5 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:VCX or Falcon, without hera, sure. The infinite stop shenanigams make up for the lack of K turn if you hug a table edge.
Yeah, but it's not exactly "Brute Force" then is it? I just don't understand the design restrictions placed on Imp large base ships I guess; maneuverability and weapons options seem very restrictive in comparison to their military and freighter counterparts.
4 hours ago, Biophysical said:An idea that's been tumbling around in my head for almost 6 months is to get Kagi in a list. By sucking up Target Locks, he protects the rest of your squad from an alpha strike. It's a way to get other ships into position, but he's pricey in his own right, so I've never built a squad that feels worth it.
I built a list a while back (probably a year+ ago) that I've only played a couple times using Kagi, Carnor and Zertik. Carnor shuts down focus/evade, zertik shuts down the range 1 bonus, and kagi forces them to take any Target Locks on him.
48 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:I built a list a while back (probably a year+ ago) that I've only played a couple times using Kagi, Carnor and Zertik. Carnor shuts down focus/evade, zertik shuts down the range 1 bonus, and kagi forces them to take any Target Locks on him.
Okay, what about this?
Targeting Computer Fel (34 points)
Hull Upgrade Jax (34 points)
Kagi with Inspiring Recruit (28)
You've got 4 points left for Kagi upgrades and initiative. You could do Reinforced Defectors, you could take a cannon, Kallus, FCS. There's options.
52 minutes ago, Biophysical said:Okay, what about this?
Targeting Computer Fel (34 points)
Hull Upgrade Jax (34 points)
Kagi with Inspiring Recruit (28)
You've got 4 points left for Kagi upgrades and initiative. You could do Reinforced Defectors, you could take a cannon, Kallus, FCS. There's options.
EU, maybe? Or are you thinking you'll die before getting to actually turn around? Isard? Maybe even Rebel Captive since they'll be TLing you anyhow, make them stressed if they attack you, ordnance or otherwise
5 minutes ago, piznit said:EU, maybe? Or are you thinking you'll die before getting to actually turn around? Isard? Maybe even Rebel Captive since they'll be TLing you anyhow, make them stressed if they attack you, ordnance or otherwise
I totally forgot Rebel Captive. That's delightful.
5 hours ago, Embir82 said:I think you misunderstood what a point of title card is. More often than not it is not an optional element of upgrade of the ship but instead you should treat it like a special rule of the ship. So in a way title cost is already factored in cost of the ship. Because lets face it, without title cards where would you put additional rules of the ship? It is elegant and intuitive solution.
Also, I love this thread - instead of another "NERF DAT" whining fest we get actually meaty thread, encouraging brainstorming.
True but as you pointed out the title for the Wave 9 ships are not an option. I like my ships to be ships on base design first. Again my preference. I know why the titles were made, it is a shame that they didn't put that in with the lambda shuttle but again X-wing was still early and lambda had to be simpler since Accretion wasn't much of an issue back in Wave 3. Speaking of Lambda
5 minutes ago, Biophysical said:I totally forgot Rebel Captive. That's delightful.
Rebel Captive is a counter to high pilot skill ships. In the early game it forces the higher pilot skill to either take the stress or ignore the ship and let lower pilot skill do the heavy work. Towards the end game where it is often the higher skill left there is no option. The high skill pilot is getting stressed.
Speaking of Aces, on your list I think you might be straying back to old Aces territory. I know it is hard not to do such a thing because that is the traditional Imperial mindset but as mention before that is not working in this meta. You got your typical 2 interceptor shuttle list on a 3 ship list (4 if shuttle is counted as 2 but again a very small 4 ship list in terms of durability). You should trim the upgrades and put some more meat into it. If you want interceptors, bring more than 2 but have room for at least a large ship or make it at a minimum a 5 ship list. As I say before check your final salvo volley. If it is less than 10 dice it is probably not enough ships.
My original version had palp on kagi, which might still not be terrible, but another update idea:
Range 1 Denial (99)
Carnor Jax (34) - TIE Interceptor
Push The Limit (3), Royal Guard TIE (0), Autothrusters (2), Hull Upgrade (3)
Zertik Strom (28) - TIE Advanced
Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x1 (0), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)
Captain Kagi (37) - Lambda-Class Shuttle
Sensor Jammer (4), Tractor Beam (1), Rebel Captive (3), Systems Officer (2)
2 hours ago, VanderLegion said:My original version had palp on kagi, which might still not be terrible, but another update idea:
Range 1 Denial (99)
Carnor Jax (34) - TIE Interceptor
Push The Limit (3), Royal Guard TIE (0), Autothrusters (2), Hull Upgrade (3)Zertik Strom (28) - TIE Advanced
Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x1 (0), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)Captain Kagi (37) - Lambda-Class Shuttle
Sensor Jammer (4), Tractor Beam (1), Rebel Captive (3), Systems Officer (2)
Better but still similar to 2 aces and a shuttle. Remember we got to re-do the Imperial builds from the ground up, not retweak the successful lists of Imperial past. If we are going to take a previous list and modernize it Wave 5 seems like the best place to search as it shares a lot of similarities with today's meta.
Edited by Marinealver3 minutes ago, Marinealver said:Better but still similar to 2 aces and a shuttle. Remember we got to re-do the Imperial builds from the ground up, not retweak the successful lists of Imperial past. If we are going to take a previous list and modernize it Wave 5 seems like the best place to search as it shares a lot of similarities with today's meta.
Well, like I said earlier, I built this list a long time ago, back when palp aces were actually good :P. This would suffer the same issue against bombs as normal palp aces. I've already posted my current 2 SF + PS list
Edited by VanderLegionOn 5/8/2017 at 8:50 PM, Marinealver said:Too bad Imperial Aces didn't come with any Alpha squadron pilots. I have 6 TIE Interceptor models but only 2 Alpha squadrons. (Proxy in Avengers for Alphas I guess).
Trick your friends into giving you their Fel's Wrath cardboard. Alpha's on the other side.
On 5/8/2017 at 9:02 PM, Arkanta974 said:4x Zeta specialist with FCS (Fire Control System) work too.
Too bad Zetas are 23 points. You can't do 4 Zetas and an Academy.
What if TIE/SF were -2 points and the title was 2 points? Oh well again it is too late to change that. But again if you could take 4 Zeta Specs without title and and academy pilot would that have been broken? Probably should be for another post.
Edited by MarinealverIf we are talking about imp damage can I speak of the following,,,,
Drunken Grandfather (100)
Kylo Ren (50) - Upsilon-class Shuttle
Swarm Leader (3), Agent Kallus (2), Darth Vader (3), Weapons Guidance (2), Pattern Analyzer (2), Kylo Ren's Shuttle (2), Anti-Pursuit Lasers (2)
Black Squadron Pilot (14) - TIE Fighter with apt
Black Squadron Pilot (14) - TIE Fighter wit apt
"Pure Sabacc" (22) - TIE Striker
I can throw 7 dice with my Up (changing 2 dice) do an extra 1 damage with Vader and if I block that's 9 damage in one turn. Paired with pure for 5 dice at range 1 and 6 dice from the tie fighters.
In short I can throw 18 dice and get 2 extra damage in a turn.
You can also drop the anti lasers for crack shot on the ties.
Edited by CubanboyWhat about Stridan Walk The Dogs?
TIE Bomber: Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
TIE Bomber: Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
TIE Bomber: Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Upsilon-class Shuttle: · Major Stridan (32)
Fire Control System (2)
Operations Specialist (3)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
· Kylo Ren's Shuttle (2)
-- TOTAL ------- 100/100p. --
Another option if team work isn't your thing is to swap the Major to this guy
Upsilon-class Shuttle: Starkiller Base Pilot (30)
Fire Control System (2)
Gunner (5)
· Darth Vader (3)
-- TOTAL ------- 40/100p. --
On 5/8/2017 at 7:03 PM, Marinealver said:So 3 Zeta Specialist and 2 Epsilons?
Well that is 5 ships, average firepower with titles is 2.6 which is rounded to 3. Final salvo is 13 firepower. Might be brute force, but I am not sure it is a match for the BBBBZ lists of the Rebels. Any takes?
Can drop LWF or FCS on one of the Zeta Specialists to upgrade the Epsilons to Zetas and have PS3 to the PS2 of BBBBZ. The Specialists are more or less B-Wings on crack with this setup and the Zeta FOs are going to be a nightmare to deal with due to repositioning/PS kills.
3 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:Can drop LWF or FCS on one of the Zeta Specialists to upgrade the Epsilons to Zetas and have PS3 to the PS2 of BBBBZ. The Specialists are more or less B-Wings on crack with this setup and the Zeta FOs are going to be a nightmare to deal with due to repositioning/PS kills.
Not quite, The reason why I was looking at BBBBZ list is that it is a 5 ship list. The 23 point cost of Zeta Specalist keeps that from happening. If it were 22 points (just like a B-wing) and the title was 1 point you could have forgone the titles and had the 4/sf+Acd list. However I am not trying to go up against a BBBBZ list as much as I am trying to get a strong gunline with some hit points to chew through. However it wouldn't be like the BBBBZ list without the title anyways.
Now 3 SFs and an FO, I guess final salvo would be 11 (or at least the gauge would be if titles don't contribute to final salvo). Now 3 Zeta specalists w/ LWF + FCS and a Zeta Squadron is only 97 points so you still have some room to play around.
10 minutes ago, Marinealver said:Not quite, The reason why I was looking at BBBBZ list is that it is a 5 ship list. The 23 point cost of Zeta Specalist keeps that from happening. If it were 22 points (just like a B-wing) and the title was 1 point you could have forgone the titles and had the 4/sf+Acd list. However I am not trying to go up against a BBBBZ list as much as I am trying to get a strong gunline with some hit points to chew through. However it wouldn't be like the BBBBZ list without the title anyways.
Now 3 SFs and an FO, I guess final salvo would be 11 (or at least the gauge would be if titles don't contribute to final salvo). Now 3 Zeta specalists w/ LWF + FCS and a Zeta Squadron is only 97 points so you still have some room to play around.
I'd be fairly tempted to forego the LWF and just do 4xZeta with FCS.
Edited by RampancyTWHere's a fun one...
Dormitz and three strikers with swarm leader...
So...set em up in the middle...and on turn ONE your throwing somewhere between 12-16 dice at something.
With the ailerons this little freaks will get there and eradicate.
The problem comes after that...but you'll have the upsilon and probably most of one striker left to deal with whatever crawls out of the smoke.
Played one game where assaj Ventress never saw round two.
7 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:Played one game where assaj Ventress never saw round two.
Yeah I have seen the swarm leader alpha strike take down an Upsilon in a single salvo. My opponent rolled 7 hits and 4 crits. Up went in a cloud of smoke.
But I am not looking for a one shot wonder I am looking for a grinder/steamroller. I am thinking consistent damage plus ability to take losses without losing too much firepower. Problem with a lot of those 3 ship ace or shuttle 2 ace list is that one ship goes down you lose a third or even half your firepower. Imperials need to use the storm-trooper method of simply sending in guys that can send enough firepower regardless of casualties, and not the ones that lose battles to sticks and stones.
7 minutes ago, Marinealver said:But I am not looking for a one shot wonder I am looking for a grinder/steamroller. I am thinking consistent damage plus ability to take losses without losing too much firepower. Problem with a lot of those 3 ship ace or shuttle 2 ace list is that one ship goes down you lose a third or even half your firepower. Imperials need to use the storm-trooper method of simply sending in guys that can send enough firepower regardless of casualties, and not the ones that lose battles to sticks and stones.
That's why I like the Upsilon with Vader crew. It's a very hard ship for your opponent to ignore, especially with Quickdraw as one of the aces. I flank with the other ace (typically Sabacc or Omega Leader) to conserve them.
6 hours ago, Gazakazan said:What about Stridan Walk The Dogs?
TIE Bomber: Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
TIE Bomber: Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
TIE Bomber: Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Upsilon-class Shuttle: · Major Stridan (32)
Fire Control System (2)
Operations Specialist (3)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
· Kylo Ren's Shuttle (2)
-- TOTAL ------- 100/100p. --
There's some interesting stuff going on here. I'd be inclined to swap the Operations Specialist, Inspiring Recruit, and FCS for Hux and a Baffle, as that way you can make sure all of your Bombers get to use their rockets. Another option would be dropping the title and Baffle for Advanced Sensors to allow you to Hux, stress, then clear stress off a green and not worry about bumps.
Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Major Stridan (32)
Electronic Baffle (1)
General Hux (5)
Kylo Ren's Shuttle (2)
Total: 100
How about this? I've been thinking about running this for a while but don't have 3 Punishers
Swarm - Punisher Alpha (744) (100)
"Redline" (36) - TIE Punisher
Accuracy Corrector (3), Extra Munitions (2), Cluster Missiles (4), Guidance Chips (0)
Black Eight Sq. Pilot (32) - TIE Punisher
Accuracy Corrector (3), Extra Munitions (2), Cluster Missiles (4), Guidance Chips (0)
Black Eight Sq. Pilot (32) - TIE Punisher
Accuracy Corrector (3), Extra Munitions (2), Cluster Missiles (4), Guidance Chips (0)
What do you think about double SF+Defender?
Quickdraw - VI, Title, LW, FCS
Backdraft - VI, Title, LW, FCS
Vessery - VI (or Adapt./ScoreToSettle+MK2), x7
Quite alot of beef, lots of firepower, high PS, TLT might be a problem, bombs are not.
1 hour ago, MrMaggles said:How about this? I've been thinking about running this for a while but don't have 3 Punishers
Swarm - Punisher Alpha (744) (100)
"Redline" (36) - TIE Punisher
Accuracy Corrector (3), Extra Munitions (2), Cluster Missiles (4), Guidance Chips (0)Black Eight Sq. Pilot (32) - TIE Punisher
Accuracy Corrector (3), Extra Munitions (2), Cluster Missiles (4), Guidance Chips (0)Black Eight Sq. Pilot (32) - TIE Punisher
Accuracy Corrector (3), Extra Munitions (2), Cluster Missiles (4), Guidance Chips (0)
I don't think accuracy corrector and chips work together... How about this?
| Cutlass Squadron Pilot — TIE Punisher | 21 |
| Unguided Rockets | 2 |
| Lightweight Frame | 2 |
| Ship Total: 25 | |
| Cutlass Squadron Pilot — TIE Punisher | 21 |
| Unguided Rockets | 2 |
| Lightweight Frame | 2 |
| Ship Total: 25 | |
| Zeta Specialist — TIE/sf Fighter | 23 |
| Lightweight Frame | 2 |
| Special Ops Training | 0 |
| Ship Total: 25 | |
| Zeta Specialist — TIE/sf Fighter | 23 |
| Lightweight Frame | 2 |
| Special Ops Training | 0 |
|
Ship Total: 25 |
|
1 hour ago, Gazakazan said:I don't think accuracy corrector and chips work together... How about this?
Cutlass Squadron Pilot — TIE Punisher 21 Unguided Rockets 2 Lightweight Frame 2 Ship Total: 25 Cutlass Squadron Pilot — TIE Punisher 21 Unguided Rockets 2 Lightweight Frame 2 Ship Total: 25 Zeta Specialist — TIE/sf Fighter 23 Lightweight Frame 2 Special Ops Training 0 Ship Total: 25 Zeta Specialist — TIE/sf Fighter 23 Lightweight Frame 2 Special Ops Training 0 Ship Total: 25
They don't work together but they do compliment each other, on that one attack out of the two you do if you roll two natural hits out of three you can use the chips to make it three hits...
only use the corrector if you roll less than two hits...
this combo give a minimum of 12 damage dice per salvo and a max if your lucky of 18
thats most of a Decamator or Ghost in one shot, and if your lucky even a complete kill...
Edited by MrMaggles