I've been a die-hard X-Wing player for years...now I've recently been intrigued and enticed by commanding a fleet in lieu of a squadrons and have made quite the initial investment in this seemingly balanced SW game. Plus, Jumpmasters and nerfs in X have basically made a mockery of the once awesome FFG space superiority fighters game.

However, keeping up with and studying results of the recent Armada Worlds competition has me very wary of diving into entry level competition games for hesitation that FFG has the same s*** going on in Armada in a very OP disaster that destroys creativity, akin to the X-Wing Jumps.

.....please oh Armada Admirals, explain the true logic, and talk me down from relinquishing my command of my new ISD. Thanks!

We're about to have a new wave drop that will shake up the universe some. Fighters will probably be dominant for the time being due to the quasar fire and Sloane, but for almost anything else it's not guaranteed.

14 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I've been a die-hard X-Wing player for years...now I've recently been intrigued and enticed by commanding a fleet in lieu of a squadrons and have made quite the initial investment in this seemingly balanced SW game. Plus, Jumpmasters and nerfs in X have basically made a mockery of the once awesome FFG space superiority fighters game.

However, keeping up with and studying results of the recent Armada Worlds competition has me very wary of diving into entry level competition games for hesitation that FFG has the same s*** going on in Armada in a very OP disaster that destroys creativity, akin to the X-Wing Jumps.

.....please oh Armada Admirals, explain the true logic, and talk me down from relinquishing my command of my new ISD. Thanks!

This is the first time since the release of Wave 2 where we've seen significant exploitation of a singular list archetype across the entire upper echelons of a major tournament (and only the first time where that archetype has ended up winning the major event). If you look at the Regionals data over the last several months, this was a bit of a sleeper list that performed well in 2-3 regionals, but then hung back towards the top 4 with several other common archetypes also doing well.

While not exactly taking credit for this, I have a suspicion that several players first became aware of this archetype after some players including myself discussed our concerns with it here and elsewhere. Now that we've seen it perform, we'll see if anything comes of it. However, this one list archetype is not necessarily going to be the only game in town and I have seen that it takes quite a bit of skill to play consistently at the top tournaments.

Top 4 at World is Top 4 at Worlds.

We are on Store Championship Season. Store Championship Season is not Top 4 at Worlds. Go play with your local players and see what they like to fly. Plan accordingly.

Or let our resident numbers / logic guy reassure you why he thinks FFG will "fix the problem". http://xwingtactics.blogspot.com/2017/05/will-ffg-get-out-its-nerf-bat.html#more

Pilot skill is a very large factor in Armada, that list is quite punishing of mistakes, those players are playing extremely well as is. Hold tight, everything will be just fine.

I wouldn't be too worried about it. Following the pattern of IA and X-Wing, FFG will take measures to prevent this from happening in the future, whether it be an errata or a counter in future waves.

Also, you only need to worry about it at competitive events. So if you just play casual, there should be an understanding that you guys shouldn't be gunning at each others throats.

3 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I wouldn't be too worried about it. Following the pattern of IA and X-Wing, FFG will take measures to prevent this from happening in the future, whether it be an errata or a counter in future waves.

Also, you only need to worry about it at competitive events. So if you just play casual, there should be an understanding that you guys shouldn't be gunning at each others throats.

While I know what you mean, I don't think it should be up to the player base to decide what is okay to take. Any game you can have a friendly agreement not to take X, but ultimately the game developers should be the ones taking measures. Just taking "fun" stuff will lead to players who don't want to keep losing to seek an edge within the confines of the rules, in my experience.

The good news is that FFG genuinely cares about their games. I had a short conversation with Mr. Gernes himself, and it was very clear to me he is passionate about this game and, in his own words, "I just want to make sure the game is fun."

Local metas are all different. Last tournament here it was all imps except one rebel. Next week it will be different again. Play what you find fun or competitive. Enjoy the game. I played with people in different metas and it is very easy going for the most part and very fun.

39 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I've recently been intrigued and enticed by commanding a fleet in lieu of a squadrons

I'm just gonna tell you right now that with some very specific exceptions if you're planning on playing Armada without any squadrons, you're gonna have a bad time. You don't need to go heavy squadrons yourself, but at least a decent fighter screen is usually going to be necessary. I see people get in who refuse to play with squadrons at all and bomber fleets just absolutely crush them. I just wanted you to be aware so you don't get any wrong ideas is all.

Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about Worlds. Worry about your local scene.

55 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I'm just gonna tell you right now that with some very specific exceptions if you're planning on playing Armada without any squadrons, you're gonna have a bad time.

This is not 100% true. Playing without squadrons can be VERY bad as a new player but as you grow in the game you can play without squadrons and still win.

30 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

This is not 100% true. Playing without squadrons can be VERY bad as a new player but as you grow in the game you can play without squadrons and still win.

Several high bid - high activation lists can still make it count against fighters.. It is about getting in there and kill the carrier... Trouble is if the Flotillas act as carriers through relay...

Also to th OP.. Here in Denmark we do not have a fixed "meta" and no one really seem to really get Rieekan to work. Our local top players typically plays some sort of ISD Motti list, but we have also recently seen a triple VSD Jerjerrod list win the last Regionals..

I guess your experience will depend upon your local players and your own skill development and outlook.

If you are into highly competitive play and playing against power gamers who enjoy crafting the most OP list they can and will bring it every single time, then you may get bored or turned off.

If your opponents are not able to execute at 100% every game, or like to play lists that they find fun (i.e. - fit their playstyle; I love big dice pools) vs min-maxed then you should have a great experience.

Just now, GilmoreDK said:

Several high bid - high activation lists can still make it count against fighters.. It is about getting in there and kill the carrier... Trouble is if the Flotillas act as carriers through relay...

My D+O Death or Liberty list uses the Liberty to attempt and trap several flotillas and kill them at medium to close range. That is my counter.

I missed all the hullabaloo. Can someone link me to the list and what happened?

Just now, Lyraeus said:

My D+O Death or Liberty list uses the Liberty to attempt and trap several flotillas and kill them at medium to close range. That is my counter.

Madine + Engine Techs + H9s on the Liberty?

Just now, GilmoreDK said:

Madine + Engine Techs + H9s on the Liberty?

Nope. Mon Karen, Intel Officer, Leading Shots, Gunnery Teams, Nav Team, and XI7's (to give it a general use)

Expensive and I don't think it will work but we shall see.

1 hour ago, Lyraeus said:

Nope. Mon Karen, Intel Officer, Leading Shots, Gunnery Teams, Nav Team, and XI7's (to give it a general use)

Expensive and I don't think it will work but we shall see.

Mon Karren and XI7 overlap, in that often what Mon Karen boils down to against large ships is a slightly improved XI7 (they brace but now cannot redirect). Intel Officer could work with just the XI7 as it works in other builds. Strip the brace on a first shot and punch through with the second, but I think it too conflicts with the basic principle of how Mon Karen works as a title. Mon Karen really wants an extremely lean load-out, which benefits you in being able to fit other units into your list.

Most of these little trends do not last long, I wouldn't worry.

3 hours ago, Darth_Mahler said:

I missed all the hullabaloo. Can someone link me to the list and what happened?

Lyraeus has this weird quirk where he believes we all remember his lists by nickname and content.

Spoilers: we don't. It causes confusion.

A few things to understand about Armada, first, it is not X-wing. It is a small game for FFG and doesn't receive anywhere near the attention FFG gives X-Wing. Don't expect regular FQAs.

Second, squadrons are part of Armada. Go watch Rogue run if you want to see what an Armada battle is suppose to look like.

Third the Flotillas have provided a negative game experience since they came out and have dominated worlds the past two times. And yes, anyone that hasn't played Armada before can just watch one of the past two finals and see this very clearly.

Forth, this Flotilla problem may get addressed in Wave 6. If not, this game is in trouble, since FFG seems to take the "let them play" attitude toward this game. They took a similar approach to Netrunner until it hit their sales hard on that game. Only then did changes come.

6 hours ago, Caldias said:

While I know what you mean, I don't think it should be up to the player base to decide what is okay to take. Any game you can have a friendly agreement not to take X, but ultimately the game developers should be the ones taking measures. Just taking "fun" stuff will lead to players who don't want to keep losing to seek an edge within the confines of the rules, in my experience.

The good news is that FFG genuinely cares about their games. I had a short conversation with Mr. Gernes himself, and it was very clear to me he is passionate about this game and, in his own words, "I just want to make sure the game is fun."

Anything else interesting in that conversation with Mr. Gernes?

1 hour ago, mcworrell said:

Anything else interesting in that conversation with Mr. Gernes?

My understanding is he is a rather tight lipped fellow unless you know the password.

5 hours ago, Vergilius said:

Mon Karren and XI7 overlap, in that often what Mon Karen boils down to against large ships is a slightly improved XI7 (they brace but now cannot redirect). Intel Officer could work with just the XI7 as it works in other builds. Strip the brace on a first shot and punch through with the second, but I think it too conflicts with the basic principle of how Mon Karen works as a title. Mon Karen really wants an extremely lean load-out, which benefits you in being able to fit other units into your list.

Having 4 other units already and liking the effect Mon Karen has on ships with 3+ different types of tokens, XI7's assists in pushing damage through once the brace is gone or for those ships that have a redirect but no brace.

I was apart of the original discussion on this when we first saw what Mon Karen did. I understand this all well.

3 hours ago, Snipafist said:

Lyraeus has this weird quirk where he believes we all remember his lists by nickname and content.

Spoilers: we don't. It causes confusion.

I also have this annoying habit of placing them all on the sub thread bit if you want to know one of them just ask.

The last two lists (D+O Liberty or Death and D+O Lightning Quick) are still on page 1

3 hours ago, mcworrell said:

Anything else interesting in that conversation with Mr. Gernes?

It was just a super brief thing. He just happened to be walking around, talking to someone else, then stepped over and introduced himself, and I was like oh yeah I emailed you a couple times about rules. That's about the extent of it. I thanked him for making this great game and that's when he said he just wants to make sure it's fun.