Players cheated out of a game at large venues like Worlds have a lot more than just their hopes wasted. They have likely spent hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on registration, traveling, and accommodations for the duration of the event. For international travel, especially, this can really add up. They have spent hundreds of dollars on their list. They are missing four or more days of work to attend, which means vacation time or missed pay. Missing the cut because of a game stolen by cheating can mean missing out onprizes, which often have high values on the secondary market. As such, to go to Worlds and invest thousands of dollars only to be dislodged by a cheater has a real dollar-tag amount associated with it, and you've been unjustly removed from the event by someone who is not adhering to the contract of the activity (the game rules and tournament regulations).

FFG had better be working especially hard on making sure everything is square with the victims of the cheating incident, especially so if the true reason why he could not be given a win for the game in which he was cheated against is because FFG's TOME software cannot easily handle rectifying past rounds.

Fly Casual

13 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Players cheated out of a game at large venues like Worlds have a lot more than just their hopes wasted. They have likely spent hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on registration, traveling, and accommodations for the duration of the event. For international travel, especially, this can really add up. They have spent hundreds of dollars on their list. They are missing four or more days of work to attend, which means vacation time or missed pay. Missing the cut because of a game stolen by cheating can mean missing out onprizes, which often have high values on the secondary market. As such, to go to Worlds and invest thousands of dollars only to be dislodged by a cheater has a real dollar-tag amount associated with it, and you've been unjustly removed from the event by someone who is not adhering to the contract of the activity (the game rules and tournament regulations).

FFG had better be working especially hard on making sure everything is square with the victims of the cheating incident, especially so if the true reason why he could not be given a win for the game in which he was cheated against is because FFG's TOME software cannot easily handle rectifying past rounds.

I understand he was made happy. How is not your problem.

I agree with both the OPs point and the above response to the resolution being private.

The only thing I will add is that I hope the resolution is compensatory enough that FFG decides to reevaluate how they deal with these situations, if only to prevent FFG from having to "make it right" after the fact.

Agreed, if the cheated party is happy then we need not be concerned further with it - except for the part where FFG should put in place some hard and fast rules on how these things are handled.

As far as the offended player and his happiness with the situation, that's none of our business -- as long as he's happy we have no position. We have no idea what he was compensated with. He may have gotten a free ticket for next year (maybe a free trip even), any number or all the prizes from the prize wall, or anything in between. Again, none of our business.

I do feel however that, as X-wing players in general and certainly as competitive players, we have a legitimate stake in how FFG approaches the handling of this sort of thing in the future.

As far as the cheater: I don't know how he could show his face on Sunday. I was hoping he would make the cut or even win, just to watch the s***storm that was sure to follow...

Make sure to check out the latest 3.2 Company podcast if you want to hear from Mike, who was the most negatively effected player in "dial gate" (he was the player's opponent). It's a pretty low key podcast, pretty much feels like you are hanging out with a bunch of goofy drinking buddies, but if you want to hear the outlook from the player himself, you have that option.

https://3point2company.com/podcast/2017/5/8/worlds-x-wing-day-2-3-worlds-changed-you-man

Edit: Maybe they don't really talk about it after all.. Nevermind ha.

Just let it go, man. I'm sure the 'victims' of the 'crime'dont need you to fight their case. When you enter a tournament you trust the TO to resolve these situations fairly. If you don't trust the TO don't go to the tournament.

47 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

Make sure to check out the latest 3.2 Company podcast if you want to hear from Mike, who was the most negatively effected player in "dial gate" (he was the player's opponent). It's a pretty low key podcast, pretty much feels like you are hanging out with a bunch of goofy drinking buddies, but if you want to hear the outlook from the player himself, you have that option.

https://3point2company.com/podcast/2017/5/8/worlds-x-wing-day-2-3-worlds-changed-you-man

Edit: Maybe they don't really talk about it after all.. Nevermind ha.

Yeah, I was going to mention that. I'm sure not talking about it is part of the deal, understandably from FFGs end.

But you are right - hanging with literal drinking buddies LOL. I did add them to my (ever growing) queue of podcasts, so thanks for that Kdubb

1 hour ago, Estarriol said:

Just let it go, man. ... If you don't trust the TO don't go to the tournament.

This is sort of my point, though. While the specific resolution between FFG and the wronged player are their business and not ours, we all have a stake in the general sense of how FFG responds to these situations. You say that "if we don't trust the TOs we shouldn't go the tournament," and it's not an exaggeration to say my thoughts about going to future World Champhionships must take into account the way that this was handled by FFG. It's already pretty hard to justify taking 4-6 days off of work and family to pay for travel and board at the World Championships for a dice game. If you think that a cheater can come along, cost you a game, and get just a slap on the wrist while you're left with a lingering and undeserved loss (in a tourney where only losing a couple of your games across two days will knock you out of the running) makes it even less tempting.

This is why I think we--the competitive players who do sometimes travel to Minnesota for Worlds--should all be a bit invested in how FFG has handls this situation and similar situations, since we all may find ourselves in facing something similar in some future event.

4 hours ago, SOTL said:

I understand he was made happy. How is not your problem.

Hey, would you be able to direct me to where you learned this?

While I agree the specifics don't need to be public, I think an announcement that it did occur would be an appropriate step of accountability for FFG.

IMO, the costs of travel, food, lodging and prize support is irrelevant. All players who participated voluntarily chose to attend and spend their time and money for the event (without the guarantee of making the cut).

Although it appears FFG chose to privately compensate the affected player, cheating did occur. What happens when that behavior is observed is the issue (especially at a Worlds Championship event).

4 hours ago, SOTL said:

I understand he was made happy. How is not your problem.

Well, hopefully your 9th post is something worthwhile and intelligent, because this one was a bust.

I don't play competitively, but the resolution to this incident affects every player contemplating attending the tournament. As the OP said, there is a large time and money investment involved in traveling to attend, and a high opportunity cost. Time being the only finite currency we have in life, players should have the reasonable guarantee that their time won't be wasted due to cheating, nor the inability of the tournament organizers to make appropriate fixes.

He was given a game loss, right? I do agree they should have given the opponent he cheated against a win, but give the person a loss and move on sounds exactly right to me. If it is a multiple offense thing, consider suspending OP play. Treat this like every other game, ever.

11 minutes ago, TheHumanHydra said:

Hey, would you be able to direct me to where you learned this?

While I agree the specifics don't need to be public, I think an announcement that it did occur would be an appropriate step of accountability for FFG.

Here it is:

2 hours ago, Estarriol said:

Just let it go, man. I'm sure the 'victims' of the 'crime'dont need you to fight their case. When you enter a tournament you trust the TO to resolve these situations fairly. If you don't trust the TO don't go to the tournament.

Trust, but verify.

6 minutes ago, haslo said:

Here it is:

Hey, thanks, I did read that one; I was wondering if there was a follow-up that said an accommodation had been reached, as SOTL seemed certain.

5 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Players cheated out of a game at large venues like Worlds have a lot more than just their hopes wasted. They have likely spent hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on registration, traveling, and accommodations for the duration of the event. For international travel, especially, this can really add up. They have spent hundreds of dollars on their list. They are missing four or more days of work to attend, which means vacation time or missed pay. Missing the cut because of a game stolen by cheating can mean missing out onprizes, which often have high values on the secondary market. As such, to go to Worlds and invest thousands of dollars only to be dislodged by a cheater has a real dollar-tag amount associated with it, and you've been unjustly removed from the event by someone who is not adhering to the contract of the activity (the game rules and tournament regulations).

FFG had better be working especially hard on making sure everything is square with the victims of the cheating incident, especially so if the true reason why he could not be given a win for the game in which he was cheated against is because FFG's TOME software cannot easily handle rectifying past rounds.

I mean this in THE nicest, "fly casual" kind of way, but 2 things:

1. What has it got to do with ANY of us?

2. The more significant point. I feel for the guy that lost to him, he placed his trust in his opponent that he would give him the same respect that he gave. Cheating is wrong, simple as that, my 9 year old knows that and so does the guy that cheated. I believe FFG spoke with the cheats opponent and was in some way compensated, good for them. But ultimately, it's between FFG and the "injured" party. Seriously we need to move the **** along and work out whats coming good for Store Champs and the next rotation of competitive X-Wing.

1 hour ago, chervorlovesu said:

He was given a game loss, right? I do agree they should have given the opponent he cheated against a win, but give the person a loss and move on sounds exactly right to me. If it is a multiple offense thing, consider suspending OP play. Treat this like every other game, ever.

You seem not to thinking this through. Mathematically the cheater had the option to lose the game or cheat himself a win. His punishment seems to have been to take a loss in his next game, which might have been a win or loss for him.
So he traded a statistical 1.5 losses against one loss, assuming that he had a 50/50 chance to win the next game.

I would take those chances every time. Especially if this secures me to make the cut and about $1000 in merchandise. (total worth is a guess, iirc the top 32 dice go for $500, I would assume that the medal sells for at least a similar amount), even the target locks for making it into day two seem to be worth at least $100 ;-)

15 minutes ago, boomaster said:

I mean this in THE nicest, "fly casual" kind of wa ings:

1. What has it got to disn'tith ANY of us?.sign ificant point. I feecheaterl for the guy that lost to him, he placed his trust in his opponent that he would give him the same respect that he gave. Cheating is wrong, simple as that, my 9 year old knows that and so does the guy that cheated. I believe FFG spoke with the cheats opponent and was in some way compensated, good for them. But ultimately, it's between FFG and the "injured" party. Seriously we need to move the **** along and work out whats coming good for Store Champs and the next rotation of competitive X-Wing.

It has everything to do with us. How FFG handled the cheat anyway.

If FFG is soft onncheating then it destroys the credibility of their games and events.

Why should people spends $$$ to go to worlds if FFG isnt going to maintain the integrity of their own game? What if other TOs follow suit? Suddenly we all suffer because FFG was soft on a cheater

4 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

It has everything to do with us. How FFG handled the cheat anyway.

If FFG is soft onncheating then it destroys the credibility of their games and events.

Why should people spends $$$ to go to worlds if FFG isnt

For F(_)CK sake ,I can't even contain how excited I am that this wasn't posted in the humongous ongoing threads that allready mentioned how much it costs to go to world's.

well last time I played in a large event (20+ years ago) no one twisted my arm and demanded that I go, I saved my money, made hotel reservations, drove there, signed up for the event in advance, played through the first four rounds (didn't make the cut to advance) yes there was a cheating incident (no not me being cheated) the cheated player was compensated so we were told. That was it, This call for FFG to pay this persons, room, metals, travel is way off base, game companies would go out of business if they did that. FFG said they settled the matter, fine...move along move along nothing here to see anymore...