SOR Heroes - Thoughts, ideas and ramblings

By Abyss, in Star Wars: Destiny

With SoR being released and having played my first event, I want to sit down and make some decks....But I'm kind of paralyzed by options! There's a ton of stuff I want to try. So, I thought it might be fun to have some discussion about the new characters and possible decks, mainly those who haven't already had a lot of talk about them (e.g. Palp or Obi-Wan). In particular, looking at where characters fit in points/synergy wise, how they compare to other character options, and the 'optimal' choices (so not things like theme choices - people can work that out themselves, I'm sure).

Also, this is longer than I thought, so maybe a separate topic for Heroes and Villains.

Blue Heroes

Chirrut Imwe (12/16) - Four damage sides, good health for his cost, and a really solid ability that helps mitigate bad rolls. So what's wrong with him? Mixed damage, and half of it modifiers. No blue abilities. That makes it pretty hard to see where he fits in - not a deck running Force powers, so IMO his ability probably ends up being somewhat unimportant. But who wants his mixed damage sides? It feels like he wants to be the supporting someone, rather than being the focus of the deck. But currently no one really fits with him.

Jedi Acolyte (9) - His dice is actually pretty darn good by itself, and could be crazy with his ability (2/3 focus for 9 points? Hell yes). BUT....7 Health for 9 cost. That's really, really fragile, probably too fragile for him to play support for a heavy hitter. Maybe something like Acolytle/Maz/eRey? 2 x Acolyte and eRey? But is this really doing anything better than other decks?

Luminara Undali (13/17) - Okay, so first things first - I think she's terrible as a combat character. Using her special to increase damage by 2 or 3 is 'fine', but not something to build around when the character is otherwise fairly mediocre. I think the real goal will be to increase other dice by two or three, and increasing things that are otherwise hard to increase - so discard, or resources being big ones. Unfortunately, her restriction on being character dice only means it's hard to run her at 13 points, as it costs you a die. At the same time, I'm not sure running her in a two character deck with the smaller characters will be able to stand up to aggressive decks. She's actually got a ton of build options - I'm just not sure any of them are going to be great.

Red Heroes

Baze Malbus (14/18) - Baze feels like he's in a tough position. In comparison to other Red characters, he's essentially an upgraded version of Leia; or an alternative to Poe with more consistent ranged damage and a much, much weaker special. Unfortunately at 18 points, his build options are significantly reduced compared to Leia - he can't take everyone's favorite support character Admiral Ackbar, so he likely has to make do with Maz or Snap. Also, having the 3 being a pay side means he doesn't have that much of an advantage with Focus or cards like It's a Trap that turn your dice to ranged damage - he's often likely to be restricted by resources, nullifying one of his big advantages over Leia. Then you've got Poe, who's less shooty, but obviously has a game defining special. Still, it feels like Baze's niche is definitely the 'red ranged' deck, that doesn't want to worry about catering to Poe's special and just shoots stuff. I can see both Maz and Snap offering advantages to this, but not sure if they offer enough.

Mon Mothma (11/14) - I've seen people say that Mon Mothma is just a worse Ackbar, and I don't think that's entirely fair. I think they each have different advantages, and fill slightly different purposes. Mothma's non-elite cost is unfortunate; at 11 points she can't fit in with characters at the 20 price point, which I think is particularly disappointing for Luke and his search for a new girlfriend (Mon Mothma confirmed not Rey's mother?) In fact, at 11 points I'm not sure she really fits in anywhere - lets see if maybe Heroes get a 19 point character at some point. Elite is where she's challenge Ackbar, and I think it's pretty simple. Ackbar is a better choice if you're playing Mill/discard, due to his discard side and his ability might actually be relevant in more than one out of ten games. He's also the better choice if you're playing a deck with a lot of ranged damage - he may only have one ranged side, but it's relevant often enough to help you resolve modifers. I think in all other cases, Mon Mothma is the right choice - she's got a better support dice, and I feel like her ability is actually pretty amazing (in particular, due to the ability to control two dice with one action, which is often an issue for control decks). I'm particularly looking forward to trying her with variation of Hired Guns/Smuggler/Rebel Trooper, to hopefully generate lots of resources for playing the big vehicles.

Rebel Commando (10) - At 10 points, she's a little too expensive to be a 'filler' character, and most of her dice isn't exceptional - so I think if you're playing her, you're probably playing her for her special. And it's pretty good - expensive, but it's repeatable dice control with no restrictions on what you can hit. With some of the support card Red gets in SoR (Training, Wingman etc), it feels like three of these (or possibly two and another support character) could make for a 'jack of all trades' deck, with decent damage, health, speed and control.

Temmin "Snap" Wexley (9/12) - Whenever I see Snap, I can't help but think 'Man, I'd freaking love to be able to play this guy with Imperial Inspection'. Sadly, that's not an option. Instead, we get a guy who's very good at annoying you're opponent, and pretty terrible at helping you actually win the game. He's neither a fighter or a support character for fighters. As such, I'm not really sure where he fits - what are you trying to do with him? He can help your tempo with his ability, and I'm sure he'll drive some people nuts, but I'm not sure that's worth playing a character who otherwise doesn't really do that much.

Yellow Heroes

Chewbacca - (12/16) - Well, I might be a little biased with Chewie, but I think he's one of the best characters in the set for the likely meta. For a relatively cheap price, he's got a ton of health, he's Yellow so he can take Second Chance and gets you some other good non-shield defensive options (Lone Operative, Disarm), and he's got a lot of damage. He fits in perfectly with Ackbar for a Yellow/Red 'Tank and shoot' deck, or you can go Blue to try to take advantage of the special with things like Force Throw, or Force Speed to resolve specials and then remove the changed dice. Even with out those kind of shenanigans, there's plenty of tricks with the special- turning to modifer or pay sides they can't resolve, turning big damage into something more manageable, or of course using the damage to kill someone. And I think in some cases, simply hitting the opponent and taking the damage back is going to be the right choice, considering Chewie's likely to outlast a lot of characters.

Jyn Erso (15/20) - My general feeling is there are two main decks options with her - one being discard/mill, and the other doubling down on her ability to play lots of events - I think planning to use Never Tell me the Odds, with Infamous you can instant kill people if your max damage > their health. At 15 points, feels like Mill can look at Padme or Ackbar. At 20 points, Ackbar is probably her most viable option for the event heavy deck, similar to Luke/Ackbar with less damage output but more potential tricks.

Maz Kanata (8/11) - Welp, she's super cheap and makes decks fast. I think it's pretty obvious when decks will want her - any 18 coster has to seriously consider her, and she'll probably find her way into some weenie decks as well. With a decent gun and elite, she can also be a surprisingly effective fighter using her ability - using the first action for focus and the second to shoot. She's definitely going to show up a lot.

Outer Rim Smuggler (8) - I kind of hate that they killed the infinite money combo, because that felt like one of the main thing these guys had going for them. The dice is kind of bad - their discard or disrupt should probably have gone for something else. And 7 health for 8 points is unfortunately a little low for what you get. And what is it you get? An extra resource every turn - if you dump your hand. Something that is often sub optimal. I'll try these guys out, but my gut instinct is that they just aren't worth it compared to the existing options at that price of Hired Gun or Rebel Trooper. Or Maz.

What about Obi-wan?

I like the eJyn/Ackbar combo a lot, for most of the reasons you note... it's like a weirder version of Lukebar. I think it's one of the most flexible decks in the game right now, as it can either push for damage or mill depending on your draws/dice/matchup. I wouldn't underestimate the mill potential the deck brings to the table, with so many discard faces and access to some potent deck-targeting cards. Ackbar's ability is gravy, and further enables that kind of hybrid play.

As for Snap, I feel like you're forgetting about Planetary Uprising! Snap's personal damage potential may be low, but he enables Planetary Uprising so well -- he can suddenly be worth 4 damage a turn. He works well with Outmaneuver, to generate more resources. Also, due to his low health and annoyance factor; he probably makes himself your opponent's first target. I have a buddy who just treats Snap as 8 extra health for Han!

Nice! Very in-depth summary of these characters.

I like Chirrut a lot, but I think he's still waiting on more stuff to come out. Still, if you pair him nicely and get lots of Light Bows and Lightsabers in there, he can be a real pain. eChirrut and eRey might pair well, too, because you can use the Cargo Hold shenanigans to move abilities from Rey to Chirrut!

Baze is kind of tricky, but he's a really good tank. The only problem, like you said, is his cost, but maybe a character will come out soon who pairs with him better. If you look at Han/Rey, that deck was overwhelmingly popular, and I wonder if Baze/Rey could be similar? Baze doesn't get Han's ability or access to Second Chance, but he allows access to red hero cards, which might be a little better, actually, depending on how you play the deck.

Jyn is also very tricky. She doesn't fit that well into a mill deck with only one dice, but her elite cost is really high. I think maybe pairing her with Rebel Commando fits the points and allows you to build for either mill or aggro, but it's probably not meta-crushing either way.

For the acolyte, you picked two options I've been thinking about. Also, Luminara/Acolyte/Padawan fits thematically, but it's kinda weak. I think you're right that having the same amount of health as a stormtrooper makes the acolyte too fragile.

I didn't really mean to suggest Rey with everything, but Luminara/Rey actually seems pretty good too. Basically, just think of Luminara's specials as slightly limited versions of the +2 side on Lure of Power, and ignore the "non-unique" part, because non-uniques always struggle for action efficiency and tankability (probably not a real word...)

Chewie, Snap, and Maz are all really good. I can see them fitting in anywhere.

You did forget Obi-Wan, but that's ok because he's really weak and has no place in the meta anyway.

Poor ORS... he only exists because each subfaction is required to have one non-unique per wave. If only he'd cost 7... then I'd run ORS/ORS/Gun/Gun and sell all my cards that aren't yellow hero!

I really like this wave, but I still feel like we need another wave or so before there's enough options for everything. As it is, some characters have been stranded.

Now I just need to go cry because in my three booster boxes I still didn't pull a single Chewie, but I got three Baze...

I'm still trying to brainstorm how to make QGJ, Snap, and Resistance HQ work together. I feel like there's a deck there, it just needs some consideration as far as damage types go. Do I focus on melee for QGJ, ranged in case QGJ gets focused down early, or play a shields/attrition game?

2 hours ago, Kieransi said:

You did forget Obi-Wan, but that's ok because he's really weak and has no place in the meta anyway.

At the risk of repeating myself in yet another thread, you really should give Ben a chance. I'm pretty sure you'll find him stronger than you give him credit. I'm not saying your going become the next world champion with him, but open your mind and give him a shot. If it helps I'll say please.

Your avatar makes me think you may be biased. ;)

Edited by joeshmoe554
typo
4 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

Your avatar makes me thing you may be biased. ;)

Fair enough, I hadn't thought of that. I actually didn't have an avatar until Waaagh shamed me into selecting one.?

Seriously though, I wrote him off too until I tried him. The deck was fun and the results exceeded my expectations.

2 minutes ago, Starbane said:

Fair enough, I hadn't thought of that. I actually didn't have an avatar until Waaagh shamed me into selecting one.?

Seriously though, I wrote him off too until I tried him. The deck was fun and the results exceeded my expectations.

I am likewise Chewbacca-biased!

No, I really want to like Ben, he's one of my favorite characters! I'm just a little salty that I've opened three boxes without pulling a Ben, so I've decided to be angry at him! Plus, he's a similar cost to Luke, and I don't think his ability/dice are as good.

14 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I am likewise Chewbacca-biased!

No, I really want to like Ben, he's one of my favorite characters! I'm just a little salty that I've opened three boxes without pulling a Ben, so I've decided to be angry at him! Plus, he's a similar cost to Luke, and I don't think his ability/dice are as good.

I think his dice are arguably better. They have 4 identical sides. Luke has an advantage with his 2 melee side vs Ben's 1. Ben has an advantage with a 2 focus side vs Luke's 1 shield.

Luke does win out on health 12-11.

I'm uncertain who's ability(s) I like better.

@Starbane , I think you may be right! Perhaps I've been being too hard on Old Ben! He certainly looks like a good pairing with Rey. Maybe I'll buy some more packs and hope I get him (I don't feel like braving the singles market now...)

Edited by Kieransi
Had to fix some stuff that spellcheck "fixed"
13 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

@Starbane , I think you may be right! Perhaps I've been being too hard on Old Ben! He certainly looks like a good pairing with Rey. Maybe I'll buy some more packs and hope I get him (I don't feel like braving the singles market now...)

It's easy to underestimate him because of the awkward point cost he shares with Luke.

Luke gets mixed reviews because of his cost despite having an excellent die. It's easy to look at Ben and only see that cost that makes finding pairings with Luke so difficult.

What I'm still not sure is if it is better to run him Elite or single. I pulled 2 Obi-Wan in my boxes but I'm thinking about trading the second one.

Obi-Wan/e Rey sounds good and something I'll try, although I thing eRey will still be better with eQuiGon.

eObi-Wan/????

That Being said, I think I prefer Obi-Wan die over Luke because of the Focus 2 instead of 1 shield.

Edited by Red Castle

For Obi-Wan, I didn't forget about him. I should have made it a bit clearer, but I excluded him because we'd already had a pretty big topic about him, which I think has probably covered most peoples thoughts on him (For the record, I'd agree with Starbane, I don't think he's the absolute trash some people have declared him as, and he's got some potential).

Snap, I actually hadn't considered the benefits of the cards that grant you bonuses for claiming the battlefield (which probably shows how much thought I've really put in to him). Being able to reliably trigger Planetary Uprising and Outmaneuver does sound quite strong; at the same time I wonder whether you could get the same advantage by simply playing a faster deck. But it does make me more interested in trying him out. On pairing him up with QGJ with Resistance HQ - I think HQ is a trap. I've tried it before (QGJ/Rebel Trooper/Something), HQ was just too expensive (in terms of resource and cards) to justify using it.

I played someone running eJyn/Rebel Commando, not optimized but reasonably effective. At the same time it felt lacking in real push, and I didn't feel particularly threatened by it during the game. I don't think it's got enough 'bite', but we'll see.

On Baze, I'm not sure I'd agree with him being a good tank - at 11 health and no defensive ability, I think he's actually the most fragile character at that price point. And I feel most of Red's defensive effects are shields, which are greatly devalued by Vibroknife. It's unfortunate that Rey is the Heroes only real low point unique fighter - I don't think she plays well with Baze at all, but you've kind of got to consider it anyway. I definitely don't think it compares to Han/Rey, which benefited from Han's longevity combined with Rey's tempo - in comparison, I think Baze just wants to shoot things, and needs to be built towards that.

Luminara/Rey feels like a very 'default' choice. I think people will play it and it'll be 'fine', but I don't think it'll be a better option than other choices. Again, this may be an issue with Rey being the only real option for an aggressive deck.

Outer Rim Smuggler, I'm just not sure why he's got the lower health. Comparing him to Guavian Enforcer, and I don't think the Enforcer's dice+ability is so much worse than the ORS that it's worth +2 health. At 8 health, I think I'd be a lot more keen on the ORS.

Any hope for Han and Chewie? I want this to work some day, but it seems to be so limited in the Meta right now.

5 hours ago, DJRAZZ said:

Any hope for Han and Chewie? I want this to work some day, but it seems to be so limited in the Meta right now.

IMO, not really in a competitive sense. They don't really go together very well - only three dice, no particular synergies and they are both Yellow so you can't splash another colour. I think I'd always take Leia over Chewie as a partner for Han, and even that's not the best.

But to be fair, they clearly weren't really designed to go together, beyond their points allowing a three dice deck with either elite. As such, I'm sure we'll see BFF versions of them further down the line that go together a bit better. Personally, I'm hoping for 15 points elites of all the 'main' OT Heroes characters, so that you can mix and match.

After drawing 3 Chirruts (out of 24 boosters), I think I pretty much have to run him in a deck. Can anyone think of a good pairing for eChirrut? I'm tempted to use Baze just for the atmosphere, but I'm not sure he's the best choice.

For Chirrut, I'd be tempted to run Rey, with the Cargo Hold to move abilities over from Rey to Chirrut! Right now, with Force Speed and events like Guard, blue is kind of where it's at.

Also, if you put New Orders in there, you're guaranteed to get that Cargo Hold transferring stuff from Rey to Chirrut!

We're all waiting for that Jedi Holocron...

Edited by Kieransi
Added more
1 hour ago, Kieransi said:

For Chirrut, I'd be tempted to run Rey, with the Cargo Hold to move abilities over from Rey to Chirrut! Right now, with Force Speed and events like Guard, blue is kind of where it's at.

Also, if you put New Orders in there, you're guaranteed to get that Cargo Hold transferring stuff from Rey to Chirrut!

We're all waiting for that Jedi Holocron...

Jedi Holocron = Destiny for now. Fricken love that card.