1 hour ago, Stevey86 said:

As someone who's won a tournament using it, and has been tabled by it in the hands of far inferior players, it really isn't.

One mindlink list made the top 4. One.

8 minutes ago, nigeltastic said:

Isn't the real pain point for jumps that they basically all carry double torpedoes? Without the alpha they really aren't as bad, even with mindlink. 2 dice primaries don't really break the game even on maneuverable large based turrets but the 2 accurate 4 dice alphas punish the aces who typically could counter a jump without munitions.

Yep. It's that and the EPT on the Scout.

Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if FFG pull another "treat the symptom and not the cause" and make Extra Munitions small ship only.

10 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

One mindlink list made the top 4. One.

11 in the top 16 though.

So why doesn't everybody stop crying and just find something that beats them?

20 minutes ago, Moppy said:

... We agree the JM5K is broken...

That's a bit of an assumption there. I think the JumpMaster is in a good place now - a strong ship, but by no means the only competitive choice for its faction.

What I hope FFG realise is not to listen to uninformed cries for nerfs and not to repeat the manner with which they dropped the 'Big Four' last time.

The fact that, after watching a few games and seeing some results, some folk believe they know better than FFG's design department about what should and shouldn't be done with the game is ludicrous.

And the constant harping on about the Jumpmaster becomes tedious when it has already been dealt with.

Because beating a mindlink list is basically boiled down to "Can you 1shot an important ship?"

Mindlink cant be shut down, and Scum have a lot of ships with unusually high green economy to shed the stress anyway. Seeing as how they've stress-cancelled so many other things now i dont see why mindlink isnt shutdown too via stress - "When you receive a Focus Token or Stress Token, any friendly ship with this upgrade and not stressed must receive the same token as well"

Seriously though, the wording on the card makes you think they hate stress lists, but in reality almost every ship that can use it have a ton of greens and better yet have greens in valuable maneuvers so they can keep attacking too . Lot of imp/reb ships greens are in inconvenient maneuvers so often they have to ditch a shot to destress, or keep the stress to keep firing.

1 hour ago, Arthur_McGuire said:

Turrets are fine IMO. Shadow Caster would be broken with normal turret.

You almost never have to change the mobile arc on the Caster once it's set. Being a regular turret wouldnt change the ship power lvl that much.

16 minutes ago, costi said:

It's not about the final table, but more about the Top16 composition, not only here, but on other large tournaments as well.

No wonder that many lists in top 16 is mindlink variables when 80% of players are using them in first place. If someone wants to contribute to the debate, do the math from statistics and let's see where it is at, until then this all is just shady gaga!

Same thing with JM5K's also. I'm so tired of the constant nerfing here in the forum and witch hunt galore! Even if you would be able to change the cost of the mindlink, it wouldn't change the mechanics behind it, it would be the same but without Parattani and guess what, that particular list didn't do so well. Rather you should change the mechanics behind like for Manaroo, but it doesn't matter for good players at all, they can always adapt new tactics and I'm pretty darn sure that all this nerfing comes from average players who are just not exhausting other options and tactics and get tired of loosing. People are looking at scapegoats always in X-Wing but maybe look at the top table players what they are doing to overcome those obstacles on their way to those tables. Nand was perfect example yesterday, he had squad that none of the mindlink lists just couldn't handle. Do anti-mindlink lists, there is ton of ships and upgrades to do that, Palob is one of them, high damage alpha strikers are excellent against them, because more you destroy them lesser effect they do have, stress is good, stealing tokens etc...

Go out people and play around the 36x36" sandbox, develope something original rather than just chewing cards when they don't agree with your game style! It is just so much easier to come up with stupid Nerf than actually invent new solution.

The main problem with mindlink is it is a 1pt EPT, in the same boat as Wired, Rage, and throwaways. AKA way undercosted. Scum lists are becoming stale because there is no point in taking any other EPT in a 3+ ship build. Why would I risk PTL when mindlink gets better results? Why do I need a predator reroll, when I can TL and have a focus from mindlink. Any ship without an EPT is DOA in scum faction because of mindlink. When the scurgg is released, the only playable ships will be whichever have EPT. FFG might as well save ink and not print the non-EPT ships.

Personally, I think 2pts is too low for mindlink. It is PTL for a squad, and instant safety net against bumps, etc. 3pts for mindlink seems about right. Put it in the same cost as predator and PTL and nearly expertise. Make people have to work for mindlink in their squad, not just auto-include. Worse case is jumps have to drop extra munitions to afford it which is part of the problem anyhow.

Im not saying make mindlink 3pts to nerf it all to hell, Im saying make it 3pts to save the faction. Can anyone honestly build a 3+ scum list without mindlink these days? That is the problem. At 3pts, people will still make it work, but it will even out the power creep across the squad. That was the issue with Palp. He wasn't winning worlds, but ever Imp list HAD to have him. It became boring. The nerf opened up the faction.

6 minutes ago, Zazaa said:

No wonder that many lists in top 16 is mindlink variables when 80% of players are using them in first place. If someone wants to contribute to the debate, do the math from statistics and let's see where it is at, until then this all is just shady gaga!

Same thing with JM5K's also. I'm so tired of the constant nerfing here in the forum and witch hunt galore! Even if you would be able to change the cost of the mindlink, it wouldn't change the mechanics behind it, it would be the same but without Parattani and guess what, that particular list didn't do so well. Rather you should change the mechanics behind like for Manaroo, but it doesn't matter for good players at all, they can always adapt new tactics and I'm pretty darn sure that all this nerfing comes from average players who are just not exhausting other options and tactics and get tired of loosing. People are looking at scapegoats always in X-Wing but maybe look at the top table players what they are doing to overcome those obstacles on their way to those tables. Nand was perfect example yesterday, he had squad that none of the mindlink lists just couldn't handle. Do anti-mindlink lists, there is ton of ships and upgrades to do that, Palob is one of them, high damage alpha strikers are excellent against them, because more you destroy them lesser effect they do have, stress is good, stealing tokens etc...

Go out people and play around the 36x36" sandbox, develope something original rather than just chewing cards when they don't agree with your game style! It is just so much easier to come up with stupid Nerf than actually invent new solution.

alright, here is some statistics:
Top 16 cut:
12 scum, 3 rebel, 1 imperial

Scum:
11 Mindlink, 1 non mindlink

Rebel:
2 biggs, 2 miranda


I understand what you are saying, but the evidence suggests that mindlink is overpowering some choices. What is beating mindlink? biggs, and high pilot skill alpha strikes. Sounds similar to the meta from this time last year.

31 minutes ago, MalusCalibur said:

.....And the constant harping on about the Jumpmaster becomes tedious when it has already been dealt with.

Hahahahahahahahahaha! Good one man!

......oh wait, sorry; were you being serious? If so, my apologies.

I remember Nand saying that mindlink squads "no problem"... That's the spirit guys!

32 minutes ago, wurms said:

Any ship without an EPT is DOA in scum faction because of mindlink.

Are you trying to imply pilots without EPTs are generally NOT DOA in other factions?

1 minute ago, LordBlades said:

Are you trying to imply pilots without EPTs are generally NOT DOA in other factions?

well considering there was a rebel list with only one natural ept slot on 4 ships I would say that is true. Deltas were not uncommon pre x7 nerf aswell.

All this over a free focus token.

Get a grip.

4 minutes ago, Comely said:

well considering there was a rebel list with only one natural ept slot on 4 ships I would say that is true. Deltas were not uncommon pre x7 nerf aswell.

I didn't mean ships that were designed from the get-go without EPTs at all, like K-wings or Ghosts, but I didn't make that clear sry.

What I meant is that, for the overwhelming majority of ships in this game (that include a mix of EPT and no EPT pilots), the pilots with EPT see disproportionately more play than their no EPT counterparts in the same ships.

2 hours ago, Stevey86 said:

If someone were to ask me what is the one thing you really hate about this game... Dial creep. That's what's made Attanni lists so **** powerful.

I did notice it this weekend at the escalation tourney. The J5k and fang had a much easier time shedding stress and getting into a good spot than the Starviper, Z-95 or HWK.

Keep the price and errata the card to add "Green turn maneuvers are considered white"?

4 minutes ago, Smutpedler said:

I did notice it this weekend at the escalation tourney. The J5k and fang had a much easier time shedding stress and getting into a good spot than the Starviper, Z-95 or HWK.

Yeah, but Imps and Rebels have had dials like that for a while now. Why should Scum be singled out by not having ships that can do that?

Honestly "Dial Creep" is a good thing. Limit ships in other ways but having horrible dials is just not fun and makes the ships suck to fly.

4 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Yeah, but Imps and Rebels have had dials like that for a while now. Why should Scum be singled out by not having ships that can do that?

I'm not saying they shouldn't. Just that it was very noticeable to me how much better Mindlink works on newer ships than older ones. Fenn Rau is a beast but it took the beasts coming out to really push mindlink to the top.

12 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

Keep the price and errata the card to add "Green turn maneuvers are considered white"?

EDIT: Didn't read your post properly. My bad.

4 minutes ago, nigeltastic said:

Honestly "Dial Creep" is a good thing. Limit ships in other ways but having horrible dials is just not fun and makes the ships suck to fly.

Better than pushing the older ships further and further away from the table.

Though in an ideal world FFG would just update their dials to bring them in line with the newer stuff.

1 hour ago, Stevey86 said:

11 in the top 16 though.

Eh...just sayin', but...if there were 11 in the top 16, but only 1 out of the top 4...that's not exactly an argument in favor of a nerf. I mean...3 of the 5 people that didn't have mindlink, from the top 16, made it to the top 4?