A large part of the issue, I think, with /x7 is that people have upskilled against them. People have had a LOT of practice blocking their best moves, because that set of moves is so much more limited than most ships'.

I can't wait to TIE/D up the competition next store championship with a few alternative TIE Defender builds that don't include X7's.

3 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

personally I love the D

quoted for posterity

5 minutes ago, Effenhoog said:

quoted for posterity

I can't read it without snickering either. That title needs a new tag. Lol

4 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

"Hopefully more people will try the D, personally I love the D"

You heard it here first folks.
He loves the D

****, was beaten to the punch bwaaa

For those unused to pre-X7 Defender flying, sure. X7 is great, sure, but I felt it was a bit of a crutch in flying.

3 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

The X7 fix was bought about so that pilots now have to think about their moves, rather than Hurr durr 3+ moves for a free evade. Why should you be rewarded for bad flying? People have shifted from X7's because they are no longer super easy mode. A good player will still do well with them, a potato player will struggle.

I am so over hearing about the X7 nerf that wasn't a nerf.

This is both factually incorrect and horribly condescending.

For one thing, x7 nerf... was a nerf. Nerf = weakening. The ship is objectively weaker now than it used to be. Denying it is ridiculous. You might believe that the nerf was justified and that it didn't affect the x7's power in a significant way - you're entitled to your opinion. But that doesn't mean x7 wasn't nerfed. It was.

Secondly, Worlds is by far the biggest and the most significant X-wing tournament. The very best and brightest players from all over the world show up to compete for the top prize. The players who make it to the top on such an event aren't exactly crybabies who won't fly something if it's not "easy mode" and who "want to be rewarded for bad flying". To the contrary, they'll use their considerable experience to find the very best lists and then take advantage of their immense talent and skills to fly them as well as humanly possible. There are very few (if any) coincidences when it comes to who does and who doesn't end up in top 16 at Worlds, let alone who wins the entire thing.

As things stand, none of those amazingly talented players decided that x7s give them a shot at winning. And if some of them did, they were apparently wrong because they didn't make it after all.

As such your statements suggest that:

- you either consider yourself a better player than the world's best and think that your judgment on the viability of x7s is better than theirs - in this case you're welcome to try and prove them wrong at the next large event

or

- you deny the objective fact that x7s failed to carry any imperials into top 16 - unlike last year, where a significant number of players in the top were playing them.

Whichever it is, you're probably wrong.

3 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

The X7 fix was bought about so that pilots now have to think about their moves, rather than Hurr durr 3+ moves for a free evade. Why should you be rewarded for bad flying? People have shifted from X7's because they are no longer super easy mode. A good player will still do well with them, a potato player will struggle.

I am so over hearing about the X7 nerf that wasn't a nerf.

I understand your thoughts, but I think you are confusing a logical thought process that leads to a supported conclusion, to a closing opinion that you back up with leading assumptions on generalized player abilities.

I flew an x7 to Top 32 (likely the only x7 in that bracket). I honestly did not notice the effects of the nerf at all despite the presence of Asajj/stresshog/bumpmasters. But I also had only one x7 in my list instead of two or three. I think the nerf hurts x7-centric lists in particular because those lists are heavily reliant on the title. Competitively you're going to start seeing more lists with just a single x7 to help spread out your lists' weaknesses, and I think that's actually fine. I'm happy to not see Palp Defenders anymore.

X7s are fine ships. They can be fun to fly, if they suit your play style. They won't be seen a lot in competitive play for the time being because unfortunately competitive play is focused on list/point efficiency as a priority over simple, good flying.

As they were, /x7s gave a huge benefit in exchange for sacrificing two upgrade slots and shaving points from your list total. Very, very efficient. Now they give only a moderate benefit, while still saving points and forcing you to decide if the occasional free action will serve better than whatever you might equip in one of the upgrade slots.

Basically, /x7 is no longer a no brainer, auto-include for defenders. It also offers slightly less guaranteed benefit. As such, it had fallen out of favor.

Fortunately, this game isn't about competitive, 100/6 lists only. /x7s can be and are awesome in many other formats.

In my opinion, fun gameplay trumps competitive viability.

In my mind, the problem wasn't the X7 per se, but the fact that the most efficient pure jouster was a 3/3 + evade token monster. That means that a 2/2 or 2/3 ship simply could not complete on pure efficiency. That's a problem for the health of the game, rather than with the ship itself.

7 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

In my mind, the problem wasn't the X7 per se, but the fact that the most efficient pure jouster was a 3/3 + evade token monster. That means that a 2/2 or 2/3 ship simply could not complete on pure efficiency. That's a problem for the health of the game, rather than with the ship itself.

Yes and no.

Yes, that such a super efficient 'base line' fighter could easily out perform pretty much any other 'base line' ship and warp the meta sure, I get that; agreed.

No, because 'base line' ships pretty much don't win World Championships for you; check the history. Also, in this instance, the Imperial faction has a very limited 'toolbox' for increasing efficiency of their fighters and highly mobile weapons platforms over their 'base line' stats to match or exceed the other factions 'toolbox' over their ship's 'base line' ships. Therefore, the X7 acted as a surrogate Regen (of sorts) or Mindlink (kinda thing) that allowed the ship to surpass its solid stat line with an auto-evade (when moving fast on a limited dial) and boost those average dice rolls. It almost forced a player's hands to select the X7 for high-level play much like the selections of: Biggs, Miranda, Sabine, Dengar, Mindlink, Jumpmasters. It's no different really.

17 hours ago, Shenannigan said:

Tie/d. Try it on vessery. My personal favorite is with tractor beam and ruthlessness. Ruthlessness triggers on both shots and after the tractor movement so it punishes the Biggs formation flying.

Took that to Austin regional's and made it to top 16. It has trouble against big ships, but otherwise its a blast!

3 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

I flew an x7 to Top 32 (likely the only x7 in that bracket). I honestly did not notice the effects of the nerf at all despite the presence of Asajj/stresshog/bumpmasters. But I also had only one x7 in my list instead of two or three. I think the nerf hurts x7-centric lists in particular because those lists are heavily reliant on the title. Competitively you're going to start seeing more lists with just a single x7 to help spread out your lists' weaknesses, and I think that's actually fine. I'm happy to not see Palp Defenders anymore.

Exactly! This mirrors my own thoughts after flying a list with a single x7 at Worlds.

7 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

Took that to Austin regional's and made it to top 16. It has trouble against big ships, but otherwise its a blast!

Been wanting to try Ruthless Vessery with Quickdraw, if I happen to damage by own ship, at least its a ship that can get another shot!

35 minutes ago, wurms said:

Been wanting to try Ruthless Vessery with Quickdraw, if I happen to damage by own ship, at least its a ship that can get another shot!

Ruthlessness on Quickdraw is really fun with Accuracy Corrector. Potentially you could trigger ruthlessness 4 times!

I haven't tried out Ruthless Vessery with him yet though.

Ryad with Twin Ion Engine and with some other EPT than PtL should still be a very viable ship. It can avoid being blocked by choosing between different green K-turns and with green banks it can shed stress quite well.

8 minutes ago, Sixter said:

Ryad with Twin Ion Engine and with some other EPT than PtL should still be a very viable ship. It can avoid being blocked by choosing between different green K-turns and with green banks it can shed stress quite well.

Personal preference for Predator as the PTL replacement myself to further reduce the effect stress has on her.

16 hours ago, Djaskim609 said:

Bull. Most x/7 haters were drama queens. I'm talking Anakin level whining. It's not like all people using x/7's were just running into everything. The meta was better for having something that wasn't crippled by stress.

Good players could counter x/7's. Potato players couldn't focus fire and struggled (and came here to cry about x/7's being OP).

I love the Defender, still do, but I think the latest FAQ changes have been the best so far. Possibly only Manaroo being dealt the harsh brush limiting her ability to range 1.

I must say I laughed out loud when you say the Meta was better off, it was so much better off that the Meta WAS /X7 Defenders. How boring as bat **** was that thankfully short timein the X Wing world.

The meta is clearly better now. But it could be better still. Every round of nerfs makes thing better but is still (bizarrely) resisted with incredible zeal.

1 hour ago, SOTL said:

The meta is clearly better now. But it could be better still. Every round of nerfs makes thing better but is still (bizarrely) resisted with incredible zeal.

I would like to point again to worlds 2017 vs world 2016 ;-)

18 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

I would like to point again to worlds 2017 vs world 2016 ;-)

Well, you can do what you like but I hope you understand that the Deadeye nerf that stirred the meta up wildly makes Worlds 2016 a very poor measuring stick.

I'd like to point (for the first time) to System Opens vs Worlds 2017.

This how the Tie D should be like

7 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

I love the Defender, still do, but I think the latest FAQ changes have been the best so far. Possibly only Manaroo being dealt the harsh brush limiting her ability to range 1.

I must say I laughed out loud when you say the Meta was better off, it was so much better off that the Meta WAS /X7 Defenders. How boring as bat **** was that thankfully short timein the X Wing world.

I said the meta was better off for having a ship not crippled by stress, and not that the meta as a whole was better. That's an important distinction. Jumpmasters are/were still OP; I'm not sure when the meta "WAS" x/7 defenders--that sounds like the hyperbole that is becoming typical in this forum.

Boring? Meh. I stopped playing defenders because I played them a lot after the much hyped release. Then I moved on. I wasn't bored; I had more ships to play, and I'll play defenders again. The mere presence of pre-nerf x/7 made the meta horrifically boring, yet you're happy now that the meta is jumps, protectorates, biggs, and miranda, with the odd stresshog or stressmule? Yeah, that's super reasonable.

On 2017-05-08 at 10:02 PM, Hotziggety said:

I used to think that x7 Defenders were perfectly fine to keep fielding after the FAQ but have heard over the past day that they won't be good to fly for the time being given how world's went. I am pretty new to the game and so don't fully understand why this would be, or if it's just false. Could someone explain. Thanks.

1st problem: To get their free evade, X7 defenders must move at a minimum of speed 3. If they want to go straight, it must be at speed 3-4 or 5. If they want to turn, they need to do it at speed 3. This makes them extremely predictable and easy to block or arc dodge. They would compensate for that by getting a free evade even when bumping.

2nd problem: Because they are predictable, it is easy for your opponentt to apply stress with things like stressbot, Asajj or even tactician. X7s rely on their white K turn when flying. It is without a doubt their most important tool. That tool is gone when under stress (except for Ryad). Adding the lost evade on top of that makes them much more sensitive to the effect than most ship.

We know how a defender perform without that free evade. Its lost way too easily now. IMO the FAQ would have been fine if they just made them loose the evade upon overlaping obstacle.