Why not keep on playing, try new ideas and learn something new from game losses?

Even when you win try to reflect on what you could have done better.

Would be nice. Sadly, FFG opened Pandora's Box by releasing hard errata, and ever since then this forum is little more than calls for more of them. Which is precisely what I was worried about.

Would also be nice if people would appreciate how unusual both lists in the Worlds final were, and how skilled both players were, rather than immediately cry out for the winning list to be 'nerfed' and make broad, sweeping statements about the state of the game based on the Top 16. But there we are.

26 minutes ago, Shadow345 said:

Why not keep on playing, try new ideas and learn something new from game losses?

Even when you win try to reflect on what you could have done better.

You must be new - welcome to the forum!

People will always complain about the meta simply because its easier to deem a game broken than to accept a loss because they messed up in the game.

33 minutes ago, Shadow345 said:

Why not keep on playing, try new ideas and learn something new from game losses?

Even when you win try to reflect on what you could have done better.

So, by "new ideas", are you implying there's more to enjoy than 100/6 death matches with flavor of the wave netlists?

1 hour ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

You must be new - welcome to the forum!

Heh. This is his first post-and-punt I can actually get behind!!

4 hours ago, Shadow345 said:

Why not keep on playing, try new ideas and learn something new from game losses?

Even when you win try to reflect on what you could have done better.

I like the sentiment but, on the surface, FFG appears to have rewarded the complainers on the forums with the great nerfing. FFG may have nerfed certain cards based on hard data rather than anecdotal complaints. It seems though complaining is an effect way of getting FFG to change the game. This will encourage more complaining as previous complainers may feel embolden and vindicated in their original complaints.

The way to stop complaining on the forums is for members not to comment on nerf threads. Again nice sentiments but we all like a good whinge and debate!

4 hours ago, tsondaboy said:

People will always complain about the meta simply because its easier to deem a game broken than to accept a loss because they messed up in the game.

Why is it everyone assumes "nerf" threads are brought on by an inability to handle losses?

Everything I'd like to see nerfed/buffed is because I can see how it screws the game's balance.

In fact the only thing that tables me every time I play it I wouldn't change for the world. It's a great list and I'm going to keep throwing things at it until I win.

31 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

Why is it everyone assumes "nerf" threads are brought on by an inability to handle losses?

Its a combination of inability to handle loss and lack of imagination to be precise.
In any game, there is a small number of imaginative people that come up with a list that defines the "meta", and a vast majority of people that just copies the meta.
Its usually the second category of people that cries NERF all the time, but no matter how you much you nerf the game to "even" things out, it wont change the fact that lobotomized people occasionally have more imagination.

5 hours ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

You must be new - welcome to the forum!

lol, I remember the classic Planetside ( classic one not PS 2 ) forums with three factions and each calling for nerfs and buffs, (p.s. Smurfs are Easy Mode , Vanu Sovereignty Technology Equals Might! ). It used to be called Forumside .

So what do we call the Star Wars Forum Wars? I got it.

Welcome to Forum-wing everybody

P.S. The F-wing is OP it needs a NERF!

6 hours ago, MalusCalibur said:

Would be nice. Sadly, FFG opened Pandora's Box by releasing hard errata, and ever since then this forum is little more than calls for more of them. Which is precisely what I was worried about.

Would also be nice if people would appreciate how unusual both lists in the Worlds final were, and how skilled both players were, rather than immediately cry out for the winning list to be 'nerfed' and made broad, sweeping statements about the state of the game based on the Top 16. But there we are.

I don't really want nerfs on stuff, I just want them to revert the FAQ. It was a terrible idea, did nothing good for the balance of the game, and you're right- it sets a dangerous precedent for future errata nerfs. I just want them to delete it and go back to normal.

46 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

I don't really want nerfs on stuff, I just want them to revert the FAQ. It was a terrible idea, did nothing good for the balance of the game, and you're right- it sets a dangerous precedent for future errata nerfs. I just want them to delete it and go back to normal.

Zuckuss had to go, at the very least. I also like the Defender nerfs, even if Imps may need some time to find a new direction. I feel that what they did to Palp and Manaroo was too heavy-handed, but Zuckuss absolutely had to go.

1 hour ago, tsondaboy said:

Its a combination of inability to handle loss and lack of imagination to be precise.
In any game, there is a small number of imaginative people that come up with a list that defines the "meta", and a vast majority of people that just copies the meta.
Its usually the second category of people that cries NERF all the time, but no matter how you much you nerf the game to "even" things out, it wont change the fact that lobotomized people occasionally have more imagination.

Actually it's neither of those things.

Unfortunately no matter how much you point that out it won't change the fact that lobotomised people occasionally have better reading comprehension.

FFG plz nerf the nerf threads!

2 hours ago, Marinealver said:

lol, I remember the classic..

..with all those emojis and oversized fonts I can't help but wonder if you're a JBR7 alt account or if his influence is... spreading.

2 hours ago, tsondaboy said:

Its a combination of inability to handle loss and lack of imagination to be precise.
In any game, there is a small number of imaginative people that come up with a list that defines the "meta", and a vast majority of people that just copies the meta.
Its usually the second category of people that cries NERF all the time, but no matter how you much you nerf the game to "even" things out, it wont change the fact that lobotomized people occasionally have more imagination.

*chuckles*

An alternative view is that many of the people wishing for a change are those that are gifted enough to analyze the pieces at hand and to actually look at game data and come to a non-knee-jerk reaction of "evertyhing is perfect as it is, git god!". Wishing for balance is wishing for diversity.

17 hours ago, MalusCalibur said:

Would also be nice if people would appreciate how unusual both lists in the Worlds final were, and how skilled both players were.

Unusual?? Both list were a small twist on classic builds. At the end of the day it was still 2x Jumpmasters and Miranda+Biggs. Just proves that Jumpmasters, Miranda and Biggs are overpowered no matter how you play them.

17 hours ago, MalusCalibur said:

Would be nice. Sadly, FFG opened Pandora's Box by releasing hard errata, and ever since then this forum is little more than calls for more of them. Which is precisely what I was worried about.

Many people (myself included) just want Imperials to work again. Doesnt matter how. Doesnt need to be by adding more nerf.

17 hours ago, MalusCalibur said:

...rather than immediately cry out for the winning list to be 'nerfed' and made broad, sweeping statements about the state of the game based on the Top 16. But there we are.

Saying we base our opinions on only one Top 16 is actually a broad, sweeping statement. It's based on cumulative results since the FAQ came out.

Fist of all about the World results: We're still missing 2 lists on the juggler site but from what we have only 2 imperial list made day 2, only 1 made top 16 and none went further. Theres a problem just there.

Second, the meta was healthy and much more diversified before the FAQ. This alone should be enough of a reason to think the corrections were probably not needed or at most done incorrectly. They did not solve the problem, it was amplified.

Now look at the data evolution since the FAQ. People were saying the Imperials would be fine, they just needed to adapt. Others knew right from the start there was no viable alternative. What do we have now:

The best Imperial ship is in 10th position. Defenders went from the 4th to the 11th position. Meanwhile the dominating ships remained the same: Jumpmasters, Protectorates and Shadowcasters.

Palp went from the 5th to the 48th position. Once again the dominating upgrade did not change: Attani Mindlink

The best Imperial archetype was in 3rd position, now it's on the 9th. The best Scum builds were 1st and second, now they are first, second and third.

The data for pre FAQ were taken from Wave 10 and for post from the nerf to today. If we look at the data for only the past month, it's even worst:

- The top 4 best archetypes are scums. 1st Imperial built is 11th.

- We still have the same dominating ships but the best imperial droped to 12th position

- The 2 first upgrades are scums only and the best one is still Attani. Palp is at around the same position, 47th.

Those are the facts we have on the nerf effect. I dont know what would enough to see there is a problem if all of that doesnt do it.

:-)

15 hours ago, Shadow345 said:

Why not keep on playing, try new ideas and learn something new from game losses?

Even when you win try to reflect on what you could have done better.

Coming from you, the reigning monarch of random posts dealing with what you want to see "fixed" or "removed" from the game, this post is rich with irony.

8 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

..with all those emojis and oversized fonts I can't help but wonder if you're a JBR7 alt account or if his influence is... spreading.

Nope, I don't put in pixel ships, and the oversized fonts are to compensate for the lack of different fonts forum theme and a lot of the other stuff I used to be able to do with this forum.

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

Unusual?? Both list were a small twist on classic builds. At the end of the day it was still 2x Jumpmasters and Miranda+Biggs. Just proves that Jumpmasters, Miranda and Biggs are overpowered no matter how you play them.

Many people (myself included) just want Imperials to work again. Doesnt matter how. Doesnt need to be by adding more nerf.

Saying we base our opinions on only one Top 16 is actually a broad, sweeping statement. It's based on cumulative results since the FAQ came out.

Fist of all about the World results: We're still missing 2 lists on the juggler site but from what we have only 2 imperial list made day 2, only 1 made top 16 and none went further. Theres a problem just there.

Second, the meta was healthy and much more diversified before the FAQ. This alone should be anough of a reason to think the corrections were probably not needed or at most done incorrectly. They did not solve the problem, it was amplified.

Now look at the data evolution since the FAQ. People were saying the Imperials would be fine, they just needed to adapt. Others knew right from the start there was no viable alternative. What do we have now:

The best Imperial ship is in 10th position. Defenders went from the 4th to the 11th position. Meanwhile the dominating ships remained the same: Jumpmasters, Protectorates and Shadowcasters.

Palp went from the 5th to the 48th position. Once again the dominating upgrade did not change: Attani Mindlink

The best Imperial archetype was in 3rd position, now it's on the 9th. The best Scum builds were 1st and second, now they are first, second and third.

The data for pre FAQ were taken from Wave 10 and for post from the nerf to today. If we look at the data for only the past month, it's even worst:

- The top 4 best archetypes are scums. 1st Imperial built is 11th.

- We still have the same dominating ships but the best imperial droped to 12th position

- The 2 first upgrades are scums only and the best one is still Attani. Palp is at around the same position, 47th.

Those are the facts we have on the nerf effect. I dont know what would enough to see there is a problem if all of that doesnt do it.

Wow.........this makes me feel even worse, thanks a lot @Thormind .

...is it 5:00 yet?

11 hours ago, tsondaboy said:

Its a combination of inability to handle loss and lack of imagination to be precise.
In any game, there is a small number of imaginative people that come up with a list that defines the "meta", and a vast majority of people that just copies the meta.
Its usually the second category of people that cries NERF all the time, but no matter how you much you nerf the game to "even" things out, it wont change the fact that lobotomized people occasionally have more imagination.

While I agree with almost everything you said, I still don't think all people who complain are not good or imaginative. I ended up quitting the tournament scene purely based on being bored with playing the same lists over and over and over again. It's not that I couldn't win, but it's because I got bored with the repetition. Someone trying to remove the top broken things would then be rewarded with a widened meta....until the next broken thing is found.

People can win, but still not be happy with the meta. I know I was absolutely sick of Turret Wing back in the day.

17 hours ago, MalusCalibur said:

Would be nice. Sadly, FFG opened Pandora's Box by releasing hard errata, and ever since then this forum is little more than calls for more of them.

That's not really true. There's been a nearly constant call to nerf X for about as long as I've been here. The fact that FFG started to rebalance the game hasn't really lead to calls for nerfs, or even really increased the number of posts for them.

Anyone else notice that FFG nerfs everything that we complain about, eventually ?

Not trying to encourage it, but people should know that they definitely listen. Maybe a bit too much...

1 minute ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Anyone else notice that FFG nerfs everything that we complain about, eventually ?

Again that's not really true... Unless you assume sooner or later everything will be nerfed, because there isn't much that hasn't been called to be nerfed. When I started playing the weekly nerf call was for Tie Swarms, but as far I know, nothing has been done to nerf Howlrunner or generic tie fighters.