35 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Wow.........this makes me feel even worse, thanks a lot @Thormind .

...is it 5:00 yet?

Hehe, there, i edited and added a smile just for you... Here is another one

Just now, VanorDM said:

Again that's not really true... Unless you assume sooner or later everything will be nerfed, because there isn't much that hasn't been called to be nerfed. When I started playing the weekly nerf call was for Tie Swarms, but as far I know, nothing has been done to nerf Howlrunner or generic tie fighters.

You're not really being fair. I'm saying the things the community spits fire at consistently and with evidence in support of - I'm not saying every single thing that every single player has ever said needs nerfed get nerfed.

As I've been told recently, "Don't be obtuse"

If you pay attention and look beyond the forum, there are "notables" that spearhead these complaints via their direct access to FFG. I can guess what some of the next nerfs will be based on comments from those individuals, and they are the same complaints we see here and on Facebook/Reddit en mass.

4 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

You're not really being fair.

Yes I am. I pointed out a example of when something that was called upon to be nerfed quite often hasn't been. Of course we don't see many calls for nerfing TF's any longer, because the meta shifted.

But that's just one example, there's others, like Dash, Fettigator, Turrets in general, ect.. So just because a lot people call for something to be nerfed and that call keeps happening over and over again, doesn't mean it will in fact get nerfed.

Quote

I'm saying the things the community spits fire at consistently and with evidence in support of

Back in wave 1 Tie Fighters were much more dominate than anything in the current meta was.

4 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

Yes I am. I pointed out a example of when something that was called upon to be nerfed quite often hasn't been. Of course we don't see many calls for nerfing TF's any longer, because the meta shifted.

But that's just one example, there's others, like Dash, Fettigator, Turrets in general, ect..

Back in wave 1 Tie Fighters were much more dominate than anything in the current meta was.

Edited: If you think turrets weren't soft-nerfed addressed then this discussion ain't worth having. Ever hear of Autothrusters? (I think I like that term better...)

Wave 1 is not worth discussing, honestly. Mostly because there was no competitive environment, which is the catalyst of this thread...

13 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Ever hear of Autothrusters?

Have they stopped the calls for turrets being nerfed? No they haven't, and again that's just one of many examples.

Quote

Wave 1 is not worth discussing, honestly. Mostly because there was no competitive environment, which is the catalyst of this thread...

The first worlds was in Nov 2012, a full 3 months before Wave 2 even came out. Unless you're going to try and declare that the first World's wasn't really a competitive event. Even then it wasn't until around wave 3 or 4 that the Tie swarm was no longer the top meta list. For that whole time, there was weekly if not more often calls for nerfs to the Tie Swarm... Even during the summer of double falcons, there were still calls to nerf the swarm.

7 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

Have they stopped the calls for turrets being nerfed? No they haven't, and again that's just one of many examples.

The first worlds was in Nov 2012, a full 3 months before Wave 2 even came out. Unless you're going to try and declare that the first World's wasn't really a competitive event. Even then it wasn't until around wave 3 or 4 that the Tie swarm was no longer the top meta list.

How do you split quotes up?

So back to my original point: When the community complains, things get nerfed. What are we going back and forth about?
I will add that this effect has increased exponentially in the last few waves, each FAQ shifting the meta more and more it seems - though, I'm sure you'll refute that, too.

I'll cede on the World's v1.0 discussions but only because I don't want to fight with nostalgia. I would be curious the number of players at that first World's competition, for perspective's sake.

We are arguing for argument's sake. My original post was a PSA/cautionary warning, not an invitation to be told that turrets have not had their own nerf, which they have and, by the way - Tie Swarms have been obliterated (so you can stop trying to push that line...).

I do like looking over a range of years to look for patterns....here's the top of the pile over the post Wave 2 World Championships:

2013 - Paul Heaver (2 T-65s, 2x B-Wings), Dallas Parker (7 TIE Fighters), Jonathan Gomes (4 T-65s), David Bergstrom (7 TIE Fighters)

2014 - Paul Heaver (YT-1300, 3 Z-95s), Morgan Reid (TIE Phantom, 4 TIE Fighters), Keith Wilson (6 TIE Fighters), Ira Mayers (YT-1300, 2 Z-95s)

2015 - Paul Heaver (T-70, 2 Y-Wings, Z-95), Nathan Eide (E-Wing, T-70, A-Wing), Phillip Booth (IG-88A, IG-88B), Jeremy Howard (Lambda, TIE Advanced, TIE Interceptor)

2016 - Nand Torfs (2 JumpMaster 5000s), Kevin Leintz (E-Wing, K-Wing), Duncan Howard (Lambda, TIE Defender, TIE FO), Thomas "Jack" Mooney (YT-1300, A-Wing)

2017 - Justin Phua – (2 JumpMaster 5000s), Nand Torfs (K-Wing, T-70, T-65), Nick Belle (Lancer, Protectorate, HWK-290), Gerry Russell (T-65, Rebel TIE, ARC-170, T-70)

2013 2014 2015 2016 2017

Rebel Rebel Rebel Scum Scum

Imperial Imperial Rebel Rebel Rebel

Rebel Imperial Scum Imperial Scum

Imperial Rebel Imperial Rebel Rebel

If one were to be overly simplistic and a bit tong-n-cheek, one could say, power-curve-wise, the Scum and Rebels are balanced; the Imperials simply don't show up.

5 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

How do you split quotes up?

If you put the cursor where you want to break the quote up, hit enter twice and it seems to split it up.

5 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

though, I'm sure you'll refute that, too.

No I'll agree that there's been more and more nerfs, but that's because there's clearly more and more stuff in the game which can lead to more broken combos.

But my point is that just because enough people complain about something doesn't mean it will get nerfed. It may, it may not, but I don't believe that FFG actually nerfs based on what people post here, I don't think they bother reading what is posted here much any longer. They look at tournament data and other sources and make adjustments based on that.

11 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Edited: If you think turrets weren't soft-nerfed addressed then this discussion ain't worth having. Ever hear of Autothrusters? (I think I like that term better...)

Wave 1 is not worth discussing, honestly. Mostly because there was no competitive environment, which is the catalyst of this thread...

You've got a point there. Adressing an issue doesnt have to be done by an errata. Problem is at the moment there is not a single thing that make scums so dominant. Its a combination of many factors: best ace in the game that can also joust (Fenn), 2 best large ships of the game in Jumpmaster and Shadowcaster, Attani Mindlink and a bunch of unique upgrades that are effective and low cost. Not far behind you have the rebels with Miranda, Biggs, the Ghost and Sabine.

If they decide to fix that through future releases it will snowball to powercreeps after powercreeps. There is no real way around that. To compete with something unbalanced you need something just as powerful.

The other problem that arise when using new upgrades/ships to balance the game is that old stuff are left behind unless they have access to the fix. Swarms are gone, 2 red dices ship are gone (unless they have many upgrades available), aces with no authruster were gone a wile ago and now fragile aces are almost non existant. The meta is left with a very narrow gameplay choice and i think most people don't like that.

17 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

How do you split quotes up?

You quote someone and erase the part you want to answer separately. After your text you quote the same person again (or another one) and erase the text to keep what you need, etc. As long as you dont click "submit reply" every time you click the "quote" at the end of a post, it's going to be added inside your reply

14 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

2013 2014 2015 2016 2017

Rebel Rebel Rebel Scum Scum

Imperial Imperial Rebel Rebel Rebel

Rebel Imperial Scum Imperial Scum

Imperial Rebel Imperial Rebel Rebel

Interesting, over the past 5 years no Imperial player won the World Champ. For the past 3 years they had at the most 1 player in the top 4. For 2015 and 2016 the rebels had 2 players in the top 4 each time yet they were supposed to be weak... go figure...