarm Leader on the Decimator, but I'm finding I like the way it looks on paper. I think I'll give this a try this weekend:

Oicunn w/ Swarm Leader and Tactical Jammer (46)

"Youngster" w/ Marksmanship (18)

3x Academy Pilots (36)

RAC - Swarm Leader (49)

Omega Leader - Juke, Comms (26)

2 x Academy (24)

1 point for a bid, T Jammer, intel agent...

Get a 5-6 dice turret with TL and RAC ability with OL to clean up he mess.

11 hours ago, Dave Grant said:

RAC - Swarm Leader (49)

Omega Leader - Juke, Comms (26)

2 x Academy (24)

1 point for a bid, T Jammer, intel agent...

Get a 5-6 dice turret with TL and RAC ability with OL to clean up he mess.

I'm torn between this build and Oicunn w/ Swarm Leader & BoShek to threaten Protectorates with autodamage and dial meddling. Come into Range one of ME, will you...

On 5/10/2017 at 10:44 PM, iamfanboy said:

I don't know if it's good, but it's out of the box thinking that might help the Empire get back its past glory.

Its not really 'out of the box thinking'. It doesn't take a genius to figure out bonus attack dice are powerful. Swarm Leader is a terribly designed card and is yet another example of how the game designers really don't seem to understand the nuances of the underlying principles of the game's rules (or they just don't care and are perfectly happy 'fixing' broken cards after the fact through FAQ changes)

Anyway, as to your post, and the ease of building a powerful Imperial squad using Swarm Leader, I think absolutely that Decimator + Academies is the right starting point. Decimator is a logical choice given its durability and the fact its a turret. You don't need to worry about an 'endgame element', however. All you have to do is ensure that your 5-6 attack 'super gun' is getting TL + Focus every time it shoots. That really is the priority in a list of this nature:

Oicunn w/ Swarm Leader, systems officer, Ops Spec, hotshot co-pilot & Dauntless = 56

Howlrunner w/ VI = 19

2 academy pilots = 12 each

99

Its a dead simple list to use: fly it straight at the enemy, and always evade with the TIE/LNs (just make sure you stagger your TIEs a bit, otherwise later on they won't have the ship you want to destroy in arc and therefore cannot feed swarm leader). Oicunn probably cannot get TL for the first turn of shooting, but Howlrunner helps there. After the first turn, its pretty much TL + focus for the rest of the decimator's time on the board, and it should be throwing 5-6 attack dice every time.

Ops Spec + Swarm Leader is borderline OP. People just haven't figured it out yet. This is exactly the sort of list that is going to further destroy 'game balance' since the original game design hinged upon the idea of keeping attack/defense dice relatively balanced with each other. It is simply not appropriate for game balance to allow 6, 7, 8 or even 9 attack dice into the game (especially when its so easy to make them fully modified!).

Don't get me wrong though. This is not an 'auto-win' list (but its moving in that direction!). If the derp designers release another card that can be combo'ed with Swarm Leader and Ops Spec, then it will most likely become an 'auto-win' list even worse than Dengaroo ever was...

3 minutes ago, blade_mercurial said:

Its not really 'out of the box thinking'. It doesn't take a genius to figure out bonus attack dice are powerful. Swarm Leader is a terribly designed card and is yet another example of how the game designers really don't seem to understand the nuances of the underlying principles of the game's rules (or they just don't care and are perfectly happy 'fixing' broken cards after the fact through FAQ changes)

Anyway, as to your post, and the ease of building a powerful Imperial squad using Swarm Leader, I think absolutely that Decimator + Academies is the right starting point. Decimator is a logical choice given its durability and the fact its a turret. You don't need to worry about an 'endgame element', however. All you have to do is ensure that your 5-6 attack 'super gun' is getting TL + Focus every time it shoots. That really is the priority in a list of this nature:

Oicunn w/ Swarm Leader, systems officer, Ops Spec, hotshot co-pilot & Dauntless = 56

Howlrunner w/ VI = 19

2 academy pilots = 12 each

99

Its a dead simple list to use: fly it straight at the enemy, and always evade with the TIE/LNs (just make sure you stagger your TIEs a bit, otherwise later on they won't have the ship you want to destroy in arc and therefore cannot feed swarm leader). Oicunn probably cannot get TL for the first turn of shooting, but Howlrunner helps there. After the first turn, its pretty much TL + focus for the rest of the decimator's time on the board, and it should be throwing 5-6 attack dice every time.

Is Oicunn here solely because of points available? Seems like you need to find 3 points to go to RAC. Maybe drop the hotcop? Or the VI/Title? I think with RAC's extra mod it is worth a shot to get to him.

6 minutes ago, Rolotamasi said:

Is Oicunn here solely because of points available? Seems like you need to find 3 points to go to RAC. Maybe drop the hotcop? Or the VI/Title? I think with RAC's extra mod it is worth a shot to get to him.

Why do you need RAC?

You want the lower PS because Hotshot means the ship you want to destroy will most likely shoot first and must use its token. Then when Oicunn shoots, he has at least 5 attack dice with TL+ focus and the defender loses that token for defense.

Oicunn also has his extra damage from bump (in case your opponent is clever and tries to protect the damaged ship by blocking your decimator)

Oicunn also allows you to fit Howlrunner who does 3 things: shoots first to get the Ops Spec focus generation going early, and gives you the much needed re-roll in the first turn that Oicunn shoots (although RAC doesn't need Howlrunner as much, admittedly). Lastly, Howlrunner is a tempting target. You don't care if Howlrunner dies, and its a bad choice for your opponent to shoot her first instead of Decimator...

If anything, I might consider dropping Systems Officer for an ion bomb on Oicunn.

I like Oicunn myself for those very same reasons - low PS blocking. However, Systems Officer seems useless in this build - it helps out his buddies, kinda, but he also wants them to miss thanks to Op Spec. I also disagree with Howlrunner - with the focus from Op Spec, Oicunn will be TL'ing every turn anyway, so why bother with Howlie's mini-TL?

Having an endgame closer is 'belt and suspenders' play - there will be times when the Deci just won't be able to close the gap.

Though, I think the main weakness of the list might be Thug Lyfe TLT spam... the Deci can't erase a Y-Wing in one round, and that's what is probably needed. Four TLTs will erase a Deci in 2 turns. Perhaps using PTL Inquisitor as a fourth ship and closer with Oicunn? It has another Evade that the Deci can draw on, and the two of them can probably dish out damage.

It means nothing on Oicunn but Swarm Leader, but that might be all it needs. Besides, MOV being what it is, the fewer points for Oicunn to give up as a pinata the better.

"Ignoring the endgame" seems a really bad idea in any list.

Squeezing everything you want / need into a list is always a fun puzzle.

Rac; Swarm Leader (49)

Inquisitor: PTL, Title, AT (31)

Adv Proto: Title, AT (19)

Has less redundancy and blocking (only 3 ships) but 2 ships that are great vs TLTs if needed, and have strong support shots with TLs.

or drop AT from Sinear for a 3 point crew of choice on Deci (a lot of options there).

19 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

I like Oicunn myself for those very same reasons - low PS blocking. However, Systems Officer seems useless in this build - it helps out his buddies, kinda, but he also wants them to miss thanks to Op Spec. I also disagree with Howlrunner - with the focus from Op Spec, Oicunn will be TL'ing every turn anyway, so why bother with Howlie's mini-TL?

Having an endgame closer is 'belt and suspenders' play - there will be times when the Deci just won't be able to close the gap.

Though, I think the main weakness of the list might be Thug Lyfe TLT spam... the Deci can't erase a Y-Wing in one round, and that's what is probably needed. Four TLTs will erase a Deci in 2 turns. Perhaps using PTL Inquisitor as a fourth ship and closer with Oicunn? It has another Evade that the Deci can draw on, and the two of them can probably dish out damage.

It means nothing on Oicunn but Swarm Leader, but that might be all it needs. Besides, MOV being what it is, the fewer points for Oicunn to give up as a pinata the better.

A couple things:

Oicunn CANNOT get TL the first turn of shooting. Usually. I'm also not sold on Systems Officer, but I can see it being very useful for the TIEs, especially if Howl bites it early. Its a utility card that will help in the long game, especially given the lack of strong endgame ship. The nice thing about Target Locks is they don't go away at the end of the turn, allowing you to spend them when you really need them (even a lowly academy TIE can put some hurt on with TL + Focus in range 1).

You can't build a list like this that is 'take-on-all-comers'. Its simply not possible. If you want a list of this nature, you go 'all in' on the super gun and hope to get more ideal matchups in your tournament rounds than bad matchups. Its a gamble in that sense. For example, you don't care about how you will deal with 4 TLT y-wings, because not only is it a very rare matchup, but you can't beat that list no matter what you do (if you want to include a decimator super gun), so there's no point in building a contingency into the list for it.

You cannot build a good Decimator + Inquisitor + 2 academy list in 100 points. You have to sacrifice too much on the decimator to fit in Inquisitor. Oicunn + Swarm Leader does not score enough damage to make his points worthwhile. You either spend more to make the super gun work, or don't bother with it at all.

17 hours ago, Dave Grant said:

"Ignoring the endgame" seems a really bad idea in any list.

Squeezing everything you want / need into a list is always a fun puzzle.

Rac; Swarm Leader (49)

Inquisitor: PTL, Title, AT (31)

Adv Proto: Title, AT (19)

Has less redundancy and blocking (only 3 ships) but 2 ships that are great vs TLTs if needed, and have strong support shots with TLs.

or drop AT from Sinear for a 3 point crew of choice on Deci (a lot of options there).

Again, that RAC ain't going to cut it. You don't have enough points to get the most out of the super gun. Also, you have too few ships. With only 3 ships on the board, you are not getting the most out of Swarm Leader. Keep in mind that the game will not always go the way you want. You can't always get the ideal firing scenarios. In your list, you will rarely get to roll more than 4 attack, and you will only sometimes have them fully modified. There are a number of builds and tactics that can be used to counter your build and beat it. You just don't have the tools in that list to get good value out of Swarm Leader, in my humble opinion.

Sure Imperial builds usually want an 'endgame ship' like Inquisitor (I sure as hell know, because I fly mostly Imperial and have been playing for over 5 years). But you simply cannot build a good "super gun" list AND fit in a good endgame ship. Maybe Omega Leader could be squeezed in, but he's not actually a good endgame ship (contrary to popular belief).

Don't get me wrong. I'm not pooing on people's ideas just to be mean or whatever. I'm speaking from a competitive high level tournament perspective. If you want to succeed in that kind of environment, 'bare bones' decimators will not get the job done. You are weak to blocking, weak to autothrusters, weak to more effective super-gun builds (such as Swarm Leader Norra, Swarm Leader Rey, Kanan-biggs, Bossk+Ketsu alpha strike or Dengar + Tel alpha strike etc). That's just too many bad matchups to do well, frankly.

Edit: oh yeah, forgot one thing: Inquisitor is NOT a good 'swarm leader' Evade donor. Especially with RAC. think about it: Let's say you are up against Ventress, or Vessery, or Norra, or Rey or another potentially hard-hitting list that shoots after your PS 8. If you strip Inquisitor's Evade to power up RAC's shot, you are potentially giving away your 'endgame ship' early on....it would only work if you can gaurantee to dodge enemy arcs with Inquisitor and still get your target lock (for the evade). Very situational...

So you're saying double down on the bet rather than trying to hedge it? I disagree.

I think we have a fundamental difference on how we view the Swarm Leader Deci. I see it as an endgame ship delivery system; you see it as the game winner by itself. That's also why I'm not a fan of RAC in the driver's seat.

Visualize a seat across the table. You see a Decimator with Swarm Leader, two Academies feeding it Evades, and their endgame ship. Do you 1) Try to trade with the Deci, leaving him with Academies and his ideal closer, or 2) chase down his Academies and closer, hoping that the Deci doesn't kill you faster?

The valid choice most are going to make is to try and trade with the Deci. It's big, almost half the list for MOV is bound up in it, and it's going to do serious damage if you DON'T kill it. So, knowing their target priority, why are you giving them more points?

This train of thought is what led me to Inquisitor. He

1) Shuts down autothrusters

2) Has autothrusters himself, letting him do work against the TLT-carriers of the metagame

3) Can feed Evades into the Oicunn Railgun if the Academies get arcdodged

4) Wants to be at R3 (perfect against Protectorates)

5) Can deal sufficient damage in concert with the Oicunn Railgun to kill a Biggs in the first exchange of fire

6) Moves at the same PS as Miranda, giving you at least a CHANCE of not having clusters dropped in your face

Yes, you have to give up a lot on the Deci in order to fit him in, but it's worth it IMHO. The plan is use Oicunn to scalpel out the ships that would actually beat Inqy, and once he's dead you block with the Academies and snipe with Inquisitor - or if they're fools enough to go after your Inqy, you ram and shoot and ram and shoot with Oicunn.

You have valid points, but you're not playing a metagame here - controlling your opponent by your choices - just a regular game where you hope your choices carry you to victory.

2 hours ago, blade_mercurial said:

You can't build a list like this that is 'take-on-all-comers'. Its simply not possible. If you want a list of this nature, you go 'all in' on the super gun and hope to get more ideal matchups in your tournament rounds than bad matchups. Its a gamble in that sense. For example, you don't care about how you will deal with 4 TLT y-wings, because not only is it a very rare matchup, but you can't beat that list no matter what you do (if you want to include a decimator super gun), so there's no point in building a contingency into the list for it.

Or to put my POV more succinctly:

You say it's a bad thing that Oicunn is going to get killed.

I say that Oicunn being killed is expected and planned for, as long as he deals enough damage on the way to let my endgame closer finish the job. 5-6 dice with TLs is probably enough to do just that.

Interesting thoughts in both camps. Certainly local Meta's can and do dictate actions. Any thoughts given to Navigator for oicunn? If you can move him to a safer location to shoot from and minimize return fire? Perhaps a TIE Shuttle instead of Howlrunner? To carry a intel agent, though you do give up an evade so perhaps less desirable.

As for Inquistor, I really don't like the idea in a Swarm Leader list. For those points a few more ships just makes since. And if you're worried about Quad TLT's Inquisitor might draw fire but with only 4 HP's consecrated fire on him is going to delete him as easily as it can work to remove the Decimator. More targets and shots going at the TLT ships the faster they go down.

I ran Rear Admiral w/ Swarm Leader, TacJam, Weapon Engineer, and Systems Officer. TacJam was fairly useless, situational at best. Had two Academies, and "Scourge" w/ Expose. Turn two, "Scourge" and RAC had a lock on Blue Ace, ChiChi's was Focus-assisted, and only managed to plink two shields. Turn three lost both Academies, "Scourge" in four after getting Blue Ace down to 2 Hull and stripping shields from Nora. Turn five, RAC smoked Blue Ace, then stripped shields from Nien. Meanwhile, by turn eight, Nora had regened her shields. Bien flew circles beyond three and Nora began the whittling process, so I called it.

My. Dice. Hate. Me. Both Academies were one-shot, and "Scourge" lasted twice as long against two range 3 shots. For my part, it took WAAAAY too long to focus down Blue Ace.

Had a thought last night and wanted to see what anyone thought. I love my interceptors I miss my interceptors so...

Commander Kenkirk:Swarm Leader, Inspiring Recruit

X2 Saber Squadron Pilot:PTL, Autothrusters

The thinking here is make the deci a little tankier keeping the big gun going longer and having 3-4 att wingman to put more pressure offensively. The lack of att mods on the squints hurts and I thought a lot about targetting computer instead of thrusters. You get focus of course and ptl gives you a turtle option of sorts so you aren't just an evade *****. Inspiring recruit just helps against stress hogs as a stressed squint is a dead one. Thoughts?

This is probably a touch empty on upgrades for most people, but what about:

VT-49 Decimator: · Captain Oicunn (42)
· Swarm Leader (3)
Tactical Jammer (1)
TIE/fo Fighter: Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Comm Relay (3)
TIE/fo Fighter: Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Comm Relay (3)
TIE/fo Fighter: Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Comm Relay (3)
-- TOTAL ------- 100p. --

The Epi's are PS1, so always move first, and Comm Relay lets them bank their Evade, freeing actions for Focus or Barrel Rolls as needed. Oicunn wants to be in the thick of it, so giving him TacJam made sense for 1 point. The extra shield and maneuvers on the Epi's also mean you'll always have your target in Arc, and the Epi's are more durable than plain academies (though you are paying the points for it).

It's funny triple Epi FOs were just mentioned, because this topic inspired me to put together a vessery swarm leader build with the inquisitor and 2x Epi FOs. Still need to put it on the table but it seems really fun to my somewhat inexperienced self.

"Nuketown"

5 Dice PWT is Awesome, now to make sure those Dice are hit

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give thee....Targeting Synchronizer

Oicunn with Swarm Leader, Dauntless, and Darth Vader (Crew) (50)

Omega Leader with Juke and Targeting Synchronizer (26)

Zeta Ace with PTL and Targeting Synch (24)

The plan is simple, Rush into a bump for free damage, take a focus, your Ties target lock from range 3 (ideally) Zeta pushes for an evade, Oicunn Takes Zeta's Evade and Omeg's Comm Relay Evade, Oicunn Uses the Target Lock tat Zeta has with Target Synch. Activate vader, 6 damage with a Garenteed Crit BOOM, now thats what I call a Death Star.

How does OL have both comm relay and target sync? Think you've got a little error there.

53 minutes ago, DarthCognis said:

"Nuketown"

5 Dice PWT is Awesome, now to make sure those Dice are hit

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give thee....Targeting Synchronizer

Oicunn with Swarm Leader, Dauntless, and Darth Vader (Crew) (50)

Omega Leader with Juke and Targeting Synchronizer (26)

Zeta Ace with PTL and Targeting Synch (24)

The plan is simple, Rush into a bump for free damage, take a focus, your Ties target lock from range 3 (ideally) Zeta pushes for an evade, Oicunn Takes Zeta's Evade and Omeg's Comm Relay Evade, Oicunn Uses the Target Lock tat Zeta has with Target Synch. Activate vader, 6 damage with a Garenteed Crit BOOM, now thats what I call a Death Star.

Um FYI you have a Targeting Syncronizer on Omega Leader.

45 minutes ago, Ronu said:

Um FYI you have a Targeting Syncronizer on Omega Leader.

...right!?