ok If it true the HWK cheap onl go a 1 game loss and still made the cut then FFG have a serious problem. There was a German player who got a 1 year all ffg events ban for the same thing ....... but if you are American at worlds its ok to cheat or what ??????????
he should ´get at least the same punishment
FFG double standard with cheats...
You don't know the details of why either call was made. Quit polluting the forums with infinite whining.
Thing is, with the German player the intent was clear. His opponent went to the bathroom, he took the chance. Here he took his dial in the same motion that revealed it and might have subconciously changed it seeing just how wrong his move was.
The real issue here is the treatment of the player who got cheated. FFG should compensate for his travel and admission cost and also apologize with something. A custom set of templates that says "We are sorry" would be ideal.
both cases are the player changed their dial in the middle of a turn.
In the case with M.B.(the german player, who i know personally) he posted the video himself from a low level tournament
But at worlds a higher level of scrutiny and consequence should be set. The have sent the signal its ok to cheat at world
I don't know anything about the German player because I was not present in the community then. So I cannot comment on what he did or what punishment he received.
I DO feel, however, that this worlds incident should have been addressed more harshly with a stiffer consequence. At minimum, a disqualification and ejection from the main event. Let him play pick up games or anywhere he isn't mucking with rankings.
Intent should NEVER matter - it was done, it was manipulated with, the cheater cheated - intent or not, maliciousness, discard all that - there was cheating, punishment must be dealt to the cheater and the guy who got cheated on should get his score adjusted.
This was truly poorly handled by FFG and shows a lack of care on their part, a lack of understanding too.
Cheaters must not be allowed to ruin others' gaming and FFG just allowed it, its too late for the victim.
27 minutes ago, Kalandros said:Intent should NEVER matter - it was done, it was manipulated with, the cheater cheated - intent or not, maliciousness, discard all that - there was cheating, punishment must be dealt to the cheater and the guy who got cheated on should get his score adjusted.
This was truly poorly handled by FFG and shows a lack of care on their part, a lack of understanding too.
Cheaters must not be allowed to ruin others' gaming and FFG just allowed it, its too late for the victim.
yeap
2 hours ago, shotbyscott said:There was a German player who got a 1 year all ffg events ban for the same thing ....... but if you are American at worlds its ok to cheat or what ?????????
Lol, are you serious? Because the cheater yesterday was an American and not German, that's why he essentially only received a slap on the wrist. SMH
7 minutes ago, Darth Onyx said:Lol, are you serious? Because the cheater yesterday was an American and not German, that's why he essentially only received a slap on the wrist. SMH
yeap why not...... what reason is there other wise.
I'm almost positive the 1 year ban was not handed out until the situation had been reviewed days later. That may well still be coming, but such an action should be a measured response that the judges do not currently have time for.
3 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:Thing is, with the German player the intent was clear. His opponent went to the bathroom, he took the chance. Here he took his dial in the same motion that revealed it and might have subconciously changed it seeing just how wrong his move was.
The real issue here is the treatment of the player who got cheated. FFG should compensate for his travel and admission cost and also apologize with something. A custom set of templates that says "We are sorry" would be ideal.
The guy at worlds didn't do it in the same motion he revealed. He picked it up before his opponent had even moved his ship, and well before it was time to reveal the hwks maneuver. And how does it matter whether he changed it when it was time to reveal or while the opponent is away? Cheating is cheating
Look, I understand that people want to see the wronged player compensated. The question arises in the how. For an example, I'm a huge college football fan, back in 2004 the USC Trojans won the national title. They were later found to have given benefits to a player that made him ineligible for college sports. As a penalty they had to forfeit the championship. They have a game loss slotted in that game. The opponent was not awarded a win for a game they did not win and none of the other three remaining undefeated teams that had an valid claim to have been included in that game got no benefit from it either. When teams are found to have not played fairly in football they are retroactively given a game loss, no one else is given a game win. As bad as it is this is the only truly fair way to do it. When someone cheats, or plays dishonestly then they are screwing over far more than their opponent and far more than can be realistically corrected if and when they are caught. Sorry, hate it for the guy that it happened to and all the others who it affected.....but what are we supposed to do? Throw him out and have everyone else reset and start the tournament over? That's no good, because now you have already played that guy you played before and now that outcome will be effected. Even if the time restraints could allow that to happen. I'm sorry but when someone cheats we all lose. That's just the way it is my friends.
2 minutes ago, Vykk Draygo said:Look, I understand that people want to see the wronged player compensated. The question arises in the how. For an example, I'm a huge college football fan, back in 2004 the USC Trojans won the national title. They were later found to have given benefits to a player that made him ineligible for college sports. As a penalty they had to forfeit the championship. They have a game loss slotted in that game. The opponent was not awarded a win for a game they did not win and none of the other three remaining undefeated teams that had an valid claim to have been included in that game got no benefit from it either. When teams are found to have not played fairly in football they are retroactively given a game loss, no one else is given a game win. As bad as it is this is the only truly fair way to do it. When someone cheats, or plays dishonestly then they are screwing over far more than their opponent and far more than can be realistically corrected if and when they are caught. Sorry, hate it for the guy that it happened to and all the others who it affected.....but what are we supposed to do? Throw him out and have everyone else reset and start the tournament over? That's no good, because now you have already played that guy you played before and now that outcome will be effected. Even if the time restraints could allow that to happen. I'm sorry but when someone cheats we all lose. That's just the way it is my friends.
It's one thing when the cheating is discovered later. This was discovered *during the game*, at which time it makes perfect sense for them to be given a loss for that game and the opponent to get the win (as if the cheater had conceded or no-show)
5 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:It's one thing when the cheating is discovered later. This was discovered *during the game*, at which time it makes perfect sense for them to be given a loss for that game and the opponent to get the win (as if the cheater had conceded or no-show)
I agree entirely, however it wasn't handled that way. So all we are left with is retroactively. That's my point, what can be changed now that's fair?....
nothing. Sorry but it's true.
2 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:Here he took his dial in the same motion that revealed it and might have subconciously changed it seeing just how wrong his move was.
Uh, that's a lot to assume to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Unless you habitually change your dials before you move, I can't see how you could possibly do this subconsciously without intentional thought.
7 minutes ago, Vykk Draygo said:I agree entirely, however it wasn't handled that way. So all we are left with is retroactively. That's my point, what can be changed now that's fair?....
nothing. Sorry but it's true.
Could still have given the cheater the loss and give mike the 100-0 win and adjust the top 64 for day 2 from there. Or dq the cheater completely, give mike the win and adjust. Dunno what mov mike got in there game to say how much it would have boosted him up, but even if he still didn't make day 2 SOMEONE else would have. Now that day 2 is already in progress there's really nothing to do and ffg totally screwed up
9 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:Could still have given the cheater the loss and give mike the 100-0 win and adjust the top 64 for day 2 from there. Or dq the cheater completely, give mike the win and adjust. Dunno what mov mike got in there game to say how much it would have boosted him up, but even if he still didn't make day 2 SOMEONE else would have. Now that day 2 is already in progress there's really nothing to do and ffg totally screwed up
I believe you and I are really on the same page, I would have preferred for the guy to have been DQ'd when it was brought to their attention BEFORE the next match had started. My point was more to all the people who are saying things should have been retroactively changed. There is no way humanly possible for that to happen, shy of throwing the guy out and replaying all the games, which of course would affect those outcomes as well. If that were even possible. What happened cannot be changed, had the guy played by the rules or FFG made a decision that most of us believe they should have then things could have been made right. We are quite past that point now.
The Marshal could have looked at the video from yesterday and made him ineligible for play today. That way a legitimate player isn't out of the cut.
What should have happened when the cheating infraction was found out was he should have been DQ'd right then and there and then the opponent should have been given a win with 150 MOV.
There are too many repercussions from not doing this that have now occurred that have rankled the community:
1) the cheated on player now has a game loss attributed to his score and (i believe) he failed to make the cut.
2) The cheater makes the cut and pushes out a non-cheating player.
3) the cheater still gets all the swag for making the second day.
49 minutes ago, Vykk Draygo said:I believe you and I are really on the same page, I would have preferred for the guy to have been DQ'd when it was brought to their attention BEFORE the next match had started. My point was more to all the people who are saying things should have been retroactively changed. There is no way humanly possible for that to happen, shy of throwing the guy out and replaying all the games, which of course would affect those outcomes as well. If that were even possible. What happened cannot be changed, had the guy played by the rules or FFG made a decision that most of us believe they should have then things could have been made right. We are quite past that point now.
You're dead wrong. This came to light and FFG has had several chances to make it right and they have failed at every single turn. They failed to award the cheated the win. They failed to boot the cheater from the tourney after the fact. Even after all that and the intense outrage coming from the community they had the night (Saturday) to think about it and stuck with their idiotic ruling allowing the cheater to continue on in the World Championships. Their were many points at which this wasn't water under the bridge and FFG failed them repeatedly. Btw the 65th place person who should be playing today is Audrey Carstens and she deserves that spot.
9 minutes ago, charlesanakin said:You're dead wrong. This came to light and FFG has had several chances to make it right and they have failed at every single turn. They failed to award the cheated the win. They failed to boot the cheater from the tourney after the fact. Even after all that and the intense outrage coming from the community they had the night (Saturday) to think about it and stuck with their idiotic ruling allowing the cheater to continue on in the World Championships. Their were many points at which this wasn't water under the bridge and FFG failed them repeatedly. Btw the 65th place person who should be playing today is Audrey Carstens and she deserves that spot.
Actually, no, I'm not dead wrong. FFG made a decision and no matter how many people are pissed off about it or how many people it affected there is no way possible to change outcomes from a decision that has already been made. Unless of course you have a time machine, in which case I'd like to borrow the keys, I have far better uses for it than fixing these results.
1 minute ago, Vykk Draygo said:Actually, no, I'm not dead wrong. FFG made a decision and no matter how many people are pissed off about it or how many people it affected there is no way possible to change outcomes from a decision that has already been made. Unless of course you have a time machine, in which case I'd like to borrow the keys, I have far better uses for it than fixing these results.
During this process his process they've had several chances to have a better outcome and they have blown everyone. And in point of fact they could still strip the cheater of his wins. Not give him prizes, ban him from tournament play for a time, etc... it's not done.
1 minute ago, charlesanakin said:During this process his process they've had several chances to have a better outcome and they have blown everyone. And in point of fact they could still strip the cheater of his wins. Not give him prizes, ban him from tournament play for a time, etc... it's not done.
No one has said it was done, I'm saying that for the course of the games that have been played and will be played tonight, it's done. They made their decision. He's still playing. If you'd bother to read the posts above the one you quoted then you'd see I thought he should have been immediately disqualified. He wasn't. There is no way that decision can be changed.
6 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:Thing is, with the German player the intent was clear. His opponent went to the bathroom, he took the chance. Here he took his dial in the same motion that revealed it and might have subconciously changed it seeing just how wrong his move was.
The real issue here is the treatment of the player who got cheated. FFG should compensate for his travel and admission cost and also apologize with something. A custom set of templates that says "We are sorry" would be ideal.
Honestly, from a business perspective, that wouldn't be enough.
He should have his expenses for travel covered for both this year AND next year. As well as any free swag that may be appropriate like templates. On top of a profuse apology and a promise to step up their judging standards for next year.
If any other business made such a colossal mistake with their customers, I guarantee that people would lose their jobs and careers would be ruined. That's one issue that gaming companies have that I have seen fairly consistently. No other industry gets away with treating their customers the way some of these gaming companies have done, either through mistakes or outright malicious behavior.
This cheater should also be banned from some number of events. Maybe not lifetime, but I would say 5 years or so would be a fair number. If it happens again, then it becomes a lifetime ban.
Edited by BadMotivatorJust now, BadMotivator said:Honestly, from a business perspective, that wouldn't be enough.
He should have his expenses for travel covered for both this year AND next year. As well as any free swag that may be appropriate like templates. On top of a profuse apology and a promise to step up their judging standards for next year.
If any other business made such a colossal mistake with their customers, I guarantee that people would lose their jobs and careers would be ruined. That's one issue that gaming companies have that I have seen fairly consistently. No other industry gets away with treating their customers the way some of these gaming companies have done, either through mistakes or outright malicious behavior.
They appareantly are resolving the issue with the player in question, so for the moment, unless he speaks up about being screwed over on that resolution, I will consider this done. We do not need to know what exactly went down as long as it was statisfactory for Michael.