6 minutes ago, Doji Tori said:

Considering we still have 40 card dynasty decks, but we no longer run gold producing holdings, plus conflict deck personalities, it does seem far more likely we'll see a bit of every family, even if for no other reason than to fill space. If we can asume the old proportions of 'personalities with a trait' and 'cards that interact with the trait' are still valid we could play with multiple keywords without crippling ourselves.

No longer needing gold-producing holdings is going to open up a LOT of deck space!

I also noticed we now have an answer about there being an opportunity to play Conflict cards or use actions before any conflict is actually declared.

1 minute ago, Buhallin said:

What makes you think that the Crab won't have access to equal or even better military boosts?

I didn't think that Crab won't have access to equal or even better military boosts. I just mentioned that it seems pretty easy for mil boosts across the board.

26 minutes ago, Spawnod said:

I love the back and forth in this example, but I feel like both sides committed quite a bit of resources to one conflict. Maybe the game will not have more than two to three conflicts per round (three being a stretch). In a way that would be kinda neat.

I think there will typically be less action in a conflict than this one.

We already know most of the rule stuff in the article so let's look at the cards.

Phoenix

Shiba Peacemaker - I would have liked to see the Yojimbo trait on this guy, just cause. He's a cheap, high military skill wall and that might be his big drawback. Pending on the rest of the clan, this guy will likely be cut from most Phoenix decks as the card pool increases.

Seeker of Knowledge - A bit pricy but it might be worth it as a political ambusher in decks. Because you can change the element to Air, Crane and Scorpion might actually run her. That's potentially four honor from two successful conflicts (2 from the seeker and 2 from the air ring) or the lose of 2 honor from your opponent.

Dragon

Agasha Swordsmith - Pretty simple card but a Dragon player will probably end up spending 3~4 fate on this guy to keep him around for the extra card drawing. It does mean he might be might be an easy target for the Void ring or other removal. Aside from that, you can't knock free cards in a clan that loves attachments. Didn't notice the Shugenja trait till later on in the article too, so it provides the potential for spells too.

Ancestral Daisho - Here's our Rancor and that Ancestral keyword will ensure that this card will be a stable in Dragon decks and any other deck that wants to spend the 2 influence. So, expect it in Lion, Crab, Unicorn, or anyone else that wants a cheap, reusable force bonus.

Unaligned

Cloud the Mind - I could get used to spells like this, even if the effect is very standard. It's a cute trick but blanking cards aren't typically used in card games. That being said, it might find some usage because of the temporary nature of personalities and the ability to blank someone's personality with several fate counters on it could be quite handy for the cost.

Fine Katana - Aggressively costed but most decks will probably run the Ancestral Daisho before it. That being said, it might find a home in decks that want the military bonus or like attachments.

For Shame! - Oh yeah, talk about a courtier stable. Expect to be annoyed by it often.

Banzai! - Another staple card so expect to see this a lot. It has the advantage over For Shame! by the virtue of being more useful to just about any deck.

The Agasha Swordsmith seems insanely good. Lots of shuffling, though.

13 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

Ancestral Daisho - Here's our Rancor and that Ancestral keyword will ensure that this card will be a stable in Dragon decks and any other deck that wants to spend the 2 influence. So, expect it in Lion, Crab, Unicorn, or anyone else that wants a cheap, reusable force bonus.

Fine Katana - Aggressively costed but most decks will probably run the Ancestral Daisho before it. That being said, it might find a home in decks that want the military bonus or like attachments.

I do not know. 2 Influence is a pretty steep cost to include when there are likely other uses of that influence that might be better for your deck.

The 1 Fate cost is also a serious factor.

1 minute ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

I do not know. 2 Influence is a pretty steep cost to include when there are likely other uses of that influence that might be better for your deck.

The 1 Fate cost is also a serious factor.

Yeah, 2 fate is two turns of a character. Decks that rely on higher cost, more powerful characters are unlikely to use this. Could see Lion playing it to pump.

1 hour ago, Katsutoshi said:

Crane a shugenja-light clan ? What ? Crane shugenjas are second in number to the Phoenix only, in the world of Rokugan. Or am I wrong ?

While Gaffa has addressed this, just to chime in- Crane may have plenty of Asahina who sit around desperately wanting everyone to be nice, but they very seldom turned up in force during the CCG- especially once experienced version are factored in.

By use of Oracle, searching for shugenja personalities across the CCG's entire history:
Crab- 49 total cards

Crane- 48

Dragon- 81

Lion- 36

Mantis- 88

Phoenix- 292

Scorpion- 51

Spider- 49 (also note that the Spider weren't actually a faction all that long, so this total is relatively high when set against their total personality base of 244, about twenty percent of the Spider Clan's cards were shugenja, while the Crane percentage is 48 out of 435, for about 11%)

Unicorn- 76

Only the Lion fielded fewer shugenja cards than the Crane in the CCG.

37 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

Cloud the Mind - I could get used to spells like this, even if the effect is very standard. It's a cute trick but blanking cards aren't typically used in card games.

But it's really common in FFG card games.

1 hour ago, Katsutoshi said:

Crane a shugenja-light clan ? What ? Crane shugenjas are second in number to the Phoenix only, in the world of Rokugan. Or am I wrong ?

I think Mantis would have since they are susposed to have one on each ship (actually I think someone figured out that means they'd have more thent he Phoenix).

But the Mantis don't exist..........

The Scorpion have two Shugenja families..........they might be the #2, but the Crane would be top 3 for sure.

2 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

While Gaffa has addressed this, just to chime in- Crane may have plenty of Asahina who sit around desperately wanting everyone to be nice, but they very seldom turned up in force during the CCG- especially once experienced version are factored in.

By use of Oracle, searching for shugenja personalities across the CCG's entire history:
Crab- 49 total cards

Crane- 48

Dragon- 81

Lion- 36

Mantis- 88

Phoenix- 292

Scorpion- 51

Spider- 49 (also note that the Spider weren't actually a faction all that long, so this total is relatively high when set against their total personality base of 244, about twenty percent of the Spider Clan's cards were shugenja, while the Crane percentage is 48 out of 435, for about 11%)

Unicorn- 76

Only the Lion fielded fewer shugenja cards than the Crane in the CCG.

I don't think you can use the whole history as a good way to judge, for much of hte games history a lot of those clans had no real use for Shugenja. I'd say you have to look at Emperor and beyond when they made an effort to give each family a theme and some focus.

Just now, kempy said:

But it's really common in FFG card games.

I'm referring to usage when playing, not the number printed.

@Shiba Gunichi There are Crane shugenja in the ccg, but how many will actually be in the core set? I expect one to pop up but that might be about it. The positive is that there at least a neutral shugenja for every clan.

13 minutes ago, SlackerHacker said:

Yeah, 2 fate is two turns of a character. Decks that rely on higher cost, more powerful characters are unlikely to use this. Could see Lion playing it to pump.

2 fate? It only costs 1 fate. Did you mean 2 influence? Cheap, reusable pump isn't a bad thing. The issue of fate can be alleviated by choosing the rings with fate on them, as I can see some of the swarm decks focusing on that to generate more fate.

2 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

I'm referring to usage when playing, not the number printed.

Blanking effects are really common for FFG and quite frequently used in the competitive space.

Milk of the Poppy is still a very powerful card in GoT 2.0 and that was from the core set as well.

2 minutes ago, Jedi samurai said:

I don't think you can use the whole history as a good way to judge, for much of hte games history a lot of those clans had no real use for Shugenja. I'd say you have to look at Emperor and beyond when they made an effort to give each family a theme and some focus.

Why not?

The Phoenix (clearly) have the most and use them the most, with the mystically-inclined Dragon and shugenja-reliant Mantis filling out the medal podium.

The Unicorn (who had an entire army dedicated to shugenja use until Chagatai used them up) come in fourth.

The Crab, Crane, Lion and Scorpion all had them (and the Lion and Crane in particular got to pump their numbers with Emperor and ivory Edition shugenja themes), but they were never presented as a primary aspect of the Clan in the fiction, nor in the CCG.

6 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

2 fate? It only costs 1 fate. Did you mean 2 influence? Cheap, reusable pump isn't a bad thing. The issue of fate can be alleviated by choosing the rings with fate on them, as I can see some of the swarm decks focusing on that to generate more fate.

It costs 2 Fate to get more use out of Ancestral Daisho than Fine Katana. If only played once per game Fine Katana is better, if played 2 times its 2 Fate for an "additional card," if played 3+ times its 3+ Fate for 2+ "cards."

I think the big take a ways from this article are this:

There is a pre-conflict action window before conflicts are declared.

Honored->Neutral->Dishonored will only move one degree in either direction, unless there is a card that contradicts this rule.

Face down provinces are revealed when the attack is declared against them.

So mostly just a confirmation of things than many had been expecting and not a gray deal of new information. However just this example of a basic conflict does seems to capture the same feel that Old5R was going for in the combat phase but wasn't always great at delivering.

To me it seems there will be some strategy just in how assignments are made when conflicts are declared. Jenny in the example could have very well sent fewer units to the battle in an attempt to win another ring in her second battle and still possibly.took a province. Alex could have just let it through and tried to take a ring of his own. I think this back and forth of the conflict phase is something Old5R rarely gave us.

Also, Alex made a pretty rookie mistake of not using Isawa Masahiro's ability on the Togashi Initiate as his first action, especially since he changed the elemental ring to Fire to enable the ability on the first place. If there had not been a shugenja on Jenny's side to start the battle I would say it's ok to pass on Masahiro to try and get more value but knowing Cloud the Mind is a possibility Alex should have used the ability right away. Sure he goes down 3 skill by Masahiro being bowed but it removes the initiate completely which prevents Kenney from further boosting the Seeker of Enlightenment. Even if Jenny still wins and breaks the province she ends up having to play more cards and Alex is in a position where he wouldn't have to have played 3 extra cards and 3 extra fate to achieve the same outcome.

28 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

It costs 2 Fate to get more use out of Ancestral Daisho than Fine Katana. If only played once per game Fine Katana is better, if played 2 times its 2 Fate for an "additional card," if played 3+ times its 3+ Fate for 2+ "cards."

Except for the Fine Katana, you get that single usage and there's no card disadvantage either. I'll settle for a small fate cost to have a reusable, reliable military power.

@Danwarr: How about often, as a percentage, is it used? I've been looking at resources like whitebook and can't find too many outside of a Lannister deck/banner. Usually as a 2x, although attachments don't seem to be in favor at the moment in the lcg. By that, I mean roughly 2~5 are used in a deck. The other problem is that shugenja requirement, which Milk of the Poppy doesn't have.

@Ishi Tonu: It's just an example conflict so I don't expect stellar plays or decisions. You should look up the combat examples in some of the old MtG rulebooks.

Just now, Ishi Tonu said:

I think the big take a ways from this article are this:

There is a pre-conflict action window before conflicts are declared.

Honored->Neutral->Dishonored will only move one degree in either direction, unless there is a card that contradicts this rule.

Dave down provinces are revealed when the attack is declared against them.

So mostly just a confirmation of things than many had been expecting and not a gray deal of new information. However just this example of a basic conflict does seems to capture the same feel that Old5R was going for in the combat phase but wasn't always great at delivering.

To me it seems there will be some strategy just in how assignments are made when conflicts are declared. Jenny in the example could have very well sent fewer units to the battle in an attempt to win another ring in her second battle and still possibly.took a province. Alex could have just let it through and tried to take a ring of his own. I think this back and forth of the conflict phase is something Old5R rarely gave us.

Also, Alex made a pretty rookie mistake of not using Isawa Masahiro's ability on the Togashi Initiate as his first action, especially since he changed the elemental ring to Fire to enable the ability on the first place. If there had not been a shugenja on Jenny's side to start the battle I would say it's ok to pass on Masahiro to try and get more value but knowing Cloud the Mind is a possibility Alex should have used the ability right away. Sure he goes down 3 skill by Masahiro being bowed but it removes the initiate completely which prevents Kenney from further boosting the Seeker of Enlightenment. Even if Jenny still wins and breaks the province she ends up having to play more cards and Alex is in a position where he wouldn't have to have played 3 extra cards and 3 extra fate to achieve the same outcome.

Dammit Alex!

11 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Dave down provinces are revealed when the attack is declared against them.

Reasonably certain we knew this already.

13 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

@Danwarr: How about often, as a percentage, is it used? I've been looking at resources like whitebook and can't find too many outside of a Lannister deck/banner. Usually as a 2x, although attachments don't seem to be in favor at the moment in the lcg. By that, I mean roughly 2~5 are used in a deck. The other problem is that shugenja requirement, which Milk of the Poppy doesn't have.

A fair number of the top decks from 2015, so core set year, and 2016 ran Milk of the Poppy. I agree, Cloud the Mind is more conditional with the shugenja requirement, but it remains to be seen if that is truly a hindrance or not.

FFG has printed similar effects like Nightmares, which is also fairly popular, or these cards from 40k Conquest. It's a fairly popular mechanism for FFG to use and is generally pretty powerful considering some characters have very potent effects.

As of this article it seems confirmed that there is no visible difference, save for the bamboo of influence, between dynasty and conflict characters. Given this, I hope we can assume that FFG will drop their sleeve opacity rule and allow players to use clear sleeves in tournaments if they so choose, as this is the only way of showing which deck a character belongs to to an opponent who may not be familiar with it. Unless of course any and all conflict characters have an influence cost.

Um, there is. Near the bottom right, before the number and set symbol, is a letter, either C or D, for Conflict or Dynasty.

8 minutes ago, Builder2 said:

As of this article it seems confirmed that there is no visible difference, save for the bamboo of influence, between dynasty and conflict characters. Given this, I hope we can assume that FFG will drop their sleeve opacity rule and allow players to use clear sleeves in tournaments if they so choose, as this is the only way of showing which deck a character belongs to to an opponent who may not be familiar with it. Unless of course any and all conflict characters have an influence cost.

The assumption would be that the different decks would have different sleeves. I mean, that just seems super-logical.

EDIT: For myself, I'll be going back to black and green sleeves (Dynasty Black, Fate->Conflict Green)

6 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

@DanwarrExcept for the Fine Katana, you get that single usage and there's no card disadvantage either. I'll settle for a small fate cost to have a reusable, reliable military power.

I wouldn't say a 1 Fate attachment is cheap. The big factor will be how often the character you attach it to gets discarded and if you ended up with an advantage for the fate/influence you spent. Short life decks and long life decks are going to look at the cards very differently.

2 minutes ago, Danwarr said:

A fair number of the top decks from 2015, so core set year, and 2016 ran Milk of the Poppy. I agree, Cloud the Mind is more conditional with shugenja requirement, but it remains to be seen if that is truly a hindrance or not.

FFG has printed similar effects like Nightmares, which is also fairly popular, or these cards from 40k Conquest. It's a fairly popular mechanism for FFG to use and is generally pretty powerful considering some characters have very potent effects.

The Shugenja restriction while be fairly major to any deck that can't reliably keep a Shugenja on the board. 3 Miya Mystics is not going to be enough to make Cloud the Mind a must have for every deck.

2 minutes ago, Builder2 said:

As of this article it seems confirmed that there is no visible difference, save for the bamboo of influence, between dynasty and conflict characters. Given this, I hope we can assume that FFG will drop their sleeve opacity rule and allow players to use clear sleeves in tournaments if they so choose, as this is the only way of showing which deck a character belongs to to an opponent who may not be familiar with it. Unless of course any and all conflict characters have an influence cost.

The C and D marks should do that fine anyways. 3 sleeve colors (Dynasty, Conflict and Province/Stronghold) should allow players to keep cards apart as well.

1 minute ago, Kakita Shiro said:

The assumption would be that the different decks would have different sleeves. I mean, that just seems super-logical.

EDIT: For myself, I'll be going back to black and green sleeves (Dynasty Black, Fate->Conflict Green)

I tend to use two colors based on the particular clan I'm building for. Crane decks were light blue/dark blue; Spider were White/Black; Lion were Gold/Brown etc.