Correct me if I'm wrong but there's the Tournament Organizer, a Marshall that I'm assuming to be the head judge and various judges prowling the floor. Don't you think it reasonable for the judges to wait until they could meet with the Marshall and review the stream before passing final judgement?

Don't get me wrong, I think cheating is pretty despicable and the cheater really must need an ego boost to even think about it let alone try it. But from the tone of some of these posts you were ready to hang the judges with the same rope reserved for the cheater. Calm down and wait for an official statement from FFG instead of going off the deep end relying on what amounts to hearsay. I referring to the punishment, not the fact he was cheating.

Dear internet,

This thread is awful (parts of it). Also, you who made a meme with the persons full name and a photograph of him? F U

10 minutes ago, FFGElena said:

it was not done maliciously.

PLEASE. So he did change his dial by accident and by accident he did change it to a perfect fit maneuver. Yeap does not look malicious at all.

Gimme a break here....

I feel for the TO's, having been one for FASA back in the late 90's and running their World BTech Championships at GenCon, and then with PP doing WM/Hordes. Cheating happens, some folks have to cheat to win, I guess to make themselves feel better, idk, but what I do know is banning someone is usually not good business, it will get back to folks who will scream to high heaven that's its unfair and we'll never play your game again blah blah blah. From the FFG person post I think again imho they handled it right, everyone else has already spread the word so this person should he ever go to events again will be watched like a hawk by other players and TO'S. And as a former TO I always encouraged folks to report possible cheating, it ruins the event for everyone.

17 minutes ago, FFGElena said:

Hello everyone!

We'd like to clear up what happened at today's World Championships. As you know, it appeared that a player had changed their dial. After looking into the matter, we determined that although an infraction did occur, it was not done maliciously. Due to the seriousness of the infraction and the potential for abuse, however, we issued a penalty in the form of a loss for that player during the subsequent round. We thank you for your concern, and at this time, we consider this issue resolved as all parties are aware of the ramifications should further infractions occur. Please remember that these forums are intended as a place for positive and productive conversation, and we ask that everyone please be respectful of all competitors and forum members.

Thank you again from everyone on the FFG OP Team.

Unreal.

13 minutes ago, Ghostrider58 said:

I feel for the TO's, having been one for FASA back in the late 90's and running their World BTech Championships at GenCon, and then with PP doing WM/Hordes. Cheating happens, some folks have to cheat to win, I guess to make themselves feel better, idk, but what I do know is banning someone is usually not good business, it will get back to folks who will scream to high heaven that's its unfair and we'll never play your game again blah blah blah. From the FFG person post I think again imho they handled it right, everyone else has already spread the word so this person should he ever go to events again will be watched like a hawk by other players and TO'S. And as a former TO I always encouraged folks to report possible cheating, it ruins the event for everyone.

As a long time FASA BTech gamer (I have every box set/book they and Catalyst has produced) and also a former 40K/WM/Hordes gamer, I found that 40K/WM/Hordes has been much worse. The cheating plus the cost of those systems finally made me quit and sell off everything I had. I have been playing Runewars and hope it does not happen to that system.

Yes, cheating happens and it sucks that this is the way people must play.

As far as X-Wing, I have seen it many times at the local FLGS level but never thought I would hear about this BS move at the Worlds.

@FFG: How was it determined that the cheating was done without malice?

How has your response shown the appropriate level of respect for the 3rd-round opponent who was wronged in this instance? Or for the other couple hundred players present that day?

Should I, as a competitive X-Wing player, feel assured that your response will help prevent this sort of situation from happening in the future?

23 minutes ago, Calibri Garamond said:

Dear internet,

This thread is awful (parts of it). Also, you who made a meme with the persons full name and a photograph of him? F U

25 minutes ago, Calibri Garamond said:

Dear internet,

This thread is awful (parts of it). Also, you who made a meme with the persons full name and a photograph of him? F U

Call me crazy, but perhaps the guy shouldn't have cheated in the first place?

Also, how does one cheat without malice? I'm pretty sure the two go hand in hand.

Yes, the guy cheated in a game. You got me convinced. Let's kill his dog or whatever...

1 minute ago, Calibri Garamond said:

Yes, the guy cheated in a game. You got me convinced. Let's kill his dog or whatever...

No, but we can at least laugh at a guy.

*Sigh*... Really saddened by all this.

All in all, the best scenario in this case is to DQ the guy the instant the cheating was known full well to have occurred and give match wins to all of his previous opponents, end of story. I think part of the issue here is FFG's software isn't capable of going back and giving a loss/win to someone who they already gave a win/loss. If they simply give the DQ, say sorry, then point him to his way out, It allows the guy to go home and take a breather and figure out some things about life instead of allowing him to continue on in a tournament where he is now public enemy number one. Seriously, that option is best for him AND the community. I know if I was in his scenario, I would want to get out of there as fast as possible, sell my entire collection, and never show my face at an x-wing event again. As is now, due to the amount of funds he has probably put towards this, he likely feels obligated to go through with the whole thing, but that really isn't in his best interest. He just needs to get his face out of there and take some time away from the game at the very least.

5 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

*Sigh*... Really saddened by all this.

All in all, the best scenario in this case is to DQ the guy the instant the cheating was known full well to have occurred and give match wins to all of his previous opponents, end of story. I think part of the issue here is FFG's software isn't capable of going back and giving a loss/win to someone who they already gave a win/loss. If they simply give the DQ, say sorry, then point him to his way out, It allows the guy to go home and take a breather and figure out some things about life instead of allowing him to continue on in a tournament where he is now public enemy number one. Seriously, that option is best for him AND the community. I know if I was in his scenario, I would want to get out of there as fast as possible, sell my entire collection, and never show my face at an x-wing event again. As is now, due to the amount of funds he has probably put towards this, he likely feels obligated to go through with the whole thing, but that really isn't in his best interest. He just needs to get his face out of there and take some time away from the game at the very least.

The question is, given how most of us on the forums/watch the stream know what happened...... But, what about the people there? Do all the other players know?

2 minutes ago, emmjay said:

The question is, given how most of us on the forums/watch the stream know what happened...... But, what about the people there? Do all the other players know?

Considering a player there posted a meme featuring the players image and his name (seriously not cool, even in this scenario, btw), I'm going to say word is spreading fast enough.

27 minutes ago, Calibri Garamond said:

Yes, the guy cheated in a game. You got me convinced. Let's kill his dog or whatever...

Oh give the hyperbole a rest. Nobody is calling for his death. They are calling for a just consequence to cheating at the premier event for X-Wing. And rightly so, most feel that hasn't been met.

3 hours ago, Larky Bobble said:

I wouldn´ t kick him out of the tourney, given the investment he probably made to be there, but it is a pretty poor decision to not to give the opponent the win.

That's no excuse. Let's just say this was a bike race in France that you won but later were discovered to have cheated in the process; you get stripped of your victory and see your name drug through the mud. Changing the ONE piece of secret information that you know and your opponent doesn't is probably the biggest violation of the spirit of this game with maybe loaded dice being close and with the realization that there is a mechanic to deal with that. An ejection could be merited and what he "invested" to get there really shouldn't matter; besides the "investment" to play can vary tremendously with a local person just missing out on the day or whatever.

44 minutes ago, Vitalis said:

PLEASE. So he did change his dial by accident and by accident he did change it to a perfect fit maneuver. Yeap does not look malicious at all.

Gimme a break here....

Isn't amazing how these "accidents" always seem to turn out to be miraculous or otherwise incredibly insightful moves? It seems to me that a good portion of "accidents" involves getting the wrong orientation for a dial or some other unfortunate result instead of taking what could be a questionable move and having it turn into something great.

I suspect the reason FFG doesn't want the backside of dials "marked" in any way is that then it could make face down manipulation even easier.

3 minutes ago, StevenO said:

I suspect the reason FFG doesn't want the backside of dials "marked" in any way is that then it could make face down manipulation even easier.

First I've heard of this. I have small labels from a label maker on the back of my dials so I don't pick up an opponent's dial and so I know which dial goes with which ship. If this is against the rules, I guess I need to peel them off. I've only played in two tournaments, but no one has ever mentioned this to me.

You're allowed to mark ownership.

14 minutes ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

Oh give the hyperbole a rest. Nobody is calling for his death. They are calling for a just consequence to cheating at the premier event for X-Wing. And rightly so, most feel that hasn't been met.

There is a differense between sarcasm and hyperbole.

Look, I don't mind the call for a DQ. I have a problem with Marinealver publishing his name and calling him an *******.

Just now, Calibri Garamond said:

There is a differense between sarcasm and hyperbole.

Look, I don't mind the call for a ban. I have a problem with Marinealver publishing his name and calling him an *******.

You should have a problem that he blatantly cheated in the first place, disrespecting his opponents, other participants and tournaments organizers.

1 hour ago, FFGElena said:

Hello everyone!

We'd like to clear up what happened at today's World Championships. As you know, it appeared that a player had changed their dial. After looking into the matter, we determined that although an infraction did occur, it was not done maliciously. Due to the seriousness of the infraction and the potential for abuse, however, we issued a penalty in the form of a loss for that player during the subsequent round. We thank you for your concern, and at this time, we consider this issue resolved as all parties are aware of the ramifications should further infractions occur. Please remember that these forums are intended as a place for positive and productive conversation, and we ask that everyone please be respectful of all competitors and forum members.

Thank you again from everyone on the FFG OP Team.

Not malicious my ***. It was blatant. all the evidence is right there. It's not like the dial flew into his hand by itself and made his thumb change the dial

I'm still confused about why FFG would think there was no malice in his dial change. I've watched the video and looked at the stills very closely. Here's what I think happened. I'm PURELY SPECULATING, but going off the information available.

when he reveals his dial for his HWK-290, it appears to show a 3 Left Bank (red). He changes it 2 moves clockwise so it shows 2 Right bank (white), which he then performs. Its important because Palob is the Attani feeder his Scouts. his original move doesnt make much sense since its Red and would allow no action. I'm guessing that he somehow chose the wrong move, or maybe his dial is loose? either way he didnt want the 3 bank so he changed it so what he wanted (or what he thought it SHOULD have been) which was 2 bank right. He gets the attani, lays down 3 tokens and carries on to win the match.

So either

A) he made the wrong choice and thus conspired to change his move. Malicious.

or

B) He *did* select 2 bank right but his loose dial somehow moved to 3 bank left and he simply moved it back to his original choice. THIS IS STILL CHEATING. if you have a loose dial, you need to tell someone.

1 minute ago, Calibri Garamond said:

There is a differense between sarcasm and hyperbole.

Look, I don't mind the call for a DQ. I have a problem with Marinealver publishing his name and calling him an *******.

His name was published at stream. Guy himself just showed entire world that he is cheating while being recognisable by both name and appearance... you have to be really slow thinking to cheat on stream.

And yeap cheaters are *******, so i dont see a problem in calling banana a banana here.

7 minutes ago, Piscopas said:

First I've heard of this. I have small labels from a label maker on the back of my dials so I don't pick up an opponent's dial and so I know which dial goes with which ship. If this is against the rules, I guess I need to peel them off. I've only played in two tournaments, but no one has ever mentioned this to me.

You're allowed to mark dials for ownership as mentioned but there is (or at least was) this line: " However, players should be careful not to mark the backs of their maneuver dials in any way that may indicate to their opponents what maneuvers they have selected ."

Now that may say you shouldn't mark dials so your opponent can know what maneuver you've selected but it shouldn't take much to realize that if YOU know what maneuver is selected just by looking at the back of your dial it would be a LOT easier to change it without ever even needing to "pick up and look at" it. Some may "fidget" so well they have no trouble turning a dial X places and know what they're doing but if you have a visual confirmation it would be so much easier.

5 minutes ago, vyrago said:

So either

A) he made the wrong choice and thus conspired to change his move. Malicious.

or

B) He *did* select 2 bank right but his loose dial somehow moved to 3 bank left and he simply moved it back to his original choice. THIS IS STILL CHEATING. if you have a loose dial, you need to tell someone.

This.

If something is not as expected, you need to speak up as soon as you know. I've seen it happen casually playing, and we've always managed to work it out by being honest if there's a part failure.

Edit: the policy should be at top level events that once the first dial is face up, no dial may be touched until both players are observing the next reveal.