8 minutes ago, theninthguardian said:

Hoo boy. Thanks for this post, then. 'Cause me and all the other Old5rers are probably going to mix that up constantly since 'honorable' used to be the default status and it's not super explicit in what's been previewed so far. I hope that make that clearer going forward.

Ah, I see the card you're referencing now. Because of course, it wouldn't be a Fantasy Flight game w/o a million little fiddly bits to keep track of. I'm not looking forward to how messy the table are going to get. Hopefully that'll be kept under control by the fate system and characters leaving play to 'meet their destiny' or whatever.

So now my question for FFG is, does 'honoring' a dishonorable character restore them to neutral status or does it honor them?

Yeah, I think that's part of why these things keep cropping up. We pieced it together from other things that were said about the honored/dishonored status, but I wouldn't have come in expecting it to work differently than it used to.

For the last part, we just don't have any info yet.

Remember that not everyone getting the information used English as their primary language. Not to mention that the core contents reveal was lifted from a spanish distributer leak and was translated......so mistakes are going to happen.

Once we have everything the players will be expected to commit seppuku when a mistake is made. L5R is serious business folks.

Might as well add the one I do far too often.

Hantie/Hentai - These two are way too similar for me and I absolutely suck with Asian names and words. I've lost count of how many times I've accidentally used the wrong word L5R.

I wouldn't be surprised if I am butchering 90% of all the names in the game.

3 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Remember that not everyone getting the information used English as their primary language. Not to mention that the core contents reveal was lifted from a spanish distributer leak and was translated......so mistakes are going to happen.

Once we have everything the players will be expected to commit seppuku when a mistake is made. L5R is serious business folks.

I hope that it didn't come across that I was language shaming anyone, that certainly wasn't my intent. Mostly it's come from old school players projecting prior knowledge from the old game onto the new (myself included). This came about when I started combing through the articles to verify something, and found it conspicuously missing. It turned out to be a false presupposition.

I'm trying to be careful not to add anything that isn't officially posted in an article which could be cited as a source. I'm also strictly trying to highlight mistakes in the rules, not pronunciation or anything else.

No matter who is doing it, the more we spread misinformation the worse it gets. Stuff like this helps everyone get on the same page.

6 hours ago, Kiseki said:

Oh, I mistook your Mon. Apologies!

It's not easy being green... T_T

(I guess the Dragon will find that out soon enough!)

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

It's not easy being green... T_T

(I guess the Dragon will find that out soon enough!)

I'm still convinced that once a character enters the honored or dishonored state, they will only exist in those states.

1 hour ago, Isawa Kioshi said:

I'm still convinced that once a character enters the honored or dishonored state, they will only exist in those states.

I'm not. You don't have to be particularly honorable or particularly dishonorable. You can hang in between.

3 minutes ago, Ser Nakata said:

I'm not. You don't have to be particularly honorable or particularly dishonorable. You can hang in between.

You can hang. Exactly.

What I think y'all are missing in the point is when you first play the character, it is in a neutral state, neither honored or dishonored. Once they enter one of those States, honored or dishonored, they can only be in an honored or dishonored state.

Back on topic:

Another mistake I have seen a bunch of places: The "Province Strength Boost" on your stronghold only applies to the Province containing the stronghold. It is NOT a blanket bonus across all of your Provinces.

1 hour ago, HidaYama said:

What I think y'all are missing in the point is when you first play the character, it is in a neutral state, neither honored or dishonored. Once they enter one of those States, honored or dishonored, they can only be in an honored or dishonored state.

I'd really like to see some source for that, because I think there will be three states (Honored, Neutral, Dishonored) and if characters enter play in the neutral state, I see no reason why they could not go back to that state.

There have been no cards revealed stating a character moves to the neutral state, but cards stating they are moved to the honored or dishonored states. In the absence of cards moving them to the neutral state, once they enter an honored or dishonored state they cannot return to the neutral state.

11 minutes ago, HidaYama said:

There have been no cards revealed stating a character moves to the neutral state, but cards stating they are moved to the honored or dishonored states. In the absence of cards moving them to the neutral state, once they enter an honored or dishonored state they cannot return to the neutral state.

This makes thematic sense, as well. If you're an especially honorable person, enough to be considered "Honored," and you do something that would be so bad you would be "Dishonored," there's no middle ground.

"Akodo Sumgai just ate a baby!"

"Yeah, but he also saved that village that one time, so let's call it a wash?"

Nope.

30 minutes ago, HidaYama said:

There have been no cards revealed stating a character moves to the neutral state, but cards stating they are moved to the honored or dishonored states. In the absence of cards moving them to the neutral state, once they enter an honored or dishonored state they cannot return to the neutral state.

That's not a valid source.

We can argue all you want. Regarding the rule, unless it's stated clearly in one of the articles from FFG, we can't be 100% sure.

I think this thread should keep to what's been confirmed or clearly stated in FFG's publications. You can't just tell people are wrong to assume there's no reverting to the neutral state without citing a source.

1 minute ago, Ser Nakata said:

That's not a valid source.

We can argue all you want. Regarding the rule, unless it's stated clearly in one of the articles from FFG, we can't be 100% sure.

I think this thread should keep to what's been confirmed or clearly stated in FFG's publications. You can't just tell people are wrong to assume there's no reverting to the neutral state without citing a source.

how about every publication FFG has put out about L5R. There is not a single card that does what you are suggesting.

It is funny about you say you are so big on sources, but have declined to cite a single source in any of your postings throughout this entire topic.

When I've seen the cards that say "honor a character", my assumption has been that it means "give that character a +1 along the honor track that goes -1, 0, +1". But in the Conflicts of Rokugan article, the Fire ring description reads, "Choose a character in play and honor or dishonor that character. (Honoring a character adds their glory value to their skills and causes their owner to gain honor when that character leaves play, while dishonoring a character subtracts their glory from their skills and causes their owner to lose honor when that character leaves play.)" Which sounds to me like it's a straight "Take the character from whatever status he/she is, whether that's 0 or -1, and go directly to the +1 status".

It would make more sense to me to go from dishonored to "neutral", and to have to take a second "honoring" step to get to the honored state, but I have to admit that the articles we've seen so far seem to be implying the "go directly to Honored / Dishonored, do not pass Go Neutral" rule rather than the one I originally thought would apply.

20 minutes ago, HidaYama said:

how about every publication FFG has put out about L5R. There is not a single card that does what you are suggesting.

It is funny about you say you are so big on sources, but have declined to cite a single source in any of your postings throughout this entire topic.

While I suspect that you're right, this is technically an argument from silence and not really good proof. I don't know that people were necessarily saying you're wrong; just that we can't be dogmatic one way or the other without seeing all the cards or an official ruling from FFG.

I could just as easily say, "Tsuruchi will never be in the game. Go ahead! Show me even a single card that references Tsuruchi if you want to prove me wrong!" Of course, to insist that Tsuruchi will be in the game for certain, in the absence of any official statement or card preview, would be incorrect, but to insist that he will never be in the game based on the lack of evidence is just as incorrect.

26 minutes ago, HidaYama said:

how about every publication FFG has put out about L5R. There is not a single card that does what you are suggesting.

It is funny about you say you are so big on sources, but have declined to cite a single source in any of your postings throughout this entire topic.

Well, the difference is I said I think there will be three states whereas you affirm once you've been honored or dishonored, you cannot go back to the neutral state.

I don't need to cite source for my opinion or guesses, but if you affirm something is true, you'd better cite sources.

1 minute ago, Ser Nakata said:

Well, the difference is I said I think there will be three states whereas you affirm once you've been honored or dishonored, you cannot go back to the neutral state.

I don't need to cite source for my opinion or guesses, but if you affirm something is true, you'd better cite sources.

4 hours ago, Ser Nakata said:

I'm not. You don't have to be particularly honorable or particularly dishonorable. You can hang in between.

This is an affirmation statement BY YOU with no sources cited. That is called a hypocrite. I am fine with not citing sources in your statement, but you being so hard on for citing sources and violate it your self is what i don't like.

Ok, there was a misunderstanding. My comment you quoted was not referring to actual rules, but to general principle. Hence my use of "particularly". I was thinking about the lore when I typed that comment.

Otherwise, I would have expressed myself along the lines of "In this article (link provided), it's stated there if a character is honored and a card or ring effect dishonors it, it reverts to neutral state. And if it's dishonored and a card or ring effect honors it, it goes back to the neutral state."

See the difference? I'm sorry if my post looked like an affirmation about the rules, that was not my intent.

I don't think we have enough information to know whether an honor/dishonor can reset to neutral - that's the sort of thing that would likely be in a rulebook, not the cards, so all we can do right now is speculate. The only mistake right now is to be certain.

I see many people making assumptions about how influence is going to work, but we really haven't been told anything there either so being certain about that is also a mistake.

For me, having a "neutral" state to return to once a character is honored/dishonored doesn't make sense. Both from a rules perspective and from a fluff one.

Having to hit a character with two separate instances of honored/dishonored once they reach one of two states feels way off, especially if the game length average is 3-6 rounds.

While FFG can of course do whatever they want with the fluff, it doesn't really make sense to have an honorable person who commits a dishonorable act and NOT become dishonorable.

This is why I think there won't be a neutral state to return to once a character becomes honored or dishonored.