3 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

You're absolutely right I wouldn't call them pathetic to their face, I don't even know them. Would I tell them that the FAQ was pathetic and possibly the worst decision ever made in the history of this game (after creation of JM5K)? Absolutely. Would I tell them that the balance state of the game is currently pathetic? Yes. When I f*** up at my job, I get yelled at, that's how it works. They can man up and realize that they made a big mistake and seriously harmed this game with the FAQ. They're big boys, they can handle it.

Do you ever get yelled at by people who just don't get what it is you're doing? I think it'd be kind of like that.

11 minutes ago, asters89 said:

So please tell us, what would you say to him?

Would you tell him your 13 year old brother knows more about x-wing than him? Would you ask him whether he is a real developer for x-wing or whether he even understands the game? Would you tell him that you constantly correct his commentary? (for the benefit of whom we may ask - as presumably you didn't have much in the way of an audience).

If you were to say anything of those things to him, I'm happy to let the point stand.

The beautify of a twitch stream is that the commenters have the same audience as the streamer, meaning he had exactly the same audience as Mr. Game Designer.
And yeah, even last worlds they got corrected a lot on stream, I can only imagine that it got worse, now that those X-Wing designers are iirc working on different projects on top.

2 minutes ago, Scopes said:

Yah, but do you really agree that Sabine has pushed interceptors out, or is it that no one has taken the time to actually try to adjust an interceptors "playstyle"(for lack of a better word) to bombs?

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: I fly Miranda/Sabine. A lot. Focus Miranda down and she dies very quickly. That isn't sometimes easy, but that's te best way to kill her, at least in the games I play and she is taken off the board.

Don't get behind her, and don't get baited into chasing her. I love it when players chase me. Makes my job relatively easy unless I'm at low HP.

Anyhoo, just my $0.02.

1. Most rebel lists pair Miranda with Biggs these days. Good luck "focusing her down".

2. The only way to "adapt" to bombs with Interceptors is to never be in a position where you might get bombed the next turn. Considering the mobility of AdvSLAM it usually means you can't be anywhere in the front hemisphere of the K-wing within R3 (if you are, K-wing can bomb you 90% of the time). So you need to be in the rear of the K-wing but not too close, because you might get into one of the bombs dropped before the maneuver reveal. And you need to get in that rear without getting bombed on the way. In reality that simply isn't feasible unless your skill level is way higher than your opponent's. Assuming that's gonna be the case doesn't sound like a very solid strategy of winning a large tournament (or even a small one for that matter).

1 minute ago, SEApocalypse said:

The beautify of a twitch stream is that the commenters have the same audience as the streamer, meaning he had exactly the same audience as Mr. Game Designer.

Ya know.. I don't have a Twitch login, so I was talking to my spreadsheets and 10-month old (she missed the final match, though, as her bedtime is 8p EST)

3 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

In light of this "challenge" I would say, "Hey Alex - do you get many games in or are you more administrative/PR for X-Wing now? I find your commentary lacking any real substance. By the way, your number one fanboy, @asters89 want you to look at him like you look at Matt Holland"

Suffice?

Not particularly as it goes quite a long way short of the accusations you were spouting about him on a forum.

In any case you may not have realised that in my original post, I agreed with the sentiment about jumpmasters. I just don't see the need to abuse personally abuse someone about it on the internet (and anyone who questions you doing it).

1 minute ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Do you ever get yelled at by people who just don't get what it is you're doing? I think it'd be kind of like that.

What's not to get? The FAQ wiped Imps out of the competitive game, and that's a fact. If that was their goal, then they decided consciously to remove Imps from the game, alienating Imp players and anyone concerned with faction balance. If that wasn't their goal they're borderline incompetent and lack some basic game design skills, or at least an understanding of proper play-testing. Either way the FAQ is a negative, and seriously hurt this game in the long-term. Sometimes the truth hurts- it doesn't help anyone to sugar-coat reality.

6 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

People have. Still Imperial lists under preform. Do you really think you are the only one to think about this? That other players haven't spent time and energy trying to find Imperial lists that can preform in this current meta? Three of my closest friends (also some of the best players I know) have been knocking their heads against a wall trying to get good Imperial lists together. The do pretty good at the local scene, but not well enough yet to indicate they can go higher. And people went to Worlds with Imperial lists. They tried. But still nothing beyond the top 16. That's not a "poor baby, your toy broke" problem. That's a lack options for Imps in the current meta.

Well give it a year and all imps can do tlt spamming. So you saying that we should go pre nerf times with X7 and Palp because they are the only thing that worked for this faction?

I'm glad that I am staying mostly with casual games, more fun and none of these problems, occasional tournaments with fun squads, I don't really care if I win or not, I rather have fun and it keeps me happier. Fraction of the players are playing competitive level and most of the players suffer from the nerfs that they don't agree or need.

16 minutes ago, Fuzzywookie said:

. Most people I play with at my flgs hate it.

Then why do you keep playing it?

11 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Agreed.
JM5k's and TLTs have done more to push out Acewing than Sabine.

Err... no they didn't m8.

Acewings were fine during the apex of the Thug Life craziness precisely because they could boost into the R1 dead zone and shrug off most of the shots with autothrusters. They were also the only archetype to contest the hegemony of the u-boats roughly a year ago. Unlike most of the other archetypes (Thug Life and rebel regen especially), they could control range and arcs to avoid eating more than 1 torpedo per turn per ship. With token stacking and/or palp they could shrug off the damage and then just use autothrusters to prevent getting hit by primaries. I recall last summer every single tournament was won by either the u-boats or the palp aces (Soontir + Carnor to block Deadeye usually). Some JM5K players used specialized bumpmasters with feedback array, intel agent and anti-pursuit lasers instead of torpedoes specifically to get a shot at beating aces.

It was only after the u-boat nerf that we saw massive rise of bomber K-wings and Interceptors got displaced by defenders almost overnight.

3 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

What's not to get? The FAQ wiped Imps out of the competitive game, and that's a fact. If that was their goal, then they decided consciously to remove Imps from the game, alienating Imp players and anyone concerned with faction balance. If that wasn't their goal they're borderline incompetent and lack some basic game design skills, or at least an understanding of proper play-testing. Either way the FAQ is a negative, and seriously hurt this game in the long-term. Sometimes the truth hurts- it doesn't help anyone to sugar-coat reality.

I heard they actually did this specifically to hurt your feewings. Not the empire.

4 minutes ago, asters89 said:

Not particularly as it goes quite a long way short of the accusations you were spouting about him on a forum.

In any case you may not have realised that in my original post, I agreed with the sentiment about jumpmasters. I just don't see the need to abuse personally abuse someone about it on the internet (and anyone who questions you doing it).

Well, it's Alex Davy's (proportional) fault for your displeasure with the JM5k - but no one say anything to him or about it. May offend someone.

6 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

1. Most rebel lists pair Miranda with Biggs these days. Good luck "focusing her down".

2. The only way to "adapt" to bombs with Interceptors is to never be in a position where you might get bombed the next turn. Considering the mobility of AdvSLAM it usually means you can't be anywhere in the front hemisphere of the K-wing within R3 (if you are, K-wing can bomb you 90% of the time). So you need to be in the rear of the K-wing but not too close, because you might get into one of the bombs dropped before the maneuver reveal. And you need to get in that rear without getting bombed on the way. In reality that simply isn't feasible unless your skill level is way higher than your opponent's. Assuming that's gonna be the case doesn't sound like a very solid strategy of winning a large tournament (or even a small one for that matter).

I understand the issue with bombs aces have, but don't scum aces have the same issues? Nand seemed to figure out just how to deal with them, and surprise, it was with bombs and a turret that is strong against aggressive aces. Yet, they were still everywhere, and bombing K's, outside of Nand's Miranda, didn't seem to do enough to disrupt them at worlds this year.

Which brings me back to my thought that the Jumpmaster and mindlink are the issue more than Imperials sucking is the issue. Imperial aces basically have to go all in as aces because they don't have a silly, hyper efficient large base filler ship that can slot in and save every ship in the list 2 points with mindlink over PTL, give them semi-double stress and block resistance with mindlink, and give the list a ship that isn't going to melt to bombs while still being a force.

Maybe if we get to this point, FFG will realize that ADV Slam and Sabine are a major issue for aces to an extent they are an auto loss to any skilled player, but as FFG is, they have to take things one step at a time until they figure out the next underlying issue, which... I don't know. It's better than nothing at least.

28 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

1. Most rebel lists pair Miranda with Biggs these days. Good luck "focusing her down".

2. The only way to "adapt" to bombs with Interceptors is to never be in a position where you might get bombed the next turn. Considering the mobility of AdvSLAM it usually means you can't be anywhere in the front hemisphere of the K-wing within R3 (if you are, K-wing can bomb you 90% of the time). So you need to be in the rear of the K-wing but not too close, because you might get into one of the bombs dropped before the maneuver reveal. And you need to get in that rear without getting bombed on the way. In reality that simply isn't feasible unless your skill level is way higher than your opponent's. Assuming that's gonna be the case doesn't sound like a very solid strategy of winning a large tournament (or even a small one for that matter).

Fair enough wrt point 1. I actually have never flown against a Biggs list, as strange as that sounds. I do fly KWings alot, and unless you're careful, I would think that Biggs can't keep up with Miranda if she needs to go on a bombing run. Obstacle placement is huge here as well.

WRT point two, interesting analysis. I see what you are saying and I definitely don't disagree. I still think it's a challenge worth investing some time in, trying to figure it out. Again, obstacle placement is huge when playing K Wings.

4 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

Err... no they didn't m8.

Acewings were fine during the apex of the Thug Life craziness precisely because they could boost into the R1 dead zone and shrug off most of the shots with autothrusters. They were also the only archetype to contest the hegemony of the u-boats roughly a year ago. Unlike most of the other archetypes (Thug Life and rebel regen especially), they could control range and arcs to avoid eating more than 1 torpedo per turn per ship. With token stacking and/or palp they could shrug off the damage and then just use autothrusters to prevent getting hit by primaries. I recall last summer every single tournament was won by either the u-boats or the palp aces (Soontir + Carnor to block Deadeye usually). Some JM5K players used specialized bumpmasters with feedback array, intel agent and anti-pursuit lasers instead of torpedoes specifically to get a shot at beating aces.

It was only after the u-boat nerf that we saw massive rise of bomber K-wings and Interceptors got displaced by defenders almost overnight.

I'll cede that- it's TLTs that aren't doing Defenders any favors.

4 minutes ago, Zazaa said:

Well give it a year and all imps can do tlt spamming. So you saying that we should go pre nerf times with X7 and Palp because they are the only thing that worked for this faction?

I'm glad that I am staying mostly with casual games, more fun and none of these problems, occasional tournaments with fun squads, I don't really care if I win or not, I rather have fun and it keeps me happier. Fraction of the players are playing competitive level and most of the players suffer from the nerfs that they don't agree or need.

Not entirely (though that would at least get Imps back in fighting form). I understand why Palp and x7 was nerfed, I just think it went too far. And that is on top of the anti-Ace craze also going too far.

Your point about TLTs only adds to my argument. The Imps do not have the kind of tool box that Rebels and Scum have, and are suffering because of it. Yes, that is less noticeable at a more casual level, but saying that it is not an issue because of that level is a little ridiculous.

3 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Not entirely (though that would at least get Imps back in fighting form). I understand why Palp and x7 was nerfed, I just think it went too far. And that is on top of the anti-Ace craze also going too far.

Your point about TLTs only adds to my argument. The Imps do not have the kind of tool box that Rebels and Scum have, and are suffering because of it. Yes, that is less noticeable at a more casual level, but saying that it is not an issue because of that level is a little ridiculous.

I felt so angered at first time when Manaroo got nerfed, same thing with JM5K's deadeye nerf, but life goes on and new stuff coming up all the time. New cards add exponentially in the game and once that turret slot for example is opened up for Empire we are not going to know where it can lead to.

FFG probably realizes that most of the ? comes from casual players and they are most important crowd out there. They need to be very cautious about nerfing because it chews up the credibility of the development department if those changes don't work. I doubt that there will be another direct Palp nerf or X7, gotta live with it. I don't want to end up in stupid argument fight here for nothing.

So sorry if I came out strong! But I hate nerfs because it is always in the end development departments mistake and I would like to play the X-Wing without me 30 page FAQ of nerfs.

8 minutes ago, Zazaa said:

I felt so angered at first time when Manaroo got nerfed, same thing with JM5K's deadeye nerf, but life goes on and new stuff coming up all the time. New cards add exponentially in the game and once that turret slot for example is opened up for Empire we are not going to know where it can lead to.

FFG probably realizes that most of the ? comes from casual players and they are most important crowd out there. They need to be very cautious about nerfing because it chews up the credibility of the development department if those changes don't work. I doubt that there will be another direct Palp nerf or X7, gotta live with it. I don't want to end up in stupid argument fight here for nothing.

So sorry if I came out strong! But I hate nerfs because it is always in the end development departments mistake and I would like to play the X-Wing without me 30 page FAQ of nerfs.

And that's fair. I agree that nerfs are a tool to be used seldomly and with precision, as we are dealing with the results of it being used haphazardly.

36 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Well, it's Alex Davy's (proportional) fault for your displeasure with the JM5k - but no one say anything to him or about it. May offend someone.

There are actually a lot of good, publicly-known reasons this is wrong. They don't all work on all expansions. And the play-testing isn't done by them.

1 hour ago, BlodVargarna said:

People stopped playing Palp because easy mode is off on him. Now they're switching to JMK easy mode. Simples.

There is more truth to this than not.

I've been playing Armada a lot, lately - indeed, hadn't even touched X-Wing in something like 6-7 months. So I decided to run the old Palp + x7s for the recent Campaign Against Cancer tournament, as I was familiar enough with it, and was too far behind the meta to learn anything else.

40-player event, still went 4-2 for the day and ended up in 6th place. This is pretty **** good, given (again), I haven't touched the game in half a year. Heck, my first match of the day, I was forgetting how to set up the obstacles...

Palpatine and x7, even after the nerf, are just fine. They do not need to be de-nerfed.

The problem, to the extent there is one, is with Mindlink - both lists I lost to were using it, and they were my only losses for the day. It's simply EASILY more powerful than anything else for its point cost. A slight nerf to it (granting a free focus action instead of handing out tokens directly) is probably the best solution - like the x7 nerf.

13 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

There are actually a lot of good, publicly-known reasons this is wrong. They don't all work on all expansions. And the play-testing isn't done by them.

I'd be interested to be proven wrong and learn his true role in my favorite minis game. Any links?

1 hour ago, Lightrock said:

Err... no they didn't m8.

Acewings were fine during the apex of the Thug Life craziness precisely because they could boost into the R1 dead zone and shrug off most of the shots with autothrusters. They were also the only archetype to contest the hegemony of the u-boats roughly a year ago. Unlike most of the other archetypes (Thug Life and rebel regen especially), they could control range and arcs to avoid eating more than 1 torpedo per turn per ship. With token stacking and/or palp they could shrug off the damage and then just use autothrusters to prevent getting hit by primaries. I recall last summer every single tournament was won by either the u-boats or the palp aces (Soontir + Carnor to block Deadeye usually). Some JM5K players used specialized bumpmasters with feedback array, intel agent and anti-pursuit lasers instead of torpedoes specifically to get a shot at beating aces.

It was only after the u-boat nerf that we saw massive rise of bomber K-wings and Interceptors got displaced by defenders almost overnight.

One thing to note: Mindlink lists and Dengaroo and Defenders started to push out the Palp Aces before the major Torp Scout nerfs did remove them effectively from the meta. And the defenders started to be a big thing in europe already during the summer, basically right after the release, same for the mindlink lists right after the Fang Fighter release. So the Palp Aces actually stopped winning during the Summer already and iirc they actually did not win a single prime event, only a few minor ones.

And as mentioned, I am surprised that the defenders are gone as well, the x7 nerf does not seem to be that bad, especially tripple defenders should do still a rather ok job. But I guess for premier events "ok" does not cut it.

1 hour ago, Kdubb said:

But why are they not competitive? Is it because they are suddenly bad, or is it because with the existence of mindlink and jumpmasters in their current form, they are good ships that are simply the worse option compared to the atrociously efficient scum ones?

I'm gonna go with the latter.

I feel like slamming Sabine kwings do more to push out imps than jumpmasters or mindlink

1 hour ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Agreed.
JM5k's and TLTs have done more to push out Acewing than Sabine.

Tlt helps against defenders, palp aces could handle them a lot better with autothrusters. Ditto against the turrets on jumpmasters.

23 minutes ago, xanderf said:

There is more truth to this than not.

I've been playing Armada a lot, lately - indeed, hadn't even touched X-Wing in something like 6-7 months. So I decided to run the old Palp + x7s for the recent Campaign Against Cancer tournament, as I was familiar enough with it, and was too far behind the meta to learn anything else.

40-player event, still went 4-2 for the day and ended up in 6th place. This is pretty **** good, given (again), I haven't touched the game in half a year. Heck, my first match of the day, I was forgetting how to set up the obstacles...

Palpatine and x7, even after the nerf, are just fine. They do not need to be de-nerfed.

The problem, to the extent there is one, is with Mindlink - both lists I lost to were using it, and they were my only losses for the day. It's simply EASILY more powerful than anything else for its point cost. A slight nerf to it (granting a free focus action instead of handing out tokens directly) is probably the best solution - like the x7 nerf.

Making mindlink give a free action is much more than a slight nerf, and would probably kill the upgrade as a usable choice competitively as long as it still passes stress

2 hours ago, MalusCalibur said:

Yes. Palpatine and pre-nerf Defenders were not, nor were they ever, the only options the Empire has. It would just seem that, without such guarantees as those, most players prefer to stick to safer (Mindlink, for example) options for tournaments.

I think it's largely unimportant whether or not any of us think those nerfs were or were not justified - FFG are not going to roll them back (if they were going to they'd have done so by now), so you can either continue to lament those cards or you can find new lists. Not being tied to a 29pt brick should be seen as a plus, as should the decrease in 'anti-Defender' tech domination.

I saw plenty of people experimenting with new Imperial list archetypes at Worlds. Myself included. I saw some of the jankiest of Imperial jank on the table and I saw them do pretty well overall. However, none of them turned out to be top tier compared to the common Scum and Rebel archetypes.

3 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Making mindlink give a free action is much more than a slight nerf, and would probably kill the upgrade as a usable choice competitively as long as it still passes stress

Well, you could remove the stress aggregation to actually make the free action a valid choice. ;-)

2 hours ago, MalusCalibur said:

Yes. Palpatine and pre-nerf Defenders were not, nor were they ever, the only options the Empire has. It would just seem that, without such guarantees as those, most players prefer to stick to safer (Mindlink, for example) options for tournaments.

I think it's largely unimportant whether or not any of us think those nerfs were or were not justified - FFG are not going to roll them back (if they were going to they'd have done so by now), so you can either continue to lament those cards or you can find new lists. Not being tied to a 29pt brick should be seen as a plus, as should the decrease in 'anti-Defender' tech domination.

Dude, this is an insult. Are you saying that people who are Imperial flyers aren't trying to find other lists? I made my way to Deep Core by not flying Palp ONCE in the Vassal league. Not once.

It's this kind of insulting nonsensical forum commentary, especially from 'known' guys, that is going to turn this game into 40k, with all of those problems.