13 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

The action and range limit is a nerf for everyone. It just also happens to hit palob, guri and kaato. Palob was in the top 4 at worlds (#1 in swiss) and 2 more in the top 32. Guri works quite well with it as well. The specific pilots may not need nerfs, but it removes another option to "cheat" the mindlink into free focuses. You also failed to mention manaroo in the list of nerfed pilots...

Mindlink is a single point. It should be about as usable as Wired.

Making the gained focus into a focus action makes using mindlink with kturns quite difficult, yes, but it's still just 1 point. Just dont use red moves, and watch out for stress control.

1 minute ago, Rakaydos said:

Mindlink is a single point. It should be about as usable as Wired.

Making the gained focus into a focus action makes using mindlink with kturns quite difficult, yes, but it's still just 1 point. Just dont use red moves, and watch out for stress control.

Stress passing is just too big a downside if you make the focus passing anfocus action instead of granting a token.

19 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Absolutely not. What competition does is amplifying the little efficiency delta between a restrited selection of the best available stuff. In competitions, you want to have the best chances, even if the difference is really small, because in the long run, it could matter. But that means that if two ships are similarily good, if one of those is just a tiny bit less efficient, or just a tiny biy less safe to play, it will mostly not be chosen over the other one. That does not make it a bad ship.

Apart from this, I think Empire has a lot of good options, just a little bit less interesting than some OP stuff that rule worlds. They, in my opinion, have a lot more "good" ships than the other factions. But yeah, no more mindless overefficient jousters; and IMO, that's a good thing that should be aimed to achieve for other factions, not the other way around.

Or competetion collects all the best ships, because others are not good enough. You can speculate if that means that some ships are too good or others bad. Just look at the ship rankings and then tell me that every ship is nearly good as the other. Check also the Defender and Palpatine rankinkgs before and after the nerf.

Empire used to have competitive, good builds, not "mindless overefficient jousters". All factions have less-played ships and there´s a reason for it.

1 hour ago, Giledhil said:

Competition does not make the game, but is just a tiny bit. Also, at thay level, we should talk about the "place" of ships, not factions, since factions are less relevant.

Get rid of scum JM-attani and Sabine crew, x7s are now the thing again. Does that make Imperials OP ? I don't think so. We should focus on overall balance, not faction balance.

I do think that JM and Mindlink needs to be changed, but that the change needs to be done with great care. Imperials have a strong set of ships and they are not played simply because the Scum ones are stronger. I am convinced that if the torp scouts go away, Defenders, SFs and Strikers will be great.

If I were to make a change I would give each JM a +2 (or perhaps +3) cost and give the Mindlink a +1 (or perhaps a +2) cost and thats it. I think (but will admit that I am not sure!) that Miranda can be handled by rough tough imp aces when they are not alpha struck out of the meta. Biggs could use a change, but I have no real view on how.

I honestly don't think an FAQ will ever be able to fix some of these things.

X-Wing needs an errata pack. A one off card-only box, with reprints of every card needing a rewording or a points change. And new dials for some of the ships.

2 hours ago, Pretty Green said:

Or competetion collects all the best ships, because others are not good enough. You can speculate if that means that some ships are too good or others bad. Just look at the ship rankings and then tell me that every ship is nearly good as the other. Check also the Defender and Palpatine rankinkgs before and after the nerf.

Empire used to have competitive, good builds, not "mindless overefficient jousters". All factions have less-played ships and there´s a reason for it.

So basically you want each faction to have a few OP ships so that they are "square". That would make competitive events be at best dominated by 6 ships/pilots instead of 4. Doesn't sound like a step forward to me.

On the other hand, I think that nerfing the few overefficient things then carefully buffing the mass of subefficient oldies would achieve way more, both in competitive and casual play.

The "reason" for having less played ships is a problem of bad balance, due to overcomplexification of the game, some miscalculations from the dev team, and of course (volontary) power creep.

Ps : yeah, x7s and Palp (or even manaroo) where of mindless use. That's why they where errated.

26 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

So basically you want each faction to have a few OP ships so that they are "square". That would make competitive events be at best dominated by 6 ships/pilots instead of 4. Doesn't sound like a step forward to me.

On the other hand, I think that nerfing the few overefficient things then carefully buffing the mass of subefficient oldies would achieve way more, both in competitive and casual play.

The "reason" for having less played ships is a problem of bad balance, due to overcomplexification of the game, some miscalculations from the dev team, and of course (volontary) power creep.

Ps : yeah, x7s and Palp (or even manaroo) where of mindless use. That's why they where errated.

Don´t get me wrong, I´d love to see more ships to see play from each faction. But as it is, some ships are better than others and will see more play. I don´t think that will ever change.

Sure, I agree with the reasons behind some ships that don´t get played.

How Palpatine and x7´s were "mindless use", care to elaborate? They weren´t dominating any tournamets, or too good at anything, so do you have anything to back that claim? See the meta-ship rankings for my reference.

4 minutes ago, Pretty Green said:

How Palpatine and x7´s were "mindless use", care to elaborate? They weren´t dominating any tournaments

No but every list had either Palp, x7s or both in it.

They both required zero forethought. Dial in a 3+ speed, doesn't matter what's in the way, get a free evade. Had a bad dice roll? No probs, just Palp it.

Imperials are now the most balanced faction in the game.

Just because a lot of non-Imperial stuff still needs looking at does not mean the Palp and x7 "nerfs" weren't the right call for them.

1 minute ago, Stevey86 said:

No but every list had either Palp, x7s or both in it.

They both required zero forethought. Dial in a 3+ speed, doesn't matter what's in the way, get a free evade. Had a bad dice roll? No probs, just Palp it.

Imperials are now the most balanced faction in the game.

Just because a lot of non-Imperial stuff still needs looking at does not mean the Palp and x7 "nerfs" weren't the right call for them.

No forethought? Well that´s not just true. You had to choose if you use Palpatine on offence or defense without knowing the dice rolls for both. And even then you payed a gigh price for him and his ride.

3+ speed for Defenders? Predictable as hell, it can easily ruin your game if your opponent knows all the time your maneuvres.

Every list did not have them. So what if they were good and saw a lot of playing? They weren´t winning tournaments.

Rebel and Scum lists hold pretty much the same ships too, does that mean FFG has to nerf cards every time some card sees more play than the others?

11 minutes ago, Pretty Green said:

Rebel and Scum lists hold pretty much the same ships too, does that mean FFG has to nerf cards every time some card sees more play than the others?

Short answer, yes.

Lets look at things in a vacuum for a minute.

We have an Imperial only tournament, what do we see? A bit of everything.
Rebel only? A ton of Biggs and Sabine/bombs.
Scum only? JM5K, torps, Mindlink.

FFG need to fix the other 2 factions, not re-break Imps.

13 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

I think Imperials are in a pretty good place right now, actually.

You mean internally, not in comparison to rebels and scum, right? ;-)

7 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

Short answer, yes.

Lets look at things in a vacuum for a minute.

We have an Imperial only tournament, what do we see? A bit of everything.
Rebel only? A ton of Biggs and Sabine/bombs.
Scum only? JM5K, torps, Mindlink.

FFG need to fix the other 2 factions, not re-break Imps.

But there´s no vacuum. The game is what it is.

Imperials were never broken to begin with.

Just now, Pretty Green said:

But there´s no vacuum. The game is what it is.

Imperials were never broken to begin with.

I give up. No reasoning with some people.

13 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

I give up. No reasoning with some people.

Oh, but if YOU say Imperial were broken (without any reference, I might add), it must be true!

Congratulations, Sir!

7 minutes ago, Pretty Green said:

Oh, but if YOU say Imperial were broken (without any reference, I might add), it must be true!

Congratulations, Sir!

AS A FACTION! My god it's like banging my head against a brick wall here!

Palp and x7 WERE in a disproportionate amount of Imperial lists.

Biggs and Sabine ARE in a disproportionate amount of Rebel lists.

Jumps and Mindlink ARE in a disproportionate amount of Scum lists.

Just because FFG have failed miserably to sort out the other 2, doesn't mean that the Imp nerfs were wrong. And lets be honest, the only reason people are salty about it is because they've made the conscious choice to limit themselves to 1/3 of a game experience.

1 minute ago, Stevey86 said:

Just because FFG have failed miserably to sort out the other 2, doesn't mean that the Imp nerfs were wrong.

Well put. There seems to be a lot of salty imperial players around here who are annoyed because they took the hardest hit in the first of many steps towards improving game balance.

I can understand complaints about the need to nerf the jumpmaster and mindlink, biggs and sabine/miranda. What I really can't understand is people screaming for x7 and palp to be un-nerfed.

Hopefully this time near year all of the factions will have improved internal balance. What we really don't need is to go back to a system where each faction is allowed 2-3 broken things which just get played over and over.

Quote

Contracted scout: +2 points

Quote

TLT: +1 point (sorry Tie aggressor)

I like all of them, except for the two above.

FFG has failed to bring the JM5Ks in line with the rest of the game several times now. Just remove the EPT option for generics and increase the base cost by 3+ points.

TLT is on par with HLC, which costs 7 points. Either allow the defender to get the range (defensive) bonus at R3, or increase the cost by 2 points.

Quote

Well put. There seems to be a lot of salty imperial players around here who are annoyed because they took the hardest hit in the first of many steps towards improving game balance.

Actually, no.

The reason for the salt is that the nerf is just like Wave 5 all over again, and the reign of fat Han before (and after) that.

15 minutes ago, Keffisch said:

Actually, no.

The reason for the salt is that the nerf is just like Wave 5 all over again, and the reign of fat Han before (and after) that.

You'll have to show your workings there.

14 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

Cost changes:

TLT: +1 point (sorry Tie aggressor) - nope. Make TLT require a TL to fire, like the forth coming Slaved Turret.

Contracted scout: +2 points

Dengar, Tel, Manaru +1 point each

Biggs: +2 points (but see Integrated Astromech)

R2D2: +1 point - Why? Did the little fella dominate worlds?

Nera, Farlander, Ibstan, Ten Numb: -1 point

Erratta:

Integrated Astromech: add "You may equip an additional modification"

Bwing E2: add "your crew cost 2 less points"

Attani Mindlink: add "If you are unstressed" - similar to a suggestion I made on a different post, essentially make Mind Link operate the way X-7 Title now operates.

Advance Slam: add "then receive a stress" - change to, only ordinance with a cost of 3 pts or lower may be used after a SLAM action (with Adv Slam equipped).

Hobbie Kilvan: add an elite talent to this ship

So, no more K-Wings then. Drop a bomb, stressed and weapons disabled... put my proposed amendments to your recommendations in italics.

Just a hunch but I'm guessing you fly mostly Imperials?

Just make Contract Scout unique and Mindlink Small Ship only.

Mindlink is great because the Shadow Caster and Jumpmaster have fantastic dials.

3 minutes ago, the1hodgy said:

Just make Contract Scout unique and Mindlink Small Ship only.

Mindlink is great because the Shadow Caster and Jumpmaster have fantastic dials.

This is the big problem. And it's one that can't be done with subtle wording changes.

Both of those ships should not have green hard turns.

The scout needs to lose the EPT. All Jumps need to lose the 2nd torp slot.

My money is that Extra Munitions will get the small ship treatment before Mindlink does.

1 hour ago, Stevey86 said:

No but every list had either Palp, x7s or both in it.

They both required zero forethought. Dial in a 3+ speed, doesn't matter what's in the way, get a free evade. Had a bad dice roll? No probs, just Palp it.

Imperials are now the most balanced faction in the game.

Just because a lot of non-Imperial stuff still needs looking at does not mean the Palp and x7 "nerfs" weren't the right call for them.

Love your thoughts as always. If this is true @Stevey86 --which is a quite logical thought-- then why was the Imperial faction specific nerf (I know Degaroo was killed in the Scum faction, but other OP Scum mechanics --worst being the JM base stats and MindLink-- were left untouched as well as obvious Biggs, Miranda and Sabine on the Rebel side) done just before Worlds? It quite literally killed the entire top squads of one faction, whereas the other "non-Imperial stuff" that "still needs looking at" remain not only unscathed, but we're boosted by the now neutered third faction. It seems you either clip off ALL the very top performers of each faction to give balance within each faction better footing all in one FAQ, or you leave the high outliers in each faction so they all have a shot at the top table and keep the overall game ballanced. One way or another, not the way they did it, never that way....never that way.

42 minutes ago, Keffisch said:

I like all of them, except for the two above.

FFG has failed to bring the JM5Ks in line with the rest of the game several times now. Just remove the EPT option for generics and increase the base cost by 3+ points.

TLT is on par with HLC, which costs 7 points. Either allow the defender to get the range (defensive) bonus at R3, or increase the cost by 2 points.

Sweet! Old Fenaroo comes out unscathed!

50 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

AS A FACTION! My god it's like banging my head against a brick wall here!

Palp and x7 WERE in a disproportionate amount of Imperial lists.

Biggs and Sabine ARE in a disproportionate amount of Rebel lists.

Jumps and Mindlink ARE in a disproportionate amount of Scum lists.

Just because FFG have failed miserably to sort out the other 2, doesn't mean that the Imp nerfs were wrong. And lets be honest, the only reason people are salty about it is because they've made the conscious choice to limit themselves to 1/3 of a game experience.

As I stated before, some ships will always see more play than others. That´s not a reason to nerf something, now is it?

You will always find something that are "in a disproportionate amount", so do you really want nerfing every 6 months or so to the ships that you happen to see more at the top?