What are your thoughts concerning the Clan-specific Philosophy cards, in general and specific?

Given the few (1 clearly, the rest are obscured) that we can see and read https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/4/19/legend-of-the-five-rings-the-card-game/ under the Great Clans of Rokugan sub-heading, will these cards have the potential to tip the balance during games?

Will players be allowed to have up to 3 copies in their decks?

Will these cards be an auto-include for most players?

Are they for long-game builds, or short?

Etc.

They do look Clan specific, as they don't have any Influence scrolls on the bottom of each card, which would mean that they are possibly an ace in the hole, if and when they are timely utilized.

Thoughts?

I can Swim is tagged as a philosophy and has influence I believe.

Which annoys me so much.

Ya'll can't swim, only I can swim. Ask Frog.

Most the philosophy cards (if not all) we have seen so far completely show that they have influence on them. And I think that is fine, since intermarriage between clans happens so of course certain philosophies can be found outside the foundng clans. And well, how strong those cards are will probably be seen when the game comes out.

The Way Ofs didn't as far as I remember

Edit: Yes they do I am dumb nevermind

They seem interesting, I can see them being cores of a strategy or at least a good hint. Most of all I see philosophy as being the big flavor factor for the clans.

1 hour ago, Cold Iron1 said:

They seem interesting, I can see them being cores of a strategy or at least a good hint. Most of all I see philosophy as being the big flavor factor for the clans.

Pfui. Way of the Scorpion has a ninja on it. Clearly only way to play

Given the way the game looks to be evolving, I would say that any card has the potential to tip the balance in a game. I can see no reason why you won't be allowed to have 3 of them in a deck - even Unique personalities can be in the deck 3 times!

The Way of ... cards do look to be playing on something intrinsic to specific clans, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're Must Include. In the RPG, Way of the Crab is the Hida Bushi Rank 1 technique - absolutely necessary for 'normal' bushi of the clan, but something that a Kuni shugenja will never touch. Likewise I think that Philosophy cards will play to the strengths of 'typical' clan decks, but be out of place for people wanting to try something a bit different.

3 hours ago, BayushiCroy said:

Pfui. Way of the Scorpion has a ninja on it. Clearly only way to play

That art is solid, though. Of course the lying clan's philosophy would be represented in-universe by artwork of a thing that isn't real.

People wearing black pajamas as a functional and stylish wardrobe choice for nocturnal recreation is real, which is clearly what way of the scorpion depicts. Comfortable and practical!

6 hours ago, BayushiCroy said:

I can Swim is tagged as a philosophy and has influence I believe.

Which annoys me so much.

Ya'll can't swim, only I can swim. Ask Frog.

I would, but I can't seem to find him.

EDIT: Ignore. Question was reasked by someone who is better at knowing how to embed images.

5 hours ago, BayushiCroy said:

The Way Ofs didn't as far as I remember

Edit: Yes they do I am dumb nevermind

Unless I am blind, Way of the Unicorn doesn't.

8 hours ago, Drudenfusz said:

Most the philosophy cards (if not all) we have seen so far completely show that they have influence on them. And I think that is fine, since intermarriage between clans happens so of course certain philosophies can be found outside the foundng clans. And well, how strong those cards are will probably be seen when the game comes out.

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see the 'Scroll Icons' at the bottom right of the Philosophy cards, which I believe would indicate Influence. Unless, when the game is released, the rules state that Philosophy Cards are interchangeable with other Clans.

Looking at the Way of the Unicorn card posted above by Yogo Gohei, there doesn't seem to be an Influence Icon(s) at the bottom right in the margin of the card, which further leads me to believe that Philosophy cards can only be used by their parent Clans.

Just an observation.

I think that Way of The Clans don't get the bamboos, while other Philosophy cards - like I Can Swim - might get it.

13 minutes ago, WHW said:

I think that Way of The Clans don't get the bamboos, while other Philosophy cards - like I Can Swim - might get it.

Oh I see.

That would add more depth to the game. Excellent!

I wonder if the Bushido Virtues will receive their own Philosophy cards (e.g. "Courage," "Honor") this time around. I hope so.

Of the seven Potential "Way of X" cards, we have the full text for two of them, Lion and Unicorn, and a significant amount of the text for Way of the Crab. For reference, I believe Way of the Crab might have the following text:

Quote

Sacrifice a Crab character, choose an opponent, that play must sacrifice a character

Of these three, Way of the Lion and Way of the Crab seem like instant auto-include 3-ofs. Doubling base military skill, especially when we've seen cheap high Mil power characters like Matsu Beserker, is pretty fantastic and can probably be used to break a province with a single character not to mention trigger cards like Fallen in Battle.

Way of the Crab as removal seems quite strong as well, though you probably have to engineer a situation into which your opponent losing a character hurts much more than your sacrifice. This shouldn't be too difficult especially given that you can just sacrifice a character with no Fate that would be leaving end of turn anyway.

Way of the Unicorn is the only one that strikes me as distinctly "meh" given that play passes back and forth during a turn. However, being able to dictate the first Conflict of each turn as well as having the first buy, and potentially the first opportunity to pass to gain that bonus Fate, could end up being quite strong. Combined with cards like Breakthrough, Way of the Unicorn could just be used to win before your opponent can ever do anything which seems to work with the aggressive Unicorn cards we've seen so far.

I like that I Can Swim has influence because it means that it can be splashed out of Scorpion which simply makes the game more interesting. I could see aggro Unicorn decks splash it to help with early removal or low Honor Crab decks use to keep the game at their pace.

I'm excited to see more of the Philosophy cards and how they can be utilized.

I guess that Way of the Crane reads:

Action: Choose a Crane character you control - Honor that character.

4 minutes ago, Eugene Earnshaw said:

I guess that Way of the Crane reads:

Action: Choose a Crane character you control - Honor that character.

That would be good, but I do hope it's more interesting than that.

5 minutes ago, Eugene Earnshaw said:

I guess that Way of the Crane reads:

Action: Choose a Crane character you control - Honor that character.

Part of me feels like the text on the card is too short for that, but I agree that makes sense.

I think Way of the Unicorn will be really really good. Potentially going first all game long could build a pretty nice advantage for almost free.

4 minutes ago, MrMenthe said:

I think Way of the Unicorn will be really really good. Potentially going first all game long could build a pretty nice advantage for almost free.

Not free. Costs a card each time.

3 minutes ago, Kakita Shiro said:

Not free. Costs a card each time.

Exactly. Costs a card and a deck slot.

Also, because a Card effectively equals 1 Honor, would you pay 1 Honor to simply keep being the First Player? I think it depends, but the power level of Way of the Unicorn compared to Way of the Lion and Way of the Crab seems much lower to me at least.

7 minutes ago, Danwarr said:

Exactly. Costs a card and a deck slot.

Also, because a Card effectively equals 1 Honor, would you pay 1 Honor to simply keep being the First Player? I think it depends, but the power level of Way of the Unicorn compared to Way of the Lion and Way of the Crab seems much lower to me at least.

I've been thinking about this. A card being 1 honor is true but misleading. Because 1 honor is more valuable the closer to 0 or 25 you are. I mean, you're still right, but the value is fluid.

Also going first allows you to dictate the rings. You could, in a way, argue that Way of the Unicorn is actually worth >=1 fate. Since it guarantees you have the option to claim the ring that wasn't used last turn.

6 minutes ago, Danwarr said:

Exactly. Costs a card and a deck slot.

Also, because a Card effectively equals 1 Honor, would you pay 1 Honor to simply keep being the First Player? I think it depends, but the power level of Way of the Unicorn compared to Way of the Lion and Way of the Crab seems much lower to me at least.

I think one doesn't has to have it the entire game, but towards the end it could be of interest to be capable to break the opponents stronghold before they break yours...