On 5/7/2017 at 6:21 AM, Drasnighta said:

The Disappointing thing about this (to me) is that a Game loss was awarded. But it was his next game. Not the game he Cheated in. Which he won .

The Cheating Player progressed into the end and "Day 2" of competition with a 5-2 Record last night.

The Cheated Player Went home with a 3-4 record... When a 4-3 Record with the Boost from his Match being Forfeited in his favour? Would have gotten him over the line to play in the final day as well .

It just seems sad to see the Cheater has prospered more-so than the Cheated in this case...

Unfortunately, as a TO, the rules are not "Clear" in the way that none of the actual charges / penalties are listed, only hinted at and suggested... So in the end, respect the TO . Their decision is their decision. I always hope that I, personally, am Fair and Balanced and consider not only current consequences, but future consequences of the situation in my calls - but we're all mortal. Asking us to be more than that is setting us up to fail.

True, but the end result was that player did not make the top cut. Nor was he found in any of the top swiss rankings. So the cheater didn't do that well. However the cheated player should have had his score adjusted after that one. I guess Tome isn't capable of judge point modifications in which maybe the DQ would have been more appropriate. A judge needs not restrain themselves for the convenience of the offending party. However that appears to be the case.

13 hours ago, Kerg12 said:

What would be the punishment for someone who purposely throws a game in order to give someone else the points (usually 2 friends playing in the last round/s). They usually figure out that both cant make top 4 soon and that one needs the 10-1 to win.

13 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Furthermore, as quoted above - there is no set strict penalties in the tournament regulations - all penalties for the current tournament (hence why it stops at ejection) are at the Judge's discretion.

Howver, beyond that - there is the FFG Suspension List, and your ability to submit circumstances to FFG even after the fact , where they will research and determine if said person is barred from OP Events.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/op/spolicy/

You're right, there is TO discretion.

Imagine that at the end of day one in a two day tournament, somebody hands you footage that clearly shows somebody cheated to advance into day two. You can clearly see that the player has changed their actions to radically change the outcome of a decisive turn to their favor.

What do you do?

(Hint: there is only one acceptable answer, and nearly everyone has spent thousands of dollars to attend your event, including the other player and every player who will be affected by your decision).

2 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

What do you do?

(Hint: there is only one acceptable answer).

On 7/5/2017 at 7:43 AM, ovinomanc3r said:

Exacty, that's the answer.

A player that cheats is not worth for someone else to ever play with him again, cheating goes against the very fundamentals of every game and someone who does that breaks the fun of this excellent and very fun games.

He should be banned for every future FFG tournament, I wouldn't want to play a guy who can do something like that even if it were in a friendly game

Given the kind of snippy one liners the title begs for, such as;

"If you ain't cheating you ain't trying"

or

"dont get caught"

I'm both proud of and incredibly disappointed in this discussion.

27 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

Exacty, that's the answer.

A player that cheats is not worth for someone else to ever play with him again, cheating goes against the very fundamentals of every game and someone who does that breaks the fun of this excellent and very fun games.

He should be banned for every future FFG tournament, I wouldn't want to play a guy who can do something like that even if it were in a friendly game

Oooh you are so cute! You think Vader banned Needa, don't you?

?

47 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Oooh you are so cute! You think Vader banned Needa, don't you?

?

Of course, Needa was "banned". What else could have happened to him?

19 hours ago, Kerg12 said:

What would be the punishment for someone who purposely throws a game in order to give someone else the points (usually 2 friends playing in the last round/s). They usually figure out that both cant make top 4 soon and that one needs the 10-1 to win.

Unless there is a rule I'm not aware of that says "try as hard as you can to win," this wouldn't be cheating. "Unsportsmanlike conduct," possibly.

If it was me, I'd strip both players of their tournament points. But only if I was really, REALLY sure that something was up.

11 minutes ago, JgzMan said:

Unless there is a rule I'm not aware of that says "try as hard as you can to win," this wouldn't be cheating. "Unsportsmanlike conduct," possibly.

If it was me, I'd strip both players of their tournament points. But only if I was really, REALLY sure that something was up.

1) Cheating is a Subset of Unsporting Conduct.

2) Its actually covered under that heading:

Tournament Regulations, Page 5:

Unsporting Conduct

Players are expected to behave in a mature and considerate manner and to play within the rules and not abuse them. This prohibits intentionally stalling a game for time, placing components with excessive force, inappropriate behavior, treating an opponent with a lack of courtesy or respect, cheating, etc. Collusion among players to manipulate scoring is expressly forbidden.

The organizer, at his or her sole discretion, may remove players from the tournament for unsporting conduct

(Emphasis mine)

Ah, well. That would be a rule I'm not aware of.

I'd still probably do the same thing, though.

There is also further reading in the Fundamental Event Document (which is somewhat pertinent to this situation as well)

Unsporting Conduct

FFG OP exists to create a fair, safe, and inclusive environment for all participants. Unsporting conduct violates one or more of these elements which are critical to the integrity of an event.

Intentional or habitual violations of event integrity could result in investigation, pursuant to the FFG Organized Play Participant Suspension Policy.

The marshal role holds the responsibility of being the final authority on whether unsporting conduct has occurred.

The organizer is responsible for determining whether the unsporting conduct was severe enough to warrant disqualification of a participant.

Unsporting conduct is not limited to occurrences which happen during an event. It can extend to the time before and after the event, as well as digital spaces.

Unsporting behavior includes:

• Cheating

• Collusion

• Bribery

• Stalling

• Behaving in a manner which could be interpreted by a reasonable person as bullying, harassment, belligerent, stalking, vulgar, obscene, threatening, or hurtful

• Knowingly lying to an event leader

• Encroaching on a participant’s personal privacy or safety

• Purposely violating other behavior guidelines at a venue

• Repeatedly refusing to abide by the instructions of an event leader

(Specifically, the note on Digital Spaces)

On 5/8/2017 at 10:15 AM, Madaghmire said:

I assume that FFG will hook player 2 up with some schwag. Its pretty much the only solution. Sucks that it ****** their tournament up but a good effort to compensate goes a long way in alleviating an initially bad experience, even to turn it into an overall positive.

As for cheaters, IMO expulsion from OP events, for a period of one year for first time offenders. Lifetime on repeat.

It is being reported that the cheated player was taken care of by FFG. I assume he got most of the Worlds prizes and maybe even some of the past OP stuff.

17 minutes ago, Cusm said:

It is being reported that the cheated player was taken care of by FFG. I assume he got most of the Worlds prizes and maybe even some of the past OP stuff.

Good. I hope it goes a long way towards making this otherwise regrettable experience an overall positive story for him.

On 5/7/2017 at 1:47 PM, Drasnighta said:

A New response from FFG on the issue

(Basically, they're doing their best, and they're continuing to discuss things with both parties - in private )

And above all else - Agree or Disagree with the Decision - it is the TO's decision to make .

To Whit:

Hello everyone!

There has been a lot of discussion about this incident, and we thank you all for your passion and enthusiasm.

Issues like this are never easy, nor are they as simple as they appear from afar. In this particular case, our judges and TO’s investigated the matter and came to a conclusion. After speaking with both players involved, they came to a determination and issued a penalty. I understand that many members of this community might disagree with their assessment, and that’s fine. This is all very subjective.

Situations like this take time to resolve. When something like this occurs, we are not able to rush to quick judgment. That’s a luxury the Internet has that we do not. We have an obligation to do our due diligence, collect all the facts, and then issue a verdict.

Unfortunately, the tournament does not stop moving forward while we’re investigating. Therefore, after the decision was made, the only choice was to issue a penalty to Player 1 on a future match. After the meal break, this was then communicated to Player 2 in the middle of his next pairing. Regretfully, this interrupted Player 2’s match in a negative way. The reality is, there are hundreds of players here playing dozens of matches, and in that chaos, our lines of communication were not efficient enough. As a result, Player 2's experience yesterday was not what we strive for.

We have been, and continue to be, in contact with both players. Please know that our first priority is to run a fair tournament, and we work very hard at that. Our second priority is that everyone has a positive experience at Worlds. We stand by our decision regarding Player 1. As for Player 2, we are working with him to make sure his experience at Worlds is not hampered by this.

However, as a matter of policy, those discussions between FFG and our players are private. We do not disclose our discussions with individual players to the community at large. Rest assured that we are taking steps to find the most equitable solution we can for the impact this had on Player 2's experience.

Thank you for your interest and discussion on this matter. From our end, we consider the issue closed and we look forward to seeing the X-Wing World Championships tonight.

Please remember that we have a zero tolerance policy for online harassment, doxxing, and bullying of any of our community members.

Thank you again. Enjoy the final day of Worlds!

Thanks for posting this Dras, I likely would never have seen it otherwise.

As a previous forum admin and club runner, this is absolutely right- punishments are personal issues, not public displays. Warnings can be public so one doesnt have to repeat the same thing over and over, but taking the time to make sure you are right, and dealing with the end in a professional and private manner should always be the goal when it comes time to issue a punishment.

This makes me very, very happy with FFG.

A statement from the accused was read on Gold Squadron podcast. Here you go.