52 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

Not in a world where you can avoid the bomb, and then your opponent can deliberately tigger it and dump auto-damage onto you.

Sabine is in dire need of a rewording to make sure the the ship that triggers the bomb takes the damage.

Dire need? These nerf threads are starting to on my nerves already. I mean, I can see if something is creating a NPE, then it may require a nerf yeah, but Sabine is nowhere close to that as she is ONCE PER ROUND.

I repeat, Sabine is ONCE PER ROUND.

And if you are deliberately triggering a mine just to do that one damage to someone you are likely going to be causing damage to yourself. And if you don't judge it very well, you could end up taking the worst of it.

Anyone who can't handle that one extra damage in a round and really thinks it needs a nerf probably should stop playing X-Wing and go play Pokemon or something.

Just now, Darth Landy said:

Dire need? These nerf threads are starting to on my nerves already. I mean, I can see if something is creating a NPE, then it may require a nerf yeah, but Sabine is nowhere close to that as she is ONCE PER ROUND.

I repeat, Sabine is ONCE PER ROUND.

Anyone who can't handle that one extra damage in a round and really thinks it needs a nerf probably should stop playing X-Wing and go play Pokemon or something.

People got all hot and bothered by Palp and x7 and they were also once per round and added one extra result. Why does Sabine get a free pass in this case?

3 minutes ago, Darth Landy said:

These nerf threads are starting to on my nerves already.

Then don't read them. Go play Pokemon or something.

2 minutes ago, Darth Landy said:

Dire need? These nerf threads are starting to on my nerves already. I mean, I can see if something is creating a NPE, then it may require a nerf yeah, but Sabine is nowhere close to that as she is ONCE PER ROUND.

I repeat, Sabine is ONCE PER ROUND.

Anyone who can't handle that one extra damage in a round and really thinks it needs a nerf probably should stop playing X-Wing and go play Pokemon or something.

Welcome to the forums, you are not official a veteran.
Which is kind of amazing as you seem to be new to X-Wing. A 3 HP ship which relies on taking 0.2 damage at best per round has actually quite the problem with getting one extra damage per round. So yeah, playing Pokemon instead of playing Imperial Aces might be indeed in order. ;-)

Not that I am recommending a Sabine nerf.

Just now, Stevey86 said:

Then don't read them. Go play Pokemon or something.

I come here to read and discuss strategies about a game I like to play, not to read constant crybaby posts about nerfing things that don't need to be nerfed.

4 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Welcome to the forums, you are not official a veteran.
Which is kind of amazing as you seem to be new to X-Wing. A 3 HP ship which relies on taking 0.2 damage at best per round has actually quite the problem with getting one extra damage per round. So yeah, playing Pokemon instead of playing Imperial Aces might be indeed in order. ;-)

Not that I am recommending a Sabine nerf.

I've been playing since Wave 2 and won many tournaments. Not a new player.

6 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

People got all hot and bothered by Palp and x7 and they were also once per round and added one extra result. Why does Sabine get a free pass in this case?

Palpatine was 1 per round, every round, whenever you needed him. He is now 1 per round every round, but you have to call the roll. 8 pts.

x/7 was 1 per round, every round that you do a 3, 4, or 5 speed maneuver (very easy to accomplish). It's now 1 per round every round if you don't overlap or can otherwise perform an action. -2 pts.

Sabine is 1 per round if a bomb detonates, and there is a ship at range 1 of that detonation. 2 pts.

I don't see how the first two are at all comparable to the last one.

14 minutes ago, unnklefunkle said:

Palpatine was 1 per round, every round, whenever you needed him. He is now 1 per round every round, but you have to call the roll. 8 pts.

x/7 was 1 per round, every round that you do a 3, 4, or 5 speed maneuver (very easy to accomplish). It's now 1 per round every round if you don't overlap or can otherwise perform an action. -2 pts.

Sabine is 1 per round if a bomb detonates, and there is a ship at range 1 of that detonation. 2 pts.

I don't see how the first two are at all comparable to the last one.

Palp added a result that could be blocked for 8 pts and 2 crew slots. It costing more than Sabine means it should do more.

x7 was adjusting an overpriced ship to make it competitive. And despite people dismissing the speed as a downside, I can say from experience that it can be. The evade token could still be negated by several effects and pilots.

Sabine gives a bomb slot and adds an unblockable damage to a bomb detonation. Add to that being able to run over a bomb yourself, then deal the Sabine damage to an enemy in range. All for 2 points.

While there are differences, the same basic pattern holds between the three cards and whatever short comings Sabine has compared to the other two cards is made up be her price and additional effects.

14 minutes ago, Darth Landy said:

I come here to read and discuss strategies about a game I like to play, not to read constant crybaby posts about nerfing things that don't need to be nerfed.

Again. You're free to scroll past rather than waste your time reading and whining about things you allegedly don't want to read.

I'm by no means an accomplished Imperial Ace player, but I wonder if part of the solution to the issue of bombs is Combined Arms. I mean, that's the traditional solution to strong counters. The presence if anti-tank weaponry doesn't mean tanks are unusable, it means they need to be combined with infantry support. Instead of 3 Interceptors, maybe one Interceptor with supporting ships that can handle bombers better is the key.

The K-wing was a natural evolution from the Imp Ace meta which demanded 360 shooting and damage through green dice. The fact that it is so daunting to the imperial faction highlights just how narrowly dependent on PS arc-dodging that faction had become. As a Rebel player, I can tell you the rebels desperately needed the constant Ace threat diminished to open up list building - since the Kwings rise rebel lists have become more diverse. With that in mind I don't think it is good to nerf bombs.

The defender is still a quality ship. Competitive play has seen the meta shift away from their favor and the simple answer to that for most players is to shift to a different list. The defender itself is still a solid ship that can become a mainstay with another meta shift.

I think Imperials need the swarm to be revitalized. I would like to see a cross-faction release for a modification upgrade - Aged Tech - that reduces the cost of the ship by 2 and can only be equipped to unnamed pilots of listed ships (Tie fighter, z-95, Tie interceptor....etc.). This would be meant to create more room in lists using cheap generics in swarms.

I would also look at a modification upgrade for certain Tie ships (fighter, interceptor, F/O) that adds a green die if you have two friendlies at range 1, or you get 1 additional green die if a friendly is at range 1 of the attacker, or you get 1 additional green die if the attacker was hit by an attack this round, or you get 1 additional green die if there is another friendly ship in the enemy's firing arc. These are all things aimed at creating a swarm play-style of aggressively closing down on enemies with too many targets to shoot. In order to create interesting games Imperials need to be able to get through the game opening having thinned the enemy ranks without taking critical losses. The Tie aggressor is going to help 3 ship lists damage without arc but beyond that I think Imperials and the game need a swarm renaissance.

TL;DR - An Ace with 4+ other ships should be a more supported archetype. Imperials should be able to throw ships at a problem until there is a margin for error for their elite ship to exploit. That is better done by buffing imperial ship synergy than nerfing.

5 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'm by no means an accomplished Imperial Ace player, but I wonder if part of the solution to the issue of bombs is Combined Arms. I mean, that's the traditional solution to strong counters. The presence if anti-tank weaponry doesn't mean tanks are unusable, it means they need to be combined with infantry support. Instead of 3 Interceptors, maybe one Interceptor with supporting ships that can handle bombers better is the key.

The only problem with that is not a lot of good options are out there for Imps to provide a screen for Imp Aces. Most Traditional aces are a third of the list, making their support limited to begin with. Swarms could help, but they have fallen by the wayside as well.

It is hilarious whenever a ship gets plowed over in Epic. The only person to blame is yourself, you took the attack run at the wrong angle.

I use that same logic when jousting (dang it! Why did I try head on?), snipe vs turrets (ugh! Should of just charged in) or get a face full of bombs (I should have seen that coming)

Any one of these scenarios is frustrating, but comes back to how well you fly.

That being said.... Sabine.... I like the suggestion of her effect only to the ship triggering or large ships only. Feels a little more right. (Only Vader should be able to kill through tv screeens )

1 hour ago, SabineKey said:

The only problem with that is not a lot of good options are out there for Imps to provide a screen for Imp Aces. Most Traditional aces are a third of the list, making their support limited to begin with. Swarms could help, but they have fallen by the wayside as well.

I thin SFs are the best bet right now. Maybe Strikers. Bombers with Unguided Rockets might be able to fill this roll in the future.

8 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I thin SFs are the best bet right now. Maybe Strikers. Bombers with Unguided Rockets might be able to fill this roll in the future.

Probably, though they do get expensive.

4 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I thin SFs are the best bet right now. Maybe Strikers. Bombers with Unguided Rockets might be able to fill this roll in the future.

"Bombs" in the current meta are almost entirely the province of K-Wings, which are part of the Biggs faction. As such, I don't believe Unguided Rockets are going to help. Bombers with ordnance and Long-Range Scanners would probably serve as a better deterrent, as they could ignore Biggs with target-locked torpedoes/missiles.

No. Just don't go behind the Kwing..

1 minute ago, Zazaa said:

No. Just don't go behind the Kwing..

The problem is with Advanced Slam, a K-Wing can turn a pretty large area into "behind it" and drop bombs that cover a large area.

So some potential nerfs:

Make Sabine a roll

Make AdvSlam action bar

Make Sabine only for bombs, not mines (if the ship doesn't roll dice)

What if Extra Munitions removed the bomb icon, then it becomes more expensive to carry mines and a ship is limited to only 3 bombs with Sabine.

Defender gets to roll defense dice (maybe only roll their agility value minus 2)

But I also remember last year all the talk about how powerful arc dodgers had become and they needed a counter, one came so it now needs nerfed. It is completely possible to approach a single Bombing ship without fear of it slamming a bomb in your face(very difficult when there are multiple bombers), approach in the rear 180°(not being directly behind) and stay at range 2-3, then disengage.

2 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Palp added a result that could be blocked for 8 pts and 2 crew slots. It costing more than Sabine means it should do more.

x7 was adjusting an overpriced ship to make it competitive. And despite people dismissing the speed as a downside, I can say from experience that it can be. The evade token could still be negated by several effects and pilots.

Sabine gives a bomb slot and adds an unblockable damage to a bomb detonation. Add to that being able to run over a bomb yourself, then deal the Sabine damage to an enemy in range. All for 2 points.

While there are differences, the same basic pattern holds between the three cards and whatever short comings Sabine has compared to the other two cards is made up be her price and additional effects.

Sorry, not even close. Palp made certain ships near invincible. Sabine doesn't. She's way more balanced, so much so that FFG even errata'd Cluster Mines to now include crits because those bombs just weren't worth the points.

The bottom line is Sabine is not dominating and therefore does not need a nerf. I just came back from Worlds and in the seven matches that I played there was only one Sabine, on my Ghost. I went 4-3. Also the only other bomb I saw in those seven matches was a Cluster Mine on a Y-Wing. Didn't see all that many K-wings on the other tables, either, but did see a ton of jumpmasters and Fangs.

So the problem isn't bombs or Sabine. The real problem is somebody loses their game, then immediately comes here to press the nerf button. It's getting ridiculous already how every second post here over the past few months is nerf this or nerf that. Newsflash: these are forums, not nerfums.

2 hours ago, Stevey86 said:

Again. You're free to scroll past rather than waste your time reading and whining about things you allegedly don't want to read.

Have you seen the forums lately? It's a serious question. Please go take a look. There is an insane amount of cry-baby nerf posts that it's off-putting. This used to be a great place with great discussions but not lately.

So again, things get nerfed when they need to be nerfed (i.e. causing a serious problem). Sabine is not even close. You may not like it, but that doesn't mean she's broken.

As for the op, no I don't agree ..

And considering how almost every thread keeps degenerating into how Sabine needs a nerf, I really think I'm going to have Sabine in my list for store champs this year ..

Sabine doesn't need nerfing, IMO. But ... threads ******* about nerf threads are way more irritating than nerf threads themselves. Just ignore them, if you don't like them. It's not difficult. I read maybe one-quarter of the threads on the front page.

2 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Palp added a result that could be blocked for 8 pts and 2 crew slots. It costing more than Sabine means it should do more.

x7 was adjusting an overpriced ship to make it competitive. And despite people dismissing the speed as a downside, I can say from experience that it can be. The evade token could still be negated by several effects and pilots.

Sabine gives a bomb slot and adds an unblockable damage to a bomb detonation. Add to that being able to run over a bomb yourself, then deal the Sabine damage to an enemy in range. All for 2 points.

While there are differences, the same basic pattern holds between the three cards and whatever short comings Sabine has compared to the other two cards is made up be her price and additional effects.

Is there a world of difference between Sabine and Ruthlessness? Both make you not fly in formations that may be optimal for your squadron. 2 Glaives with ruthlesness and X7 are nothing to be trifled with, IMHO.

2 hours ago, SabineKey said:

The only problem with that is not a lot of good options are out there for Imps to provide a screen for Imp Aces. Most Traditional aces are a third of the list, making their support limited to begin with. Swarms could help, but they have fallen by the wayside as well.

RAC?

8 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Sabine doesn't need nerfing, IMO. But ... threads ******* about nerf threads are way more irritating than nerf threads themselves. Just ignore them, if you don't like them. It's not difficult. I read maybe one-quarter of the threads on the front page.

Really it wouldn't be that bad if it was one or two posts every once in awhile. That's normal game chatter. The problem is that it has gotten so out of hand on these forums that some people have resorted to making joke nerf posts. Maybe FFG should just make a nerf section where people can whine about nerfing until their heart's content so the main forum can get back to actual meaningful discussions.