8 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

I didn't mean ships that were designed from the get-go without EPTs at all, like K-wings or Ghosts, but I didn't make that clear sry.

What I meant is that, for the overwhelming majority of ships in this game (that include a mix of EPT and no EPT pilots), the pilots with EPT see disproportionately more play than their no EPT counterparts in the same ships.

I think other factions have lots of non-EPT options. Jess was just released recently with no EPT. Braylen/Gunner has no EPT, Rex has no EPT. Thane has no EPT. Stresshog has no EPT. The TIE Aggressor non-EPT will not be DOA. x7 Deltas have no EPT. Oicunn and Kenkirk are still competitive non-EPT. Other factions can run non-ept ships. Non-ept scum ships might as well not exist as long as a 1pt EPT that supplies a focus to EVERYONE exists. They should just print Attanni Mindlink on the pilot card instead of EPT slot. FFG needs to make more non-EPT scum ships worth playing which would be a big fix they can do. A ship like Jess with no EPT could relinquish the pressure on Mindlink lists. An ability so good it cant be ignored. Sunny blounder was close, but it was on a scyk and we got Genesis Red and Inaldra with EPTs and awesome abiltiies, so Sunny unfortunately will be DOA.

I almost want the scurgg to be released with no-EPT ala Kwing/Punisher just to see what scum players do. That would be interesting.

3 hours ago, Jarval said:

It's worth noting that the Mindlink list that made the top 4 at Worlds didn't include a JumpMaster...

• Fenn + ML + AT + title
• Asajj + ML + Latts
• Palob + ML + TLT

Great to see one of my lists doing so great. Sad that it ain't Manaroo. Palob is such boring replacement for Manaroo.

1 hour ago, wurms said:

I think other factions have lots of non-EPT options. Jess was just released recently with no EPT. Braylen/Gunner has no EPT, Rex has no EPT. Thane has no EPT. Stresshog has no EPT. The TIE Aggressor non-EPT will not be DOA. x7 Deltas have no EPT. Oicunn and Kenkirk are still competitive non-EPT. Other factions can run non-ept ships. Non-ept scum ships might as well not exist as long as a 1pt EPT that supplies a focus to EVERYONE exists. They should just print Attanni Mindlink on the pilot card instead of EPT slot. FFG needs to make more non-EPT scum ships worth playing which would be a big fix they can do. A ship like Jess with no EPT could relinquish the pressure on Mindlink lists. An ability so good it cant be ignored. Sunny blounder was close, but it was on a scyk and we got Genesis Red and Inaldra with EPTs and awesome abiltiies, so Sunny unfortunately will be DOA.

I almost want the scurgg to be released with no-EPT ala Kwing/Punisher just to see what scum players do. That would be interesting.

If we count for example Kenkirk and Thane as competitive, then we should probably also count TLT Syndicate Thug and Party Bus as competitive for Scum.

Apart from that, while Mindlink is the dominant Scum EPT (much like PtL was for Empire in the glory days of Palp Aces), there are lists that manage to do well without Mindlink (including the list that won worlds).

I swear this game has gotten worse since Jumpmasters came into the fray, and hasn't recovered since.

Also I just want to say that all these extra actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions REALLY DRIVE PEOPLE LIKE ME AWAY who liked the simplicity of X-Wing.

Y'see, it's like Elite: Dangerous. Before the Engineers update, the difference between you and another pilot using Viper MK IIIs that were both A-Rated with the exact same loadout was skill.

Now with all of these actions on top of actions on top of actions on top of actions, it's much like Elite: Dangerous post engineers.

Your skill doesn't matter anywhere near as much as the cards you've invested in at this point, seems like.

2 hours ago, Luuke C said:

alright, here is some statistics:
Top 16 cut:
12 scum, 3 rebel, 1 imperial

Scum:
11 Mindlink, 1 non mindlink

Rebel:
2 biggs, 2 miranda


I understand what you are saying, but the evidence suggests that mindlink is overpowering some choices. What is beating mindlink? biggs, and high pilot skill alpha strikes. Sounds similar to the meta from this time last year.

Top 16 doesn't tell that. What was the tournament overall of mindlinks?

1 hour ago, xanderf said:

Eh...just sayin', but...if there were 11 in the top 16, but only 1 out of the top 4...that's not exactly an argument in favor of a nerf. I mean...3 of the 5 people that didn't have mindlink, from the top 16, made it to the top 4?

Math is hard.

I gotta laugh at the over reactions on this. Yes it is a good EPT but you need at least 3 ships to really make it useful and it's a focus. Action economy goes downhill fast once you start losing ships and even more so once you stress the list.
"But only one needs to do a green!" they say, yes but that is predictable and if you are swimming in a sea of attanni lists why are you not adapting your builds to bring stress to the table?
Double stress on attanni lists is killer and ruins your day fast.

Attanni isn't X7 where you literally couldn't stop it, this has counters you just don't want to adapt your builds to neuter it.
People need to quit acting like they are the same thing and action economy has gone through the roof.
At the height of it's early game power 2 of the 3 ships will get to have a focus AND an action.

I wonder how many people who are in tears over mindlink have actually played it and played against it? then again, if it wins any competitions it must be broke right?

It's not attanni.

That's a terrible image, thank you for infecting my meme-sympathetic brain to it ;-)

Because I like to poke at capitalist, here's me pretending to be FFG in an open letter to the community:

"Hey everyone! We've listened to the yays and nays and decided that we wanted to say this to you.

We messed up. The Jumpmaster was just too good, and we're sorry we made you all play against it for the last few seasons. So because of this, we're implementing a full merchandise exchange program for all the Jumpmaster ships you've purchased. Please email us at [email protected] and our support team will work with you to ship your old Jumpmaster cards and cardboard for new cards and cardboard to us. We'll then ship you new kit after we've received it. In the meantime, please treat yourself to a spoiler article on the new Jumpmaster you'll be receiving!

<$DIAL> <$SHIP> <$PILOTS> <$UPGRADES>

Regards,

FFG and Asmodee

PS Those git gud arguments are dumb, srsly.

PSS X-Wing hasn't jumped the shark."

Yeah, without mindlink Scum had no chance of winning worlds

I think you would have been better of with the mindlink cause players to cheat argument instead.

Ok I am not a nerf advocate at all but an idea did come to me. What if ML got the same treatment as deadeye? As in make it small ship only. Two of the biggest 'ML offenders' are large ships. So in making it small ship only it would keep from some messy rewording let it keep what is hood about it and possibly let other formerly uncompetitive small ships have a slot in lists. To me this seems the healtiest way to change it without going the 'kill it ALL with FIRE' route ala Palpatine

Unfortunately, mindlink and engine upgrade both come with large based ships so FFG is unlikely (read neverinabillionyears) to make them small ship only.

8 hours ago, xanderf said:

Eh...just sayin', but...if there were 11 in the top 16, but only 1 out of the top 4...that's not exactly an argument in favor of a nerf. I mean...3 of the 5 people that didn't have mindlink, from the top 16, made it to the top 4?

I initially thought this too - but, logically, with that quantity in the cut, many of them would've knocked each other out.

At a minimum, at least 3 ML lists were knocked out by another ML list in the first elimination; at most even 5 could've gone in that way in that round.

Then elim round 2 would've also had 1 to 2 ML vs ML games.

I'm not advocating a nerf - I like the EPT, but can't objectively say of that's because it makes my playing "easier" or that I like the thematics.

But if there were any alteration, I'd like to see it draw upon the theme.

Extreme worst case scenario could see it "paired" - that you specifically link two ships with each other - each pair works the same way it does now, but only within that pairing. Then you can add further pairs, but each is a closed system. You could have matching lettered tokens to indicate the pairings. (this could possibly be too extreme, as picking off one half of each pair would neuter the synergy even faster).

Alternatively, suggestions about passing only a single token have been shot down claiming chaining would simply invalidate the limit - but there has been at least one proposal that prevents that, and I can think of at least one other.

I agree that making it grant a free Focus action could see it drop from play completely - but that hasn't proven to be immunisation from previous nerfings (hasn't Deadeye returned to relative obscurity).

13 hours ago, Shraken said:

I gotta laugh at the over reactions on this. Yes it is a good EPT but you need at least 3 ships to really make it useful and it's a focus. Action economy goes downhill fast once you start losing ships and even more so once you stress the list.
"But only one needs to do a green!" they say, yes but that is predictable and if you are swimming in a sea of attanni lists why are you not adapting your builds to bring stress to the table?
Double stress on attanni lists is killer and ruins your day fast.

Attanni isn't X7 where you literally couldn't stop it, this has counters you just don't want to adapt your builds to neuter it.
People need to quit acting like they are the same thing and action economy has gone through the roof.
At the height of it's early game power 2 of the 3 ships will get to have a focus AND an action.

I wonder how many people who are in tears over mindlink have actually played it and played against it? then again, if it wins any competitions it must be broke right?

Double stress does nothing against Attani - you will double-stress one ship, any other one will generate the focus for this one. And, despite the stress, it can still transform into a TL later thatnks to R4 Agromech.

Doing green does not make you predictable when half your dial is green and/or you have a turret anyway. Besides, all you need is for one guy to shed that stress and he can be anywhere on the table.

Let's face it - ever since the Jumpmaster came out, there's a serious problem with balance and somehow, the Jumpmaster is always there right in the middle of it. Dengaroo, triple U-boats, Manaroo...

17 hours ago, Azrapse said:

Keep the price and errata the card to add "Green turn maneuvers are considered white"?

After running through a wide range of possible fixes for Mindlink this is actually my favourite.

If the reason why the Lancer and Fang are SO good with it is the amount of green on their dial, make it take some green off their dial.

My favoured solution is 'treat all turns as white' though, to give Kavil a bit of a boost.

I want Mindlink's functionality to stay intact to make generic Fangs, Scyks, Kihraxz, StarVipers, G1As, HWKs etc etc cool and good without needing to buff them too heavily. But even discounting Jumpmasters, it's a bit too good on the ships with green turns.

So taking the green turns away seems like an excellent solution.

Of course, the Jumpmaster will still be undercosted.

If you worded it as 'when you perform a focus action, assign one focus token to another friendly ship with mindlink at range 1-3', you would make it a bit stronger for two ships, but weaker for 3+. You'd also prevent triggering off OCR4, manaroo, palob, guri, etc.

Each time you are assigned a focus, stress, or ion token, each other friendly ship with Attanni Mindlink must also be assigned the same type of token if it does not already have one.

How's that for a fix? Now it's susceptible to stress!

4 hours ago, costi said:

Double stress does nothing against Attani - you will double-stress one ship, any other one will generate the focus for this one. And, despite the stress, it can still transform into a TL later thatnks to R4 Agromech.

Doing green does not make you predictable when half your dial is green and/or you have a turret anyway. Besides, all you need is for one guy to shed that stress and he can be anywhere on the table.

Let's face it - ever since the Jumpmaster came out, there's a serious problem with balance and somehow, the Jumpmaster is always there right in the middle of it. Dengaroo, triple U-boats, Manaroo...

Only having focus available is more than nothing. Barrel rolls, boosts, target locks, and evades are all actions mindlink lists would prefer to be taking.

I wish people would stop perpetuating the myth that Attani doesn't care about stress.

43 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

Each time you are assigned a focus, stress, or ion token, each other friendly ship with Attanni Mindlink must also be assigned the same type of token if it does not already have one.

How's that for a fix? Now it's susceptible to stress!

That's just... horrible.

8 minutes ago, Sekac said:

Only having focus available is more than nothing. Barrel rolls, boosts, target locks, and evades are all actions mindlink lists would prefer to be taking.

I wish people would stop perpetuating the myth that Attani doesn't care about stress.

When the card was announced it was widley regarded as DOA due to the "stress meta" as many were calling it. Now people realise it has some resilience against stress but the truth is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes. Mindlink can be very resilient against stress control as they can still get tokens. BUT BUT BUT stress still limits movement options and action options; including re-positional abilities. Fenn Rau might still get a focus if double stressed but he's not boost or barrel rolling.

3 minutes ago, Smutpedler said:

That's just... horrible.

I'm a horrible person.

47 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

Each time you are assigned a focus, stress, or ion token, each other friendly ship with Attanni Mindlink must also be assigned the same type of token if it does not already have one.

How's that for a fix? Now it's susceptible to stress!

Technically, it's the ship that receives the Ion effect and not the pilot.

...or maybe a slight twist to what @Stevey86 was thinking, a more Zuckuss-y stress sensitive treatment to the card:

Each time you are assigned a focus or stress token, each other friendly ship with Attanni Mindlink that is not currently stressed, must also be assigned the same type of token if it does not already have one.

As said before, the problem is not mindlink (which costs you not just the points but also the opportunity costs of many of your EPTs), but the JM5K, Protectorate and Lancer dials, especially at their resp point costs.

Mindlink is a nice option for the other lower-tier S&V ships (Viper, Kihraxz, Z95, G1A, Scyk) (Speaking of Scyks, they might finally get towards really interesting with the upcoming Genesis Red coupled with ML). FFG nerfing Mindlink would again just bash one of the symptoms, but not the real underlying cause. And totally push the lower ties out.