First I must say, that I'm a long time follower of Warhammer RPG (2 previous editions).
I also like the mechanical changes FFG made to this system, and became a follower of 3-rd ed.

But latest actions cast a shadow on this project.

I mean Hurlanc's SE plugin.
This guy spend lots of his free time, effort, and hard work (demanding nothing in return) to give us what in my opinion 3-rd ed lacks a lot right now, ability to fill the gaps, allow more players to the game, and replace lost/broken cards.

In this light I feel confused why FFG, or GW, or maybe both companies decided to close that project.
You know, games like RPG's practically live by their fans, and fan made material.

I understand You had your reasons, but it would be nice, to get some feedback, as to why this kind of approach?
It would also be nice, to know if we get something in return?

Right now we are left with a system, that have some very nice mechanics, and ideas, but lacks a lot in other areas.
This wouldn't be the problem, but it seems, at this point there is no way for me, to replenish lost/broken cards, give the same card to more than 1 player, or produce new ones (maybe if someone is a graphics guru - I'm not).

We are left with basic set of cards, that are in most cases of 1 copy each.
This is sufficient for a few first sessions when your group is small, but in a longer timespan, especially in larger groups?
How are we supposed to play, and have fun?
Are we supposed to play in this setup (1 copy of each card) forever? (and if thats the case, then I'm going back to 2-nd ed this instant, because this is seriously impeding my gameplay)

If its about the money, then fine, I can pay.
Hire a few skilled guys, let them make the tool, and sell it.
I will gladly pay for it, if it allow me and my players to expand the system and play freely without the need to share cards all the time (imagine a situation where, 3 players want the same action card, and the same talents, and you have only a 1 copy of each, and I as a GM want to use some of those card as a monster ability sometimes too).

Or give us a card packs, so we could at least replenish our decks, and add new players (and I'm not talking about basic cards).

Just give us something, we are your fans, not enemies.

We already invested in this game, and we want for it to live and prosper.

And as the end note, it would be also nice to know, what kind of the already made fan materials (including those made with SE) can we freely distribute over the interwebs without the legal problems.

I fully agree with Sunatet.

I agree too.

me four

............

Yeah, I would think FFG would be above taking away the stuff fans have created like this. I wish I could get an actual reason as to why they took it away. It was starting to look good too. All of the people on this forum where creating such interesting and creative house rules too. I know some other gaming companies don't even let fans put up fan sites or create house rules for their games on the internet. It would be a shame if FFG did that.. Furthermore if FFG takes away all of the fan created content then there will be no sense of community for this game. I mean sure we can talk about the game but if we can't change anything about the game then RPGs wouldn't be nearly as fun. That is what makes RPGs special IMO and that is what sets them apart from other types of entertainment.

Perhaps I am misjudging FFG. After all maybe it was GW that told them to do it but until I know who's idea this was I will assume it was up to FFG.

me too.

Please answer! Thanks!

I Agree, cards set for the fans, please give us a feeedback FFG.

Is there a discussion about this somewhere? How did the information come down to the community?

Llanwyre said:

House Rules forum.

FFG has no problem with the SA software for their Arkham Horror board game. So it is GW.

FFG is also now allowed by GW to give away competition prizes to fansites like Hammerzeit or Dark Reign (40K).

Basically, GW is the bastard stepchild of Apple. Either you buy everything from them, or you don't have a right or access to it.

So, (once again) blame GW.

A very interesting point of view.

I myself suggested a phone app but that was stopped before it could get started i know why because this would make pirating the game easier i guess the same goes for the card builder project.

I am actually very disapointed by there stance as well because i strongly believe that its because of people like me who dm that this game reaches a wider audience. Whats wrong with people building card sets my god you could oversee the project who knows some really good stuff could come out of this.

I am very upset by the big brother approach ffg has taken here don't ruin all the hard work now. Work with us your community or lose us forever.

Every leader knows if you lose your peoples support its over come on ffg lead by example make some things open gaming and see who quickly the community grows.

Regards

Yes, WFRP3 really needs a program like Strange Eons. Such a tool for the WFRP3 community is not a luxury but a must-have.

By stopping the development of the WFRP3 plugin for Strange Eons FFG has basically stopped homebrewing and community support. GW will not lose a moment sleep over this. But for FFG it could mean the death of the game. If this gets known by the greater WFRP3 community (not just this forum) I think there will be a major backlash. Roleplayers don't want to feel restricted by a company what they can and can not done with their game. The 3rd edition is restrictive enough with all the tokens, dice and cards. Stamping down on fan material makes things much, much worse.

Not a good move from FFG, driven by Games Workshop based on past performance.

I agree fully with Sunatet.

We really need an official statement from FFG (and possibly GW) on what we're allowed to use and distribute. Are we even allowed to distribute home-made scenarios for WFRP or discuss rules/house rules any longer? Without being able to use the dice/stance symbols scenarios will look a lot worse.

If it's a copyright problem with the artwork used on some of the player-made cards I can see why GW/FFG wanted these to be pulled (or well, I don't think it's sound, but I can understand it). But as far as I know Hurlanc's SE plug-in did not contain any GW material at all, only stuff from the FFG cards that has already been released to the public (e.g. the Thug career card). If he problem is the actual FFG graphics I don't see why the plug-in had to be withdrawn, couldn't it just have been redone to use public artwork for backgrounds, borders, and so on? Or did they ask him to withdraw the plug-in because it can be used to reproduce copyrighted material? Then they should just go ahead and ask Adobe to quit producing Photoshop since it can be used to do the same...

I just don't understand this. As it seems to be for many others, the main problem I have with the game is that it is considerably less customizable than almost all other RPGs. This is due to the heavy use of cards for many things. The SE plugin made it possible to get around this artificial limitation and to produce cards that fitted with the theme and other cards. Without this, the game has lost a lot of appeal for me, I'm sorry to say. I will probably still play it for a while, but really, this was a bad call.

Please FFG people, i'm fond of your game, and I would like you to answer that mostly important question. This straight indirect message to Hurlanc is quite a messy thing for your public relation as we all fans are in doubt.

Disappointing, and yet entirely predictable. FFG may let stuff like this go but was anybody really expecting any different from GW?

Thanks to those that made the plug in.

This post has also had it's cards pulled and goes into a bit more detail about what issue FFG/GW has with them....

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=166&efcid=3&efidt=272957&efpag=1

Basically, you can't create cards for "distribution" that looks anything like an official WFRP card. Hurlanc's SE plug in falls into that same bracket and that must be why it's been denied.

I wonder if creating a card without any "artwork" on it is allowable, so that it is obviously homebrew, or whether using any of the special symbols at all would cause issue with FFG/GW?

Very disappointing...

Unless FF is planning on putting out their own version (and soon) this game is much, much less interesting. I mean, dang, I hack every game I own to make it into the experience I like best at my table. FF. Do you think this game is, or will be perfect? Do thing there's nothing to add? You're delusional if so.

I think this is an interesting game but it will die on the vine with-out fan made materials...

pumpkin said:

That would be useless. I want to make my cards and shuffle them into the deck. Things like enhanced criticals, insanities, etc would be useless if everyone knew which one's they were.

Dark Reign said:

This point of view seems to be really right ; FFG never say anything in the arkam dedicated forum.

Like I said earlier, it's basically because they are a business and don't really give a stuff for you or I. They only want our money - so if a kind hearted hard working soul comes along and gives us something for nothing, in order to help us play, then they'll stop that.

Why? Because they aren't going to make money otherwise. Similar to WotC pulling all the old classic D&D pdfs out of sales.

So here's an official declaration for FFG.

Up yours! You won't have a penny of my cash you money grabbing soul sucking parasitical capitalistc theiving filthy lucre grabbing persons. At least **** Turpin had the decency to wear a black mask when he robbed us blind.

Games Worskshop

FFG

WotC

Hang your heads in shame!

PS: Ok maybe I was a bit rough...after all we did only pay ALMOST £70 FOR AN INCOMPLETE GAME!

Have a nice day

I think it's important to remember the legal implications of these things - White Wolf once had to do something similar simply because if they didn't actively protect their copywrited material their claims to it could be declared forfeit.

42! said:

By as others have pointed out, previously there have been no issues with the Arkham Horror Strange Eons project.... surely the same legal implications, if they existed would be the same?

it is also a shame that the main loose will only be for FFG: this kind of work is an excellent free promotionnal ad, showing qualities from the game and from the designing firm policies behind it. Forbidding it only comes to give a bad view over the game and would be useless to control the home made material. This plug in will continue to be given by an illegal way; it will be given via others RPG forum, or other underground web sites, and some guys will still used it to create cards. But now, only thoses with good skills in net-dugging will have it and this will not encourage new people to invest time (and by consequence, money) inside WFRP.

WFRP fans:

Fan content and support guidelines and information will be available on our website shortly, so fans can continue to create homebrewed content and support their favorite games in a way that conforms with FFG's licenses and practices. With the complexities of different license arrangements and the legal impact of these decisions on trademarks and copyrights, we appreciate your patience as we finalize a plan that works for all parties involved.

- Jeremy @ FFG