Miranda almost requires you to have have turrets in your list to kill her (or PTL aces that are extinct). Reason why Imps are struggling. The aggressor will go far in terms of helping imps survive. Miranda no likey TLTs.

EDIT: Oh, forgot to talk about Pulse Shield!

Inaldra + Mangler/Ion/Fletchette + Pulse Shield is going instantly into my Ketsu/Terry mindlink list. Yeah, come and waste attacks killing her, she will spend a shield to reroll all her greens, then regen it right back. Or ignore her and let her crit/ion/stress you. Gonna be fun!

1 minute ago, wurms said:

Miranda almost requires you to have have turrets in your list to kill her (or PTL aces that are extinct). Reason why Imps are struggling. The aggressor will go far in terms of helping imps survive. Miranda no likey TLTs.

Yes but that just treats the symptom. Let's not make TLT an auto include in every list.

1 hour ago, Kdubb said:

In my early tests with the upgrade on vassal, it has been amazing. You'd be amazed how many times you are fine doing a 1 white straight even if your opponent knows all about it. HWKs and Scyks are real threats with this thing. K-fighters ans Vipers I'm not quite sold on.

This was most interesting to read... anecdotal evidence saying that it's actually a good upgrade. I can't see how Pulsed Ray Shield can be worth much at all if you're ionizing yourself to use it, as you are telegraphing your next turn's movement. That is all the time some opposing ships need to set up for some painful following turns. Perhaps the situational value happens more than my theorycrafting brain can predict. I guess I'll just have to see it in play for myself.

36 minutes ago, Sir13scott said:

To be fair when she isn't shooting it's usually because she has slammed to drop bombs/get out of firing range. She can't do the Corran thing where she bails out, regen a the shields, and then returns to the fight, however with TLT she can stay effectively in the fight without taking damage fairly easy. Blinded pilot and by extension "I'll show you the dark side" are the only real counters to her regen power.

Like I have said, she is tough. I do not think she needs nerfed, just her power to regen. If TLT is considered one attack for the purposes of tactician and FCS then I think her ability should affect both rolls of the dice. That means if she wants to regen, her damage output is damaged pretty bad, but if she spends a shield on TLT her damage output increases greatly. Call it a Miranda Nerf/buff. That is all I'm suggesting.

To be honest, I'd rather just see a TLT nerf, it's long overdue. It's so much better than the other turret upgrades it's not even funny.

That said, Nand's Miranda didn't even have TLT.

23 minutes ago, Elavion said:

To be honest, I'd rather just see a TLT nerf, it's long overdue. It's so much better than the other turret upgrades it's not even funny.

Yeah, but that's because all the other turrets are either too situational or just plain crap.

The K-Wing's "problem" isn't Miranda's regen but Sabine crew I think...

1 hour ago, SabineKey said:

Yeah, but that's because all the other turrets are either too situational or just plain crap.

It's a matter of perspective.

Much like the u-boats were considered unplayable for a good while after the Deadeye nerf

Just now, Elavion said:

It's a matter of perspective.

Much like the u-boats were considered unplayable for a good while after the Deadeye nerf

My perspective on them comes from experience. My first ship was a HWK and I've used it all through out my X-Wing career. I know the other turrets.

I do love this community.

Discussion on PSR turns into a back and forth about the TLT lol.

Don't know if its been mentioned but Pulse Ray shield on generic Khiraxz with Feedback Array lets you Feedback every round basically without taking any damage. The extra Ion token has no negative effect since its a small ship.

It is flat out inane that Imps can't take this. In a Kanan/Biggs, Mindlink everything, Fenn rolling 5 dice for anything, Miranda troll meta... we're worried about OL taking an ion turn. Seriously?!

I feel this has been made for patients players and therefore skilled players also. You need to be able to take advantage of the white straight move or another tactic is to fly away from combat and use it bit further away so you won't be destroyed while you do the white straight move. I have seen good fleeings from a fight and getting good opportunity for flanking.

I'm thinking that this won't see play much at first but after the tactics sink in to the people it will be seen on tables. This might be good upgrade to get Starvipers and Kihrax out in the field with Scyk.

I'm thinking that this might bring Xizor back. He could deliver some damage to Kihrax or fellow Starvipers and they could regen to handle more damage.

Xizor (31)

Attani mindlink(1)

Virago(1)

Fire control system (2)

Autothrusters(2)

Intial dampeners (1)

Black sun Ace (23)

Attani mindlink (1)

Homing missiles (5)

Pulse ray shields (2)

Black sun Ace (23)

Attani mindlink (1)

Homing missiles (5)

Pulse ray shields (2)

Total:100p

Could wiggle some points around, like those Homing missiles could be changed to torps on Xizor etc.

Mines getting bolted to Guri

1 hour ago, Zazaa said:

Could wiggle some points around, like those Homing missiles could be changed to torps on Xizor etc.

... and Scavenger Crane (instead of ID), so when a BSA does pop it serves an additional benefit.

12 hours ago, Sonikgav said:

I do love this community.

Discussion on PSR turns into a back and forth about the TLT lol.

Not to forget, turning into another whining orgy about Imperials and their "useless" ships.

12 hours ago, Lobokai said:

It is flat out inane that Imps can't take this. In a Kanan/Biggs, Mindlink everything, Fenn rolling 5 dice for anything, Miranda troll meta... we're worried about OL taking an ion turn. Seriously?!

Its bad anyways, so why even care?

I believe PRS will have no impact at all. I'd be very happy to be wrong, but in a world where the ships able to take it are so prone to blowing up in merely one turn, 2 points of do nothing aren't really worth it. Even if you use it, you are still very likely to blow up the next turn when your opponent knows exactly where you are. Sure a 2 point Shield Upgrade (kind of) sounds alright, but all of these ships are overcosted to varying degrees where this is still throwing good points after bad ones. They need to do things better instead of being more durable at being bad.

14 hours ago, Lobokai said:

It is flat out inane that Imps can't take this. In a Kanan/Biggs, Mindlink everything, Fenn rolling 5 dice for anything, Miranda troll meta... we're worried about OL taking an ion turn. Seriously?!

I would guess either

(a) we're still lagging behind in design terms from an era dominated by imps. Imps didn't need a boost a year ago and it was in the pipeline along with palp nerf etc.
(b) it's a fluff thing (rebels have a lot of overlap with scum)

2 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Its bad anyways, so why even care?

I believe PRS will have no impact at all. I'd be very happy to be wrong, but in a world where the ships able to take it are so prone to blowing up in merely one turn, 2 points of do nothing aren't really worth it. Even if you use it, you are still very likely to blow up the next turn when your opponent knows exactly where you are. Sure a 2 point Shield Upgrade (kind of) sounds alright, but all of these ships are overcosted to varying degrees where this is still throwing good points after bad ones. They need to do things better instead of being more durable at being bad.

I think the Scyk and the HWK are in at least a healthy place, although far below the top meta line. Maybe if some of the top tier ships are dealt with by FFG, these ships can see some more competitive play.

While many of these ships do die quickly, consider the times they don't. Say you have controlled range on the initial engagement with your HLC scyks/TLT HWKs. You pummel the opposition with your guns that love to be at range 3, and their return fire plinks through a damage, maybe 2. You are far enough away still at this point that a 1 straight, even if telegraphed, is not a major downfall. In most jousting scenarios or TLT "I'll float wherever and still get a shot" scenarios, your movement is far less important than it is for an arc dodger. In the TLT example you'll want your ship turned away from the engagement though. That's one thing that's really great about this upgrade. To use it optimally, you have to look a turn ahead with your dials consistently.

The true power comes in the late game though. Think of how impossible Corran can become to kill in late game scenarios. Pulsed Ray Shield can do similar work (at a much smaller level). You engage, disengage, regen, then repeat. It's not as simple as it is with Corran, but I think you are underestimating the value of regen on a 3 agility ship and/or a turret platform.

10 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

I think the Scyk and the HWK are in at least a healthy place, although far below the top meta line. Maybe if some of the top tier ships are dealt with by FFG, these ships can see some more competitive play.

While many of these ships do die quickly, consider the times they don't. Say you have controlled range on the initial engagement with your HLC scyks/TLT HWKs. You pummel the opposition with your guns that love to be at range 3, and their return fire plinks through a damage, maybe 2. You are far enough away still at this point that a 1 straight, even if telegraphed, is not a major downfall. In most jousting scenarios or TLT "I'll float wherever and still get a shot" scenarios, your movement is far less important than it is for an arc dodger. The TLT example you'll want your ship turned away from the engagement though. That's one thing that's really great about this upgrade. To use it optimally, you have to look a turn ahead with your dials consistently.

The true power comes in the late game though. Think of how impossible Corran can become to kill in late game scenarios. Pulsed Ray Shield can do similar work (at a much smaller level). You engage, disengage, regen, then repeat. It's not as simple as it is with Corran, but I think you are underestimating the value of regen on a 3 agility ship and/or a turret platform.

Only being able to regen one shield puts this leagues below the shenanigans Corran and co can pull off. I think the level PRS operates on is so much lower that it is not worth it to increase already expensive ships by two points.

In the TC open where Kihraxz get a discount, I'm running five marauders with PRS and Black Market Slicers. Only one game so far against Biggs, Wes and Corran. Lost one ship before any of them had a chance to fire. Came back to win.

1. Ion is probably only going to be one ship per turn. The rest of your list can be unpredictable and opponent either ignores the ioned ship or makes themselves predictable.
2. By playing with activation order, you can still adjust your positions enough to be suprising.
3. Not just giving up against rebel regen is nice.
4. Slicer tools are PtL Corran's nightmare.
5. Kihraxz is still garbage outside of these custom rules but Scyk could be interesting.

54 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

In the TC open where Kihraxz get a discount, I'm running five marauders with PRS and Black Market Slicers. Only one game so far against Biggs, Wes and Corran. Lost one ship before any of them had a chance to fire. Came back to win.

1. Ion is probably only going to be one ship per turn. The rest of your list can be unpredictable and opponent either ignores the ioned ship or makes themselves predictable.
2. By playing with activation order, you can still adjust your positions enough to be suprising.
3. Not just giving up against rebel regen is nice.
4. Slicer tools are PtL Corran's nightmare.
5. Kihraxz is still garbage outside of these custom rules but Scyk could be interesting.

And that, I think is the key part of this- Rebels generally have a regen ace that must see endgame, that cannot be defeated solo (corran/miranda/poe/Red Ace ect)

Scum give regen to the common swarm, making any failed kill an extra 20-25% heath and making the enemy predictable to the rest of your list.

My thoughts:

-PRS is great on a hawk because the only other real modification options are hull/shield/VT, I think it is good.

-I agree with the starviper that it is probably better on low PS generics, but it does not matter because the ship is still broken.

- It does not work on higher PS Kisbdbfkzkbf because they have not means of repositioning without the use of the modification slot (VT or engine), so there is no room at the inn.

- The Scyk is a quandry. I fly mindlinked Sycks a lot, and I am a firm believer in Stealth Device on them. This shaves a point (each) AND effectively gives them a 1-straight that they despiritly needs. I am going to have to spend some table time with this to see how it balances out.

On 09 May 2017 at 10:38 PM, mkevans80 said:

This was most interesting to read... anecdotal evidence saying that it's actually a good upgrade. I can't see how Pulsed Ray Shield can be worth much at all if you're ionizing yourself to use it, as you are telegraphing your next turn's movement. That is all the time some opposing ships need to set up for some painful following turns. Perhaps the situational value happens more than my theorycrafting brain can predict. I guess I'll just have to see it in play for myself.

I guess it depends on what exactly is using that ionised one straight.

Low PS pilots not only telegraph their maneuver, but put themselves in a position where they can be shot before they can return fire.

A high PS Ace like Serissu might get good use out of it. Or even Xizor, since he can palm one damage off to a cohort, and then regenerate another. TBC probably prefers Vectored Engines, though.

12 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

I guess it depends on what exactly is using that ionised one straight.

Low PS pilots not only telegraph their maneuver, but put themselves in a position where they can be shot before they can return fire.

A high PS Ace like Serissu might get good use out of it. Or even Xizor, since he can palm one damage off to a cohort, and then regenerate another. TBC probably prefers Vectored Engines, though.

It'll need some testing but I'm not sure that telegraphing the 1 forward is such a huge problem. Sckys want to snipe at range 3 anyway, and if they've managed to get a good engagement, getting the shot on them without getting ioned by their mates might be tough - and that's assumign they haven't ionised YOU anyway.

The list I'm thinking of running (though I'll need a fourth Scyk, words never before spoken XD) is Inaldra, Genesis Red and 2 TPVs, all with Mindlink, Ion Cannon, Heavy Scyk, Pulsed Ray Shield. Sure, I telegraph what I'm doing if I use PRS, but I get the choice after I already know whether I've ionised the key ships on your side...