28 minutes ago, Nagori-A-Go-Go said:

Good. Maybe this means we won't have the same handful of big bads nearly destroy Rokugan forever over and over again this time.

They need to keep Fu Leng as the big bad in the shadowlands.

45 minutes ago, HidaYama said:

They need to keep Fu Leng as the big bad in the shadowlands.

Why?

I personally would like a redemption story for him. The idea of the dark daughter was also flirted arond with in the old game, so I would love to see a story in which she can redeem her father. I pretty much played that in RPG game, where I declared my Spider Monk (nun would be more precise) to be Fu Lengs daugther (born during the time he was mortal) and worked then towards meeting Iweko I and having set up a new tao that brings balance bteween bushido and shourido and lets Fu Leng return to his siblings in Tengoku.

I once created an alternate timeline that started during the events of Lotus edition. The split happens because Togashi Mitsu, the Oracle of Thunder, interferes too directly, by saving Emperor Toturi Naseru's life. Emperor Naseru then has a daughter, who shows great promise, and by her gempukku, she was considered to be very like her namesake, Toturi Tsudao, but with the political acumen of her father, and great wisdom for her age from having been tutored by the Dragon and Phoenix.

When Tsudao was only 17, Emperor Naseru was killed by a man calling himself Okishi, the Dark Oracle of Thunder.

Okishi and a mysterious Ogre named Uragoru perform a ritual that empowers their master: Onnatangu, formerly Lord Moon. Onnatangu has become the ultimate Gaki ('hungry spirit'). He consumes his son, Fu Leng, and becomes one with Jigoku to a degree that not even Fu Leng managed. He instills a new Champion of the Shadowlands, an ogre he named Daimusha.

There's a lot more (a *lot*. heh).

6 hours ago, Drudenfusz said:

Why?

I think because pre-Jigoku Fu Leng was very different from post-Jigoku Fu Leng. The former was effectively the Loki of the setting, and had fairly little in common with the latter. Corruption-free Fu Leng would be, like, a completely new character, at which point it might be questionable to push for the change.

6 hours ago, Drudenfusz said:

The idea of the dark daughter was also flirted arond with in the old game, so I would love to see a story in which she can redeem her father.

She wasn't Fu Leng's true daughter.

2 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

I think because pre-Jigoku Fu Leng was very different from post-Jigoku Fu Leng. The former was effectively the Loki of the setting, and had fairly little in common with the latter. Corruption-free Fu Leng would be, like, a completely new character, at which point it might be questionable to push for the change.

She wasn't Fu Leng's true daughter.

Shahei? Sure, but you know that there has been a dark daughter before she took that as her title?

15 minutes ago, Drudenfusz said:

Shahei? Sure, but you know that there has been a dark daughter before she took that as her title?

I thought you were referring to the girl form the Thousand Years of Darkness. Wasn't the other daughter in the AEG!canon universe just a title thing?

7 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

I thought you were referring to the girl form the Thousand Years of Darkness. Wasn't the other daughter in the AEG!canon universe just a title thing?

No, it was very heavily implied that she was actually his daughter (together with the first Crane Thunder), but of course Rokugani don't speak much about such matters. Anyway, my solution for my own little spider daughter of his was then that he got a child before he started to rember who he is after he become mortal for a time. But of course in the new canon we might even have a whole bloodline of him. The possiblities are endless, so I hope that FFG is making use of that freedom!

7 hours ago, HidaYama said:

They need to keep Fu Leng as the big bad in the shadowlands.

I didn't get the impression that this was changing.

We won't know till we know, the only thing we do know is that it's their sandbox now.

16 minutes ago, Drudenfusz said:

No, it was very heavily implied that she was actually his daughter (together with the first Crane Thunder)

Wait, what... how could that even happen?

From Bloodties:

"Shahai had heard the legends of the Dark Daughter. It was said she was akutenshi, a dark servant of Jigoku. It was said that she was the corrupted daughter of the Crane Thunder, lost centuries ago to the power of Fu Leng. "

Since exact fate of Doji Konishiko was unknown, it is quite possible that something like that could happen. Who knows what Fu Leng did to her if they captured her alive.

9 minutes ago, Doji Makoto said:

Since exact fate of Doji Konishiko was unknown, it is quite possible that something like that could happen. Who knows what Fu Leng did to her if they captured her alive.

Considering that Isawa sealed Fu Leng away in the Black Scrolls, most likely nothing. Also, Hida Atarasi took the head of every Thunder (except Shosuro's) as his final act (that, in turn, resulted in his own corruption), so there is that.

That's weird. Konishiko's profile clearly states that it was only believed she died that day.

8 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

Considering that Isawa sealed Fu Leng away in the Black Scrolls, most likely nothing.

That's why I wrote "they" - minions of Fu Leng, maybe they corrupted her, used some magic to keep her alive, I don't know. Anything to keep her alive waiting for their master's return.

But all this information I have from wiki. I never really cared that much about Fu Leng's story - interclan conflict is much more important to me.

9 hours ago, HidaYama said:

They need to keep Fu Leng as the big bad in the shadowlands.

My big issue with major villains in the old story was that they never really went away. Iuchiban is probably the best example of rehashing a villain.

A lot of stuff in AEG lore contradicts itself. Even more so for the early stuff, they added things because it sounded cool at the time without caring about if it was coherent with the already existing background.

For Atarasi, it's said that he took the head of the fallen Thunders to prevent them from being raised, but the only ones he could have done so are Mirumoto and Isawa if you believe every Thunder's story (but I guess it would have sounded a lot less "cool" to say he took the head of only 2 people than implying that he did it to almost all the other Tunders...).

For Konishiko, it's said that she was left alone in a closed room to stop the incoming enemies and buy time for Isawa, and AFAIK, it was never confirmed what happened to her after that. Since Fu Leng was imprisonned, it's not possible he'd be physically the Dark Daughter's father. I consider it to be more of a spiritual filiation.

I was rereading the Dawn of the Empire fiction and the narrator says that the stories have changed through oral tradition, which makes sense for the contradictions or plot holes in Ye Olden times, at least to me.

That's one thing I think fantasy worlds in general suffer from; the belief or insistence that there is one gospel truth as to how things happened in the past, when in the real world such tales and myths often change or exist in multiple versions. I think it would be much more organic for the people in the "modern" Rokugan time frame to have multiple versions of events in the ancient past, each seen through the lens of their clans values and ideals, and for there to be no single objectively "correct" version of the past at all (though of course each clan would believe their version is correct.)

I'm actually hoping for a more "Asian" creation myth rather than Greek Myth with the names changed.

If you want a mother for Fu Leng's child you could go with Doji Nashiko if you want, she is even called "The Demon Bride of Fu Leng". The 4th edition Enemies of the Empire says there are rumors about them having descendants. Although if you want the mother as a positive influence to contrast with the Dark Kami you'll probably want to use another one, she is an outright villain.

Doji Nashiko was a woman born in the 6th century, far after Fu Leng's imprisonement. Like the Dark Daughter, her title of Demon Bride appears to be more symbolic than real and her offsprings fathered by anybody but Fu Leng. If you want Fu Leng to have true children (in AEG version of Rokugan), it would have to be from somebody he encountered before the first Day of Thunder (some girl from the Noriaki tribe for example) or during his possession of Hantei 39th or when he came back as a mortal.

I would also like to think that Fu Leng's kids are utter disappointments for their father:

- Firstborn son is powerful, but completely lacks ambition, and just generally wants to chill at a nice place with some nice company.

- Second son is powerful, is quite ambitious, but has a dominant martial spirit and a habbit to forge strong comradeship with fellow warriors.

- Third son is very powerful, is very ambitious, but is also dumb like a brick and easily confused.

- Fourth son is powerful, even has considerable ambition, but his narcissism is beyond measure, so he is largely useless.

- First and only daughter is a complete psychopath, even her dad keeps a certain distance from her.

- Fifth son is the most powerful, but is also the most detached, and suffers from a mild god complex that makes him entirely unreliable.

- Sixth son is powerful, is ambitious, and is a honorable good guy who detests the ways of his dad.

Then we have the twist of the children thinking that their dad is an idiot, and feeling more at home with the Great Clan closest to their personalities (Unicorn, Crab, Lion, Crane, Scorpion, Dragon, Phoenix, respectively), rather than joining their dad to do FuLeng-y things.

Why all this interest in the mother of the daughter of Fu Leng... in the AEG timeline? Reboot!!! Fu Leng's Adopted Son. Fu Leng's Ex-Wife. Fu Leng's Shiba Inu.

Quote

Future Fu Leng: Kids, I'm gonna tell you an incredible story, the story of how I met your mother.

Fu Leng's Son: Are we being punished for something?

Future Fu Leng: No.

Fu Leng's Daughter: Dad, is this gonna take a while?

Future Fu Leng: Yes. 1225 years ago, before I was Dad, I had this whole other life…

Maybe when Fu Leng was evicted from Tengoku, he fell in a Ningen-do area that had a human tribe and which he took away with him to Jigoku when he opened the Festering Pit. Maybe, at the begining, he tried to protect those humans out of "Ops! I'm sorry!" but ended corrupted and the tribe becoming his corrupted families, etc. Not that I think that FFG goes that route but does sound interesting as a later option for those families later emerging...

Someone's starting something in the Shadowlands. It could be the Necromancer (the original choice before AEG settled on Junzo). It could be Atarasi. It could be Akuma. It could be Mug. It could be Other Mug. It could be Moto Tsume. It could even be Daigotsu.

All we know for certain is something's going on.

16 hours ago, KerenRhys said:

Doji Nashiko was a woman born in the 6th century, far after Fu Leng's imprisonement. Like the Dark Daughter, her title of Demon Bride appears to be more symbolic than real and her offsprings fathered by anybody but Fu Leng. If you want Fu Leng to have true children (in AEG version of Rokugan), it would have to be from somebody he encountered before the first Day of Thunder (some girl from the Noriaki tribe for example) or during his possession of Hantei 39th or when he came back as a mortal.

True, but doesn't the whole akutenshi deal make her inmortal? She could have made a visit to the possessed Hantei or maybe Furumaro (although he may not count). I'm just saying she could fill the role.

On 5/7/2017 at 10:04 PM, MonkeyClanMiko said:

I only started playing L5R with Ivory Edition. While I've read a great deal of the fiction since I began, I haven't read all of it.

Is there anything from the AEG days that's still considered canon? Has FFG ruled on that at all, or would it just be soft canon?

It's like when Disney took over Star Wars from LFL: everything ceased being canon, except the films. That didn't mean the old stories/characters/things wouldn't become canon again, but it also didn't mean they would. Take Wedge Antilles, in the fiction he had always been a Corellian hotshot pilot who fell in with the Rebellion after running freighters and the like, as so many Corellians did. In Disney-Canon, all of that was stripped away and we still have Wedge, but now he was an Imperial cadet who defected (during an episode of Rebels), and who the hell knows if he's even from Corellia now?


I imagine it's the same way for AEG. Nothing is canon, except the fundamental setting (Rokugan, the Kami, the seven clans, the geography, etc.). As AEG moves forward, they may integrate the old canon and they might leave it by the wayside. Either way, as of right now nothing of the old stories is canon (yet).