Sounds like the meta is exactly the same as the meta in X-Wing, dominated by the Scum faction. So I guess its just an FFG thing

As a little bit of an outsider to competitive skirmish, but one who pays attention, it seems to me that this is the first time that Mercs have really been competitive. My crude chronology of skirmish is that originally, Imp lists dominated the meta, especially trooper and 4x4 lists. Over time, the rebel lists have gotten stronger and twins-lists and focus-lists had crept up on the Imps. However, with the exception of the Bantha lists, that were specifically a counter to the troopers, the Mercs have always been on the weak side and haven't really been in the meta. With the introduction of JR, the Mercs are finally in the game as an honest faction. Perhaps, they are a little on the powerful side now, but I'm guessing that this is temporary as we see new expansions and Errata. I guess I'm just not surprised that in their effort to make the Mercs relevant, that they may have slightly overshot the mark (if so). I'm guessing by worlds next year, there will be a very different looking top 16.

1 hour ago, Deadfool said:

Sounds like the meta is exactly the same as the meta in X-Wing, dominated by the Scum faction. So I guess its just an FFG thing

I'm not sure this is the case, but sometimes I wonder if that's to drive up sales. Sure, Boba Fett is popular, but outside of that, Rebels and the Empire are probably going to be more attractive to new fans. I'd imagine most new players would rather pick the titular X-Wing or a TIE fighter than a Star Viper, for instance. Scum, while very important in the lore, just isn't as well branded in the franchise (again, with some obvious exceptions).

26 minutes ago, subtrendy said:

I'm not sure this is the case, but sometimes I wonder if that's to drive up sales. Sure, Boba Fett is popular, but outside of that, Rebels and the Empire are probably going to be more attractive to new fans. I'd imagine most new players would rather pick the titular X-Wing or a TIE fighter than a Star Viper, for instance. Scum, while very important in the lore, just isn't as well branded in the franchise (again, with some obvious exceptions).

Not sure about XWing, but for IA the majority of pieces came in the Jabba expansion, which screamed "Buy me!" to every Star Wars fan. If they piecemealed out the real contenders in figure packs, I could see this argument, but other than Jabba himself and the occasional Bossk, mainly you just need that one expansion.

-ryanjamal

I also wonder if we're seeing strong scum lists because the games designers have much more freedom to create the various units - they can experiment a little more in the concept and design stage, which allows them to construct a much more variable faction.

The rebels will always be about the heroes, supported by trooper options that, whilst varied to some degree, will always fill a similar role. I'm not saying Hoth Troopers and Endor Rangers are the same, but they do fill a fairly similar thematic space in the list.

The imperials are slightly more of a horde army, lots of decent but average quality troop types, supported by decent but not top end leaders ( I'm talking thematically here, about agent Blaise, Kayn Somos, etc). They have heavy equipment as well, but again, an at-st and the hover tank fill something of a similar role.

The scum faction is far less tied to the SW lore, which allows for much greater freedom and experimentation. They still have access to the big heroes, plus the heavy equipment in the form of the rancor, and the nexu, and others. For the rank and file they have everything from the cheap hired guns to the HK droids.

And then you look at a unit like the weequays and can imagine the designers had almost a blank piece of paper to work from. They wanted to create an interesting long range unit, and probably tried out several different stat lines before settling on the final version. I just don't think they would have that much flexibility with the rebel or imperial factions - anything new will always be more closely tied to an existing unit in those factions.

Looking ahead to the new boxed set, we could probably all come up with some realistic potential at-dp stat lines, based on our experience of how imperial units tend to operate. But those shape Shifters? We really don't know.

Just to clarify - I'm not saying this is definite! And I'm very happy to hear challenge, But it's a hunch I've had for some time with games designs, and why I think we're seeing such strong scum lists at the moment.

18 minutes ago, ellhaynes said:

And then you look at a unit like the weequays and can imagine the designers had almost a blank piece of paper to work from. They wanted to create an interesting long range unit, and probably tried out several different stat lines before settling on the final version. I just don't think they would have that much flexibility with the rebel or imperial factions - anything new will always be more closely tied to an existing unit in those factions.

I think this actually reinforces your point a bit, but in one of the podcast interviews (I believe it was the second Boardwars.eu one) the designers said that they actually built the weequays "backwards", as it were. They first designed the stats for a trooper-type unit that had a bit more consistency (rerolls, white die mitigation, etc.) and then afterwards went looking for a star wars character to give those stats to.

And you're right, it would be harder to come at it from that direction when you're starting with an iconic star wars character of the type that's more often seen in the rebellion or the empire.

The one exception to that might be the rebel campaign heroes, in that they've got more of a blank slate to give them whatever attributes they want and then design a character from there. Although I suppose they're still limited by the fact that a) they need to be a single unique figure and b) they need some sort of gimmick that will be fun in campaign mode as well.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/10/7/inside-the-palace/

They talk about that a little in this designer diary, too.

Yep, agree that the playable heroes add much more flexibility - maybe that's good reason to see an imperial campaign in the future!

1 hour ago, ManateeX said:

I think this actually reinforces your point a bit, but in one of the podcast interviews (I believe it was the second Boardwars.eu one) the designers said that they actually built the weequays "backwards", as it were. They first designed the stats for a trooper-type unit that had a bit more consistency (rerolls, white die mitigation, etc.) and then afterwards went looking for a star wars character to give those stats to.

And you're right, it would be harder to come at it from that direction when you're starting with an iconic star wars character of the type that's more often seen in the rebellion or the empire.

The one exception to that might be the rebel campaign heroes, in that they've got more of a blank slate to give them whatever attributes they want and then design a character from there. Although I suppose they're still limited by the fact that a) they need to be a single unique figure and b) they need some sort of gimmick that will be fun in campaign mode as well.

Great post.

I think at this point in the game, and with the limited 4 offensive dice available, they work "backwards" 90% of the time. They've covered almost all of the essential unique characters that would require a forward approach, so now, it's really just filling out the factions with troops.

I'm worried that if they keep coming out with new units every six months, either:

1) The factions will all become too similar
2) They'll have to keep adding more and more conditions/tokens/etc that eventually push it from a fun but manageable game to a mathematical exercise requiring a graphing calculator and T-accounts.

I'd prefer they keep the factions strengths/weaknesses like most successful games -
*Starcraft: Terren (Scum) adaptive/changeable units, Protoss (Rebels) fewer/expensive quality units, Zerg (Imperial) hordes of cheap units
*Warcraft: Humans defensive/support, Orcs offensive, Undead regenerative, Night Elves low health/high range
*Dune: Atreides average, Ordos fast/weak, Harkonnen strong/slow

I'm more scared of Option 1 than Option 2.