27 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

the goal is to get EVERYONE down to the Tie Fighter Standard.

Considering most of the ships in this game are supposed to be better than the TIE Fighter, that is a terrible goal.

Just now, Stevey86 said:

Considering most of the ships in this game are supposed to be better than the TIE Fighter, that is a terrible goal.

In case you arnt being intentionally obtuse...

The Tie Fighter Standard means Howlswarm. IF howlswwarm cant compete, other stuff is too cheap for it's power.

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

So, though he wasn't around from the original Core Set, was Palp's pre-nerf any more "game warping" to the game than Biggs? I would wager they both have/had amazing game control powers, one controlled one dice post roll, one controls who you can roll dice at.

I'd not actually considered this but perhaps the Palp nerf was more to do with opening up design space as opposed to nerfing the OP OPness.

3 minutes ago, Smutpedler said:

I'd not actually considered this but perhaps the Palp nerf was more to do with opening up design space as opposed to nerfing the OP OPness.

I would not like to see old Palp and TLT in the same list...

15 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

In case you arnt being intentionally obtuse...

The Tie Fighter Standard means Howlswarm. IF howlswwarm cant compete, other stuff is too cheap for it's power.

We lost that standard a long time ago. It's obsolete.

1 minute ago, SabineKey said:

We lost that standard a long time ago. It's obsolete.

Really? I could have sworn it had a revival with the howlcrack.

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

So, though he wasn't around from the original Core Set, was Palp's pre-nerf any more "game warping" to the game than Biggs? I would wager they both have/had amazing game control powers, one controlled one dice post roll, one controls who you can roll dice at.

11 minutes ago, Smutpedler said:

I'd not actually considered this but perhaps the Palp nerf was more to do with opening up design space as opposed to nerfing the OP OPness.

So wouldn't a Biggs nerf do the same thing for X-Wings/Rebels?

3 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Really? I could have sworn it had a revival with the howlcrack.

So a new card brought back up to snuff with everything else, not bringing things back down to their level.

I would make R2-D2 and any other "perform green action" actually complete the action, no bumping/overlap aloud. I would also like regen to be limited to original shield value only. Of course these really don't affect play much anymore, not like Fat Han/Corran days.

Just now, SabineKey said:

So a new card brought back up to snuff with everything else, not bringing things back down to their level.

The problem is that tie fighters dont have upgrade slots, and therefore have limited options for "being brought up to snuff."

Elsewhere I've suggested a 0 point modification for ties, but that's beyond the scope of errata- the point is to bring the outliers in line so a tie fighter buff doesnt make bwings obsolete, and so on down the line.

1 hour ago, mkevans80 said:

All crits are not created equal. Not even close. The crit that prevents you from doing straights? I can't think of a time that has had any effect on me whatsoever. Getting a stress token? Depending on the ship that takes it, not a big deal at all.

I do think Damaged Engine is another one of those "oh f*ck me" type crits, mostly because it has no way to be fixed. I would also add a way to repair the engine, like so many other crits have, or a way to mitigate it somehow (such as losing your action to keep the turn from being red).

Eric Zhang lost his 7th game at Naboo, and his chance at the 7-0 target lock, because of Shaken Pilot.

Basically, all you've demonstrated is that some crits effect you more than others, based on the type of ships you tend to bring. But the point is, pretty much all the crits are pretty devastating to some squads, and some are easier on some squads.

All of that said, blinded pilot is probably appropriately devastating, which is the point. If anything, I'd argue we should find a way to buff or replace Shaken Pilot with a more damaging critical effect.

16 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

Cost changes:

TLT: +1 point (sorry Tie aggressor)

Contracted scout: +2 points

Dengar, Tel, Manaru +1 point each

Biggs: +2 points (but see Integrated Astromech)

R2D2: +1 point

Nera, Farlander, Ibstan, Ten Numb: -1 point

Erratta:

Integrated Astromech: add "You may equip an additional modification"

Bwing E2: add "your crew cost 2 less points"

Attani Mindlink: add "If you are unstressed"

Advance Slam: add "then receive a stress"

Hobbie Kilvan: add an elite talent to this ship

I see 0 mention of the imperial faction... why?

-Why would you add a mod to integrated astromech? It's already an amazing mod for 0 cost. I dont know how many times i've seen Biggs survive one extra round because of it.

- Attani: just make it a free focus action.

-Biggs: Dont change the cost. Add "if the attacker could target you instead and is inside your firing arc".

-Contracted scout: Dont change the cost. Just remove the EPT. Another solution that would probably balance all versions of the Jumpmaster at the same time: remove the barrel roll.

-Advanced SLAM: adding a stress wont change the reason why it's so good. Need to add: "you cannot drop bombs after a SLAM". It's not normal that 1 ship is far superior to any other at droping bombs. That or give SLAM to the Punisher.

-I think it's a bad idea to implement 2 fixes at the same time for the same ship (Bwing). 1 at a time and see the effect before adding more if needed. The -2pts on crew might be enough.

You forgot:

-ALL ships with a regular front arc primary weapon, 2 attack dices and no secondary weapon upgrade can roll an extra attack die after reroll and modification. That die cannot be modified in any way.

- All ships with a combination of hull/shield lower than 4 are allowed to roll their agility dices to counter bomb damage. The number of defense dices rolled cannot exceed the total potential damage of a bomb. For example if a bomb can do at the most 1 damage, the ship is allowed 1 defense die. Once rolled, all defense dices cannot be modified or canceled.

- Range 3 bonus on defense is now allowed when dealing with any kind of weapons.

- Sabine: change the damage part to "roll an attack dice, on a hit or crit that ship suffers one damage"

- Miranda: I dont know how to fix her but she's too good at the moment. If the TLT and bomb

- Shadowcaster and VCX are undercosted as well. Add 2 points to the cost.

- Tie Punisher: lower cost by 3 points and give EPTs to named pilots

- Tie advanced: can equip autothruster as a second modification. Must still pay the price.

- Tie Phantom: can equip advanced cloaking device as a title. Must still pay the price.

-Tie/X7: New text changed to "After doing a 3-4 or 5 speed maneuver, if you did not overlap an obstacle, you may assign 1 evade token to your ship"

-Palpatine: New text changed to: "Once per round, you may change a friendly ship's die result to any other dice result. If used on a defense or attack die, it must be done before reroll and modifications. That die result cannot be changed again."

-Grand Moff Tarkin: Now usable on all ships. Changed to range 1-3.

It's a lot of changes but in the end we would get back to a balanced meta. The old stuff would be viable again and we would have hundreds of potent builds instead of just a few.

3 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

The problem is that tie fighters dont have upgrade slots, and therefore have limited options for "being brought up to snuff."

Elsewhere I've suggested a 0 point modification for ties, but that's beyond the scope of errata- the point is to bring the outliers in line so a tie fighter buff doesnt make bwings obsolete, and so on down the line.

But that means you yourself agree that currently, TIE fighters do not make a good baseline in their current state.

1 minute ago, SabineKey said:

But that means you yourself agree that currently, TIE fighters do not make a good baseline in their current state.

Tie fighters make a good floor for "endless cycles of nerfing." You know when to stop when tie fighters are good.

2 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Tie fighters make a good floor for "endless cycles of nerfing." You know when to stop when tie fighters are good.

Good floor, not a good standard.

Just now, SabineKey said:

Good floor, not a good standard.

It's a good standard when EVERYBODY hits the floor.

Just now, clanofwolves said:

So wouldn't a Biggs nerf do the same thing for X-Wings/Rebels?

I think that's different because everything since the Core set has been designed with Biggs in mind. Remove the design datum and you have a mess of a faction. If Biggs were a relatively new addition that would be a different story. Every Rebel ship and ability has been designed with Biggs in mind where as a huge chunk of the Imperial arsenal existed before Palp.

As I said earlier too; I think there are plenty of tools to deal with Biggs these days. If he's a heavy contender in your meta; pack some tools for the job

2 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

It's a good standard when EVERYBODY hits the floor.

Or you can raise the floor to better keep in step with the new design space. I have more confidence in the design of things that came out in the mid waves than I do the early ones, so the idea of using those early waves as the design standard seems to discount the lessons and new ideas that X-Wing has had over it's life.

1 minute ago, SabineKey said:

Or you can raise the floor to better keep in step with the new design space. I have more confidence in the design of things that came out in the mid waves than I do the early ones, so the idea of using those early waves as the design standard seems to discount the lessons and new ideas that X-Wing has had over it's life.

And if you were in charge of FAQs, I'm sure they'd be much more moderate.

But for this thread, I direct you attention back to the title. As "bad" as tie fighters are, the nerfings will continue until their situation improves.

2 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

And if you were in charge of FAQs, I'm sure they'd be much more moderate.

But for this thread, I direct you attention back to the title. As "bad" as tie fighters are, the nerfings will continue until their situation improves.

Until someone thinks that they are op, which people did back at the beginning of the game. See? The spiral of nerfing doesn't have a defined end point. So instead of digging down, let's build up.

1 minute ago, SabineKey said:

Until someone thinks that they are op, which people did back at the beginning of the game. See? The spiral of nerfing doesn't have a defined end point. So instead of digging down, let's build up.

I disagree. If someone thinks tie fighters are op, that's time for a buff... but no earlier. That's what makes tie fighters a standard.

4 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

I disagree. If someone thinks tie fighters are op, that's time for a buff... but no earlier. That's what makes tie fighters a standard.

And I disagree with you, as it seems others do as well.

1 minute ago, SabineKey said:

And I disagree with you, as it seems others do as well.

such as?

29 minutes ago, Thormind said:

You forgot:

-ALL ships with a regular front arc primary weapon, 2 attack dice and no secondary weapon upgrade equipped can roll an extra attack die after reroll and modification. That die cannot be modified in any way.

Fixed, And HWKS can roll 2!

8 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

such as?

I've gotten a couple of likes, which isn't nothing. My point is your use of the TIE fighters as a standard is an opinion and one that is not unopposed.