7 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

Excellent response.

Unless you plan at attending a major tournament at the cost of hundreds of dollars in the near future like I do.

I am now carefully considering if I should get a refund on my purchases.

I don't think you need to worry mate, I'm certain this will be an isolated case and FFG will take a good hard look at their procedures and how to deal with such an event should it ever happen again.

Go to your events and have a blast ??

Just now, Drasnighta said:

As part of your considerations (as you are considering ) - are the events you are looking at attending specifically FFG-Run events?

The FFG National Championships at NoVa. Which I expect to be run according to the standard set here.

Where they just allowed a cheating player to advance to the second day cut while relegating out honest players. One of whom is the wife of a friend.

Just so we are clear, I just saw one of the most influential competition X-Wing players in northern California post to the regional X-Wing facebook group that he may be done with the game in light of this farce. This is a BFD and every X-Wing player I know is currently howling.

1 minute ago, thecactusman17 said:

The FFG National Championships at NoVa. Which I expect to be run according to the standard set here.

Where they just allowed a cheating player to advance to the second day cut while relegating out honest players. One of whom is the wife of a friend.

I was asking because - honestly, I don't know your situation I just feel that, already, a lot of TO's (like myself), who are not involved in with this situation at all are being put under additional pressure...

Careful consideration should always be taken when Money and Time are on the line, no doubt about that... And I applaud you for doing that... But are the same Judges going to be involved? because if they're not, then its not the same situation - and there's precedent where someone doing this in Germany got a years Ban (as apparently, Life bans are specifically prohibited under EU Human Rights Laws) . So its just the whole "clouding decisions with different situations."

Now, that being said - it could also be seen somewhat as a Protest, too - not supporting the FFG events anymore because of that sort of thing - and that's a legitimate position for one to take, too. Which, as you have just replied (while I'm typing) about the Prominent X-Wing Player in California bit - shows is legitimate.

I'm not disagreeing its a Big Deal...

But, as I said - I'm a TO myself. I have a vested interest in keeping people in competition, because basically, it keeps me in "Business" of sorts...

...

To be clear, I'm mostly rambling - I have no intent to chastise or change your mind or do anything of the sort - you are completely free to decide on what you wish given the circumstances as you see it... I'm just on my endless search to understand things, and I sincerely thank you for responding to my oddlish question

Reading in between the lines with no evidence, sounds like player two is going to get comped something because of the bad experience. Whether its a comped plane ticket or free merchandise, I think FFG is doing the right thing and making sure player 2 doesn't feel "cheated" by spending real dollars to go to worlds.

As for the cheater... how stupid do you have to be? You're being recorded and broadcasted live. I would of banned him and this is 'Merica where they'll sentence you to multiple life sentences... so I would of life time banned him twice just to drive the point home.

I appreciate that there is a different perspective between the needs of a TO and the needs of the players. i get that and I respect that.

However, given the level of egregiousness, and the fact that this directly affected the tournament scoring while allowing the cheating player to continue into the tournament and disqualifying honest players even after a full evening to review the footage was absolutely unconscionable on the part of any official especially in light of the tournament rules which explicitly state that this sort of behavior is expected to result in an immediate loss and potential ejection.

This is a terrible precedent that makes people think twice about going to these events. Not only was Player 2 cheated, every player who's standing was effected by Player 1 (even the ones who made it into the cut) has every right to be furious that this was allowed as it tarnishes every interaction with Player 1 for the duration of the event.

6 hours ago, Snipafist said:

Game loss and immediate ejection from the event. Player can return to events in the future, but if he's caught cheating again, banned for life.

Anyone who cheats at plastic spaceships has forgotten the face of his father.

This. FFG needs to have security at its events to escort people out of the building.

The real sad this is that X-wing depends on MOV and basically forces in a bye win for the guy that got cheated on. In the end, other people not involved in the match are affected by the cheating due to the MOV standings. It really screws up the whole of the tournament.

I think player 2 should have gotten player ones spot once they figured it all out and player 1 should have been disqualified.

First of all that guy should be thrown away form tuenament according the FFG rules. It doesnt matter if he do this once or twice.

We have one Guy in Poland that is cheating by changing orders and no one thrwow him away for that yet. It encourage him to do it more often. He know when people have close eye on him and when it happend (people wach on his hands)he always lands in the bottom of table. Many players here said that they dont care of this. Afther first time I catch him on this I announce to all organizators that I will never play with him. They give him 10:1 for that and it take me more angry for such behaviour (cheeting)

FFS....really?
Plastic spaceship game cheating?

I play this game to relax, laugh a bit, shoot the crap with fellow combat simulation players, roll some dice and just plain have fun.
I'm sorry if this sounds rough but cheating to me in these games is just plain pathetic.

What is the worst that happens if you lose?
If it means you and/or your family are going without something...well, maybe you shouldn't be playing in the first place...
You learn, you maybe laugh a bit(if you're like me and ram your own ships because you didn't activate in the right order), you play a game and don't have to worry about your next meal or if someone is going to kick in your door and hurt you or your family.
Hell, I'm envious of the guys and gals who get to play at Worlds but cheating to get there and there...would just ruin it all for me.

If I was the TO the cheating player would be done. Instant disqualification, please take your stuff and leave.
I'm not sure what I would do with the non-cheater. I would want to give him a win but at the same time, not sure how fair it would be to others playing other games.

Personally if i'd been the person in charge, said bozo would have had his ships taken from him and given to the other player and bozo would have been tossed out face-first. I'd sorely be tempted to not open the door before he was tossed...

2 hours ago, idiewell said:

Personally if i'd been the person in charge, said bozo would have had his ships taken from him and given to the other player and bozo would have been tossed out face-first. I'd sorely be tempted to not open the door before he was tossed...

Mental note :- never upset idiewell ?

7 hours ago, Ma22a said:

Mental note :- never upset idiewell ?

LOL. Nah you're safe. I don't get angry often, i just REALLY hate cheaters.

I assume that FFG will hook player 2 up with some schwag. Its pretty much the only solution. Sucks that it ****** their tournament up but a good effort to compensate goes a long way in alleviating an initially bad experience, even to turn it into an overall positive.

As for cheaters, IMO expulsion from OP events, for a period of one year for first time offenders. Lifetime on repeat.

Unfortunately, this is the entire guidelines we have regarding cheating:

Quote

Conduct
All tournament participants are expected to act in a respectful manner during a tournament. If players have a dispute during a competition and cannot resolve it themselves, they must call for a judge to resolve it and provide any rulings that are needed. All card interpretations during a tournament are a marshal’s responsibility, and he or she may overrule the FAQ when a mistake or error is discovered.

Unsporting Conduct
Players are expected to behave in a mature and considerate manner and to play within the rules and not abuse them. This prohibits intentionally stalling a game for time, placing components with excessive force, inappropriate behavior, treating an opponent with a lack of courtesy or respect, cheating, etc. Collusion among players to manipulate scoring is expressly forbidden. The organizer, at his or her sole discretion, may remove players from the tournament for unsporting conduct.

I suppose it is fortunate that we (collectively throughout FFG's games) haven't forced FFG to actually make more explicit rules yet. As we have seen in the past, FFG is pretty good about making new rules for all their games once they identify a problem with tournament play with one game. For better or worse. (Looking at you, Intentional Draws!)

I can't complain about adding rules only when it is realized they are needed. Back in the day, I ran a guild in an MMO, and the guild started with one and only one rule. "Don't be a jerk". As people figured out new and creative ways to break that rule, we added new and complicated rules to clarify what that one rule meant, and the various consequences of being a jerk. It is sad that the X-Wing community has to deal with that now. I'm not sure anyone really expected someone to cheat on a live stream, which created quite a bit of a delay to getting the cheating to the attention of the TO.

On the plus side, I think we'll see a lot better guidelines for consequences in the next tournament regulations.

1 Year OP suspension. Cheating should not be tolerated.

What would be the punishment for someone who purposely throws a game in order to give someone else the points (usually 2 friends playing in the last round/s). They usually figure out that both cant make top 4 soon and that one needs the 10-1 to win.

2 minutes ago, Kerg12 said:

What would be the punishment for someone who purposely throws a game in order to give someone else the points (usually 2 friends playing in the last round/s). They usually figure out that both cant make top 4 soon and that one needs the 10-1 to win.

Would be very difficult to prove this kind of thing.

Reminds me of the problem they were having in x-wing for a while where players would intentionally draw so they could make the final cut.

9 minutes ago, Democratus said:

Would be very difficult to prove this kind of thing.

Reminds me of the problem they were having in x-wing for a while where players would intentionally draw so they could make the final cut.

It would be, but thats why I'm wondering now that store championship season is upon us. Last time we had an accusation of it happening and the losing player said they just played terrible. So how could we prevent or prove it is happening?

Just now, Kerg12 said:

It would be, but thats why I'm wondering now that store championship season is upon us. Last time we had an accusation of it happening and the losing player said they just played terrible. So how could we prevent or prove it is happening?

I think you just can't. At a certain point you just have to give players the benefit of the doubt.

If there are players that are consistently abusive the community will figure it out.

Furthermore, as quoted above - there is no set strict penalties in the tournament regulations - all penalties for the current tournament (hence why it stops at ejection) are at the Judge's discretion.

Howver, beyond that - there is the FFG Suspension List, and your ability to submit circumstances to FFG even after the fact , where they will research and determine if said person is barred from OP Events.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/op/spolicy/

So, after being kicked from Armada, it seems Ben made his own way into X-Wing...

4 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

So, after being kicked from Armada, it seems Ben made his own way into X-Wing...

And now he's being kicked out of there-i guess he'll move to Imperial Assault next

Classic Ben, ruining every game he touches. @Vergilius

Lookout, chess, you're next!

Just now, Ardaedhel said:

Classic Ben, ruining every game he touches. @Vergilius

Lookout, chess, you're next!