I am new to the game. I currently own The basic game and both expansions. I have read that many of the scenarios that come with the basic game are fairly lopsided. I have downloaded the the six that are available online to start with.

Just wondering what thoughts are on the scenarios that come with the current expansions?

What about Tide of Iron: Designer Series....are these 20 new scenarios or does it include some that are already available online?

Are the new maps really new, or just the old ones redone? Are they needed for any of the designer serries scenarios?

Appreciate any insight.

TIA,

Aaron

Hmm... I recognize this name from the Forumini. Small world.

A quick answer to at least two of your questions:

1. Expansion Scenarios

The Days of the Fox expansion has both of my favorite ToI scenarios - Rescue Mission and Operation Crusader. I enjoy playing these two because they are well-balanced (with Rescue Mission being the more balanced of the pair), quick to set up and play fast. This makes them perfect as introductions to the game. Rescue Mission is especially good in this regard as it can be re-played in the same night with players swapping sides. In fact, I would recommend Rescue Mission over Tiger Hunt as the best beginner scenario.

Operation Crusader is fun because, well, who doesn't like blowing up a lot of tanks? Plus, I bought enough 1/144 scale pre-painted tanks to sub out the pieces that come with ToI. As an AAM collector, you could probably use V1 or V2 tanks to give your game that added visual "pop". The V2 miniatures might be a bit big for the ToI hexes, but as this scenario doesn't include any infantry, they will probably fit well enough.

I own the Normandy expansion as well as the Designer Series, but have to play any scenarios from either so I can't comment on them.

2. Designer Series

The Designer Series book includes 22 scenarios, two of which are available for download on FFG's site - Breaking the Line and Chain of Command. Therefore, you get 20 original scenarios.

A warning about the Designer Series book - it has a fair number of critical mistakes in it. For the most part these have been covered in errata, but as a stickler for good proof-reading I found it annoying, more so because it's such a beautiful book and reading the various designers' notes was fascinating. I just wish the scenarios themselves had been given another once over from the FFG rules team (or maybe even one more after that).

I hope that helps.

Sincerely,

Yipe

Ok. i'm a dork, but where are the scenarios posted?

SgtWaka said:

Never you mind. The dork found them. Thanks!

Very helpful...Thanks!

Played Cahin of command tonight..Twice(we swapped sides. Germans one both time, but I think my son faired better than I both times.

I think this game will see some play this weekend as my oldest took some interest as well and wants to play tomorrow.

So, should I just skip the Scenarios that come with ToI for now and move on to the DoF and Normandy? I figure the next step is to add some tanks to the mix.

afilter said:

Sounds like fun!

To answer your question, I would jump straight to Rescue Mission. It includes a tank, a half-track and an ATG, which adds to the fun but isn't overwhelming. Besides, the desert boards look stunning. After that try Operation Crusader and then go from there. I've heard nothing but good things about both Chain of Command and Breaking the Line.

A rule of thumb I use when choosing a ToI battle for beginners is to count the number of map boards used in the scenario, as well as the number of turns. This gives me a pretty good idea about how long the game will last and how complex it will be. A four-board scenario runs about an hour to an hour and a half depending on set-up time (infantry heavy games take longer), playing style and familiarity with the rules. For every two additional boards, I add between 45 minutes to an hour. Of course, that's just my experience. I could be a slow player so take that measurement with a grain of salt.

The one exception to this is the Operation Crusader scenario. Even though it has nine boards and eights turns, it only includes seven units for the Germans and eight for the British, and set-up is a snap because you don't have to create any infantry squads. It's all tanks, all the time.

If you want to stick with missions from the base game, my recommendation goes to Liberation. Straight out of the box it's a sure-fire loss for the Germans, but with a bit of tinkering it can be a lot of fun. The battle over the command objective on map 4A (a bridge) is a blast, and it generally determines who wins the game so it makes the game tense from the get go. I've played it solo several times and found that it's more balanced (though not necessarily equal) if you take away the "Lay Smoke" and "Merciless Assault" cards from the Americans, as well as exchange four of their Elite Infantry for Regular Infantry, and then give the Germans two "Sniper Attack" cards instead of one. It's still a hard slog for the Wehrmacht, but it's not 100% impossible.

The first scenario - At the Breaking Point - is also fun, but seriously lop-sided in favor of the US. Personally, as an old Space Hulk player I don't mind unbalanced scenarios - as long as I know it's not an equal match from the outset - but with a game as long as ToI it can become boring for the player who has it too easy. For this scenario, I've played around with giving the Germans a Tiger instead of a partially crippled Panzer Mk IV, reducing the command points for the Americans (e.g. down-grading the 3-pt command objective in map 8B to 1-pt), switching the starting number of Strategy Cards that the Germans and Americans receive, and making the forest hexes in map 8B clear terrain.

Happy gaming.

Sincerely,

Yipe

Myself, i have been avoiding getting into DOTF and Normandy for now until i was able to get through the early scenarios. Yipe you seemed to be up to tune on this game and noticed you mentioned something that i have read before. I thought the liberation scenario was far better than The breaking point one as far as balance, but i noticed alot of people say it was way balanced in favotr of U.S. or Germans. Myself, i've had different outcomes most everytime, however i played it different. At first i rushed to the bridge with the germans to halt the Halftrack and not let them cross and that duded got the "James Gang" pulled on him and the Americans went into town and quite decidedly decimated those nice German Folks. Next game i got alot smarter with the germans and laid in wait with most of them in the buildings. With cover 3 its a undeniable advantage, except i hid the mortar well with a spotter that could see the G.I. Joes coming and pinned a good lot of them down. The Jerries had the americans on that one, so i think thaqt changing tactics a wee here and there can make a world of difference.

If one side is losing or has alot of bad dice, i immediately let them shoot with "Arkham Horror" dice to even the score.

Thanks, I appreciate the direction on scenario choice. Since there is alot in set up with this game, I hate to test play something just to learn it is decided by Turn 3. Although my son is a fight to the death type player even if there is not hope for a victory in points. In chain of command we learned quickly that you have to protect the delicate half tracks. Even though they were destroyed/heavily damaged he still enjoyed killing my Germans to the bitter end.

The Tank battle sounds cool and is something we will definately try this weekend.

SgtWaka said:

Thanks for the compliment, but I don't know how "in tune" I am with ToI. I feel like I've still got a lot to learn about this game, and I haven't played it nearly as much as I want, though that can be said for most of the games I own.

As for Liberation, it's my favorite scenario from the base game, and I do agree it can have multiple outcomes. I still think it favors the Americans, but then again perhaps I'm not playing the Germans well enough? This is a definite possibility.

I played Liberation solo several times before trying it against an opponent, just to get my tactics with the Germans down pact. For me, the key was A) knowing how many forces to commit to the bridge assault, B) where to hide and when to reveal my concealed forces and C) where and when to make my push with the half-track. Timing is everything with Liberation, and the "bridge detachment" has to launch their attack (preferrably through multiple Assault actions) at just the right moment.

I found if I concentrated my squads in the town and just let the Americans have the bridge without much resistance - and thereby gain their reinforcements - my forces would get swamped at the end by a swarm of US half-tracks. However, if I committed too much to the bridge the Americans would wipe me out early with their machine-guns (from the hills on 3A) and flame-throwers. It's a delicate balance for the Germans, which is why I like Liberation so much.

It's been a while since I played this scenario so my memory may not be 100%, but I believe my best options were to A) set up my AT squads in concealment on the southern-most edge of map 1A (hexes that border map 4A are viable for deployment) and wait until I could see the "whites of the Americans' eyes" before firing, B) put four Elite Infantry in the half-track and keep it hidden behind the hill on 1A to act as my spearhead on turn four, and finally C) put a double mortar crew behind the center building in 2A. Though this left the mortars out in the open, it gave them better coverage of the bridge (and nearby hexes) than if I had set them up in the building furthest back. I would then use my other forces to spot for them, only moving the mortars back into cover when threatened from 6A (which takes a little while for the Americans to navigate due to the stream).

Initiative is critical in this scenario, so that is where I would spend the majority of my command points (holding them in reserve to keep my opponent guessing and then committing them en masse on turn four). Going second on turn four is huge because the Germans need to secure the command objective and hold it from the inevitable American counter-attack. Because the Germans don't have as many squads, the Americans can pad out their activation phases and force the Germans to commit first. This hurts. Therefore, it's nice to make the Americans go first - eating up 3 of their activations - to lessen the blow.

Of course, after all that I did lose. Doh!

Sincerely,

Yipe

afilter said:

It looks like this question was never answered, so I did a little digging for you.

1. New Maps vs Old Maps

The short answer is yes, the new maps are the same as the old ones. However...

They aren't exact reprints. Stylistic changes have been made to the artwork (most noticeably to the buildings, though the rough terrain is different as well), but everything is in the same place so they are functionally identical. Note, the new maps have the same style of art found on the Days of the Fox and Normandy boards.

Here is a link that shows several pics of the new and old maps side-by-side (scroll down to the gallery):

www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/40928/tide-of-iron-map-expansion-pack-one

2. New Maps and Designer Series Scenarios

The short answer is no, the new maps are not needed for any of the Designer Series scenarios. However...

The scenario 2 On 2, Round One requires two copies of the ToI base game to play. You could purchase the Map Pack, which would give you enough board pieces to play this massive scenario, but you would still be short on counters, infantry, tanks and cards (it requires multiples of the same decks).

Sincerely,

Yipe

Great...the designer serries is now on my want list.

Probably wait on the map boards for awhile.

Did some digging on the web site as well and found some great looking scenarios under the editor section. I think these will keep us busy for along time....eventually we will go back and try the basic scenarios once we are more experienced and recognize what might be added to tweak them for balance.

So far we have played:

Chain of Command (Official Download)

Breaking the Line (Official Download)

Tiger Hunt.....GREAT Short scenario! (Player created download)

Operation Crusader (DotF)

On Deck:

Blood on the mountain-(Official Download)

Rescue Mission(DotF)

Redball Express(Player created Download)

Shoot Out at Cecina (Player created Download)

...so many game to play...so little time.

afilter said:

...so many game to play...so little time.

I know the feeling.

I found one more scenario - this one from the base game - that you might add to your list:

Silence the Guns.

I haven't played it myself, but I did read several session reports about it on BGG and it seems to be a fairly balanced, tense battle. Silence the Guns favors the Germans slightly, but it favors good deployment, tactics and resource management even more, which in my book are the hallmarks of any fun game. It also doesn't look to need any tweaking, and has decent replay value.

Man, all this scenario talk makes me want to throw down a game of ToI.

Picked up the designer serries scenario book tonight. I think the maps will wait awhile. This should keep me busy for some time. Oh dang, I forgot I still have to work too.

Major, i don't know what you have a degree in but i believe it should be stated, " Still have to work as well, or still have to work, too. Me mum was a grammar teacher. Unfortunately i was too much of a DUMBKAFT at mathematics to obtain a degree, but i have a strong sense for grammar.

Just kiddin' Aaron....Just like to poke fun at the officer league from time to time. Please let me know how that Designer series is...

SgtWaka said:

Yeah, internet grammar not one of my strong points.

Book looks really good, I perused it last night. Probably will not get to actually play until somethime next week though.