1 minute ago, Jondavies72 said:The only really effective anti fighter cards are Demo (on a glad 2) and the two raider titles (with OE) when linked with kalus and/or ruthless. These do give the Imps some limited options to develop focused AAA ship builds, but the Rebels have none?.
Toryn Farr may be the single best anti-squad upgrade in the game. Put her near a couple of ships and they gain a significant AS boost.
1 minute ago, Madaghmire said:Was it a 2 Pt?
Yes, Glad2, Projections Experts, SFO. Essentially I went for a supertanky ISD (Motti, RBD and a support shield feeder) with heavy AA support.
1 minute ago, pt106 said:Yes, Glad2, Projections Experts, SFO. Essentially I went for a supertanky ISD (Motti, RBD and a support shield feeder) with heavy AA support.
Cute. I like it.
It would also be fun if they address the squadron issue with objectives. Like mines for squadrons that ignore ships, jamming fields like the card, aces deploy first.
Also makes me think that ffg wanted this game focused on ships, since none of the objectives give big advantages against squadrons.
19 minutes ago, Xeletor said:It would also be fun if they address the squadron issue with objectives. Like mines for squadrons that ignore ships, jamming fields like the card, aces deploy first.
Also makes me think that ffg wanted this game focused on ships, since none of the objectives give big advantages against squadrons.
If we're playing the "maybe" game, does Jamming Field help against the aces significantly?
Just now, geek19 said:If we're playing the "maybe" game, does Jamming Field help against the aces significantly?
On the flotilla I havent tried it. On an imaginary objective it could affect only the first player.
10 minutes ago, geek19 said:If we're playing the "maybe" game, does Jamming Field help against the aces significantly?
Jamming Field+GH+Jan+Biggs+Jamming Barrier. For when you never want to die.
1 hour ago, xero989 said:Flotillas- are just flotillas they are not 'ships' they do not prevent tableing. As they are not ships they can not be and objective ship, or flag ship.
Ships can have upgrades, if flotillas are not ships they don't get upgrades.
I have an idea on how to reliably beat rieekan aces with and without gallant haven, as in first/second/objective doesn't matter. I'm going through my self testing to see if it works out and initial results are positive.
18 minutes ago, mythics said:I have an idea on how to reliably beat rieekan aces with and without gallant haven, as in first/second/objective doesn't matter. I'm going through my self testing to see if it works out and initial results are positive.
Care to throw me a bone?
22 minutes ago, mythics said:I have an idea on how to reliably beat rieekan aces with and without gallant haven, as in first/second/objective doesn't matter. I'm going through my self testing to see if it works out and initial results are positive.
Presumably while still being effective against other strong lists.
14 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:Care to throw me a bone?
Mon Mothma. Especially played very aggressively with MC30's. I have been dealing with it this way for 5 months. Also strong against pretty much everything else.
Tradeoff: low tolerance for very bad dice luck, both offensively and defensively. If Mothma consistently rerolls red and black doubles into equal results, or you can't fish up the APT procs when you need them, it can all fall apart fast. Both are very low likelihood, but lead to devastating losses when they happen.
7 hours ago, cynanbloodbane said:Personally, I think an AA Flotilla per faction would go a long way towards countering high Squadron lists of any kind.
I'm thinking 0-1 anti-ship, 3 blue anti-squadron.
Don't neuter squadrons, just give them something to fear.
I would love an AA flotilla, for reasons
A card I'd love to see is Cluster Bombs that strike all squadrons in range in response to a fighter attack .
When it works, Cluster bombs can deal up to 4 pretty reliable damage against a target. The problem is how restricted it is being a discard and swatting only one target. Most bombers have 5-6 hull; carving 4 out of it is not a pretty prospect for the bomber.
But can you imagine that upgrade card you hold back until Yavaris B-Wings come into range, then saying, "Screw you" and slapping all of them with a decent amount of damage, then finish them off with a few rounds of AA fire?
That's the kind of card I want to see for big ships, something to give fighters pause and be really punishing under the right circumstances. Quad Laser Turrets is another example of a card that could work, but the singular blue dice is kind of disappointing whenever I've used it without anything else (Like H9 Warlord). It just needs a little something more to be proportional to the nearly-guranteed-3 damage out of B-Wings with Bomber command centers. Same thing with all of the anti-fighter cards in the offensive retrofit section. Big ships, if given the option, should be able to increase their AA effectiveness, because that's what the Meta needs right now to make big ships actually effective in the game. Bonus points if my VSDs can become threatening again.
36 minutes ago, Norsehound said:A card I'd love to see is Cluster Bombs that strike all squadrons in range in response to a fighter attack .
When it works, Cluster bombs can deal up to 4 pretty reliable damage against a target. The problem is how restricted it is being a discard and swatting only one target. Most bombers have 5-6 hull; carving 4 out of it is not a pretty prospect for the bomber.
But can you imagine that upgrade card you hold back until Yavaris B-Wings come into range, then saying, "Screw you" and slapping all of them with a decent amount of damage, then finish them off with a few rounds of AA fire?
That's the kind of card I want to see for big ships, something to give fighters pause and be really punishing under the right circumstances. Quad Laser Turrets is another example of a card that could work, but the singular blue dice is kind of disappointing whenever I've used it without anything else (Like H9 Warlord). It just needs a little something more to be proportional to the nearly-guranteed-3 damage out of B-Wings with Bomber command centers. Same thing with all of the anti-fighter cards in the offensive retrofit section. Big ships, if given the option, should be able to increase their AA effectiveness, because that's what the Meta needs right now to make big ships actually effective in the game. Bonus points if my VSDs can become threatening again.
Perhaps we will see an anti-squadron armament modification that simply adds an additional die to the attack pool.
1 hour ago, Warlord Zepnick said:Perhaps we will see an anti-squadron armament modification that simply adds an additional die to the attack pool.
...no, no we won't. Because a ship's anti-squadron hits every squadron in arc an upgrade like that would add way too much value. If it was non-unique as well, you would basically kill squadron lists overnight. It would be a scorched earth response to a narrow problem. Imagine trying to get normal squadrons in the same zip code as a pair of ships with triple flak in close formation.
3 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:
...no, no we won't. Because a ship's anti-squadron hits every squadron in arc an upgrade like that would add way too much value. If it was non-unique as well, you would basically kill squadron lists overnight. It would be a scorched earth response to a narrow problem. Imagine trying to get normal squadrons in the same zip code as a pair of ships with triple flak in close formation.
I would pay 8 points for that.
Yes you hit every squadron, but each time you do that, that could be a potential shot lossed
2 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:I would pay 8 points for that.
Yes you hit every squadron, but each time you do that, that could be a potential shot lossed
Uhh, only 8? I'd pay 12 because an upgrade like that removes the need for squadrons at all.
Sure you'd miss a shot, but if there are 4 squadrons in arc, that upgrade added 4 dice. EA and Spinal might add that over an entire game and you can get that in a round of shooting. Unless squadrons are making the game unplayable, I can't see this upgrade.
6 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:
Uhh, only 8? I'd pay 12 because an upgrade like that removes the need for squadrons at all.
Sure you'd miss a shot, but if there are 4 squadrons in arc, that upgrade added 4 dice. EA and Spinal might add that over an entire game and you can get that in a round of shooting. Unless squadrons are making the game unplayable, I can't see this upgrade.
No it doesn't. 1 extra die does not make it a forgone conclusion. It also depends on what slot it fills and what it gives. If you make it an ion upgrade that gives you a blue die, or a missile that gives you a black it is good but limited and really only good on Imperial ships.
Even so, 3 dice from an ISD is good but not fantastic, it would still take longer to kill a ball of 5 health squadrons than that ball could take out the ISD.
What if said card gave the ship Counter? And a counter with its AA armaments? (reminds me of Quad Laser Turrets... No take those anymore?)
Edited by Lyraeus
1 hour ago, Warlord Zepnick said:Perhaps we will see an anti-squadron armament modification that simply adds an additional die to the attack pool.
Something simple like this seems appropriate. If we can boost main battery armaments for all three colors, then surely it makes sense to create some card or set of cards that make adjustments to anti-squadron batteries as well.
Cluster Bombs is likely better than its reputation. CB bypasses brace, scatter, and GH. It is at its absolute best against aces. And although RBD has been noteworthy for the same points, RBD is responsive, whereas CB aims to change game state. Figuring out how to do that is your, the player's, task.
I'd love to see an upgrade that added an AA dice. It would need to be 8+ points and on a useful slot for balance. Given the glut of unique/named squads getting played now with so much brace/scatter and other mitigation going around it would not be devastating to anything but generic tie/intercepter/z95 swarms.
I'd also like to see a flotilla limit, like a 1:1 ratio for flotillas and ships (not crazy about not counting them toward tabling, or as part of the squad points as that hurts a LOT of lists just to curb reikan spam)..
The reason we're not going to see an increase in AA is very simple: You don't want to one-shot generic TIEs/Z-95s. Imagine if a Nebulon-B had three AA instead of two: It just needs to wade close enough to the fighter fight and then spray down every enemy fighter in a forward and side arc. If it doesn't elliminate a TIE cloud, it'll hurt many of them, enough for the few X-Wings that were suddenly swarmed to turn the tables and obliterate the fighter cover the Empire just had.
Cluster Bombs is balanced by comparison because it's a one-shot, targeting one fighter, so it can deal bypassed damage randomly. What makes it moot is attacking it with anything other than an ace, because you'll either want to force CB to be discarded against something not-optimal, or prevent it from being used as you're chipping away at it.
The hypothetical Cluster Bomb + I mentioned above has some counter-plays to it. You could avoid that particular ship (It is taking up a defense slot that's not taking ECMs/RBD), spread your fighters across different arcs, and so on. You could even modify the card to allow defense tokens against it, allowing aces to protect against it. You could mandate the four dice is rolled for every fighter instead of one result applied against every fighter. The point of this CB+ is to prevent Yavaris bomber clusters in the front arc for maximum damage, which is how at least I've been flattened by bomber clouds in the past. CB+ would be a nice way to flatten a Rebel bomber ball that had the audacity to cluster too close to my capital ship.
8 point Ion upgrade adds blue dice Anti squadron. Make raider IIs fire 4 dice at aces with kallus ho mai.
24 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:
...no, no we won't. Because a ship's anti-squadron hits every squadron in arc an upgrade like that would add way too much value. If it was non-unique as well, you would basically kill squadron lists overnight. It would be a scorched earth response to a narrow problem. Imagine trying to get normal squadrons in the same zip code as a pair of ships with triple flak in close formation.
That's why I want an AA Flotilla. Triple blue AA on a fragile platform. Strong against Squadrons, weak against ships. Oh, and a 0 or 1 Squadron value.
Area denial for squadrons, but with built-in weaknesses.
46 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:...no, no we won't. Because a ship's anti-squadron hits every squadron in arc an upgrade like that would add way too much value. If it was non-unique as well, you would basically kill squadron lists overnight. It would be a scorched earth response to a narrow problem. Imagine trying to get normal squadrons in the same zip code as a pair of ships with triple flak in close formation.
I'm going to agree with MasterShake here, adding a anti-squad die would have to be under very specific circumstances to not completely obliterate squadron lists, especially Imperial ones that really don't need something else hammering those poor three hull TIEs. High value, a rare upgrade, it will be very difficult. I'd rather see upgrades that are either AoE, like Cluster Bombs errata'd to be useful (give 'em Ten's "everything inside distance 1 is screwed" text), improve range to improve efficiency, or are Impetuous but allow entire arcs of fire. Those would probably be size-restricted and Modifications, but my double ISD list would really appreciate it since QLTs are kinda pathetic.