This will be my first LCG or CCG for that matter. I'm very excited to be in at the start of this journey

48 minutes ago, Fumo said:

Two points here.

1) Sometimes players were effectively forced to play this way.

If i don't find LCG version interesting but i like L5R i still have to play it? Hell no. So if you don't like cardpool/options - just don't play instead forcing yourself to do things you don't like.

48 minutes ago, Fumo said:

2) If someone does enjoy playing solitaire style decks, that's fine, but they can't realistically expect others to find it fun to play against, at least not for long. Even if forcing interaction makes the game less fun for the solitaire fan, well, tough. To have any longevity the game needs to be fun for both players.

So you assume that making decisions playing against honor deck wasn't fun or exciting for anyone? Really?

To be honest a true completely noninteractive, solitaire decks (honor and even military one if we talk about total control) were a visible minority. Nearly all decks had to be built to face some kind of interactivity. Throwing your personal Attack Phase through the window doesn't mean you play inside of empty vacuum. Most of time meta just dictated many things fe you couldn't built whole deck about "gain 2 honor" actions only, because any blitz deck would destroy it in a second.

And you really live in dreamland if you think that another FFG game will be free from non-interactive, combo or frustrating heavy control or NPE decks. Take a look at Netrunner, AGoT and even in true military, conflict oriented Conquest, after second Deluxe appeared a combo Necron deck that didn't give a s*** about whatever your opponent do. It just had to dig to some cards and launch chain of reactions that destroyed OP Warlord wherever he was.

---

As i wrote earlier in other threads this new game is completely new one in term of design and playability comparing to CCG. I just want to point out, that in thread named "All Hype and no QQ" people still fall into trap of comparisions of two totally different designed products that just share same universe and name instead focusing entirely on merits.

35 minutes ago, kempy said:

Words

Dude, easy on the ad hominem, and on the assumptions, and on the absolutes.

Comparisons with the old game are inevitable and legitimate.

The point is, as a general rule, players should be encouraged to interact. More interaction makes for a better multiplayer game.

This game looks like it will tend to be more interactive than the old L5R, and that is a good thing. And just like that we're back to hype.

No QQ boys. Go argue in the other 900 threads.

5 hours ago, Nickciufi said:

No QQ boys. Go argue in the other 900 threads.

*Checks thread count*

*911 threads*

Blimey! The game isn't even out yet and we got over 900 threads. Games getting pretty hype!!

Since the most recent posts here were about honor and decision making, I'm personally quite hype about Dishonor and the way it seems geared in this game to force people to make on the fly and calculated decisions about *everything* they do in the fear that I'm a couple of steps away from just ending their world. Mwahahahahaaaa.

19 hours ago, kempy said:

So, let's enter CCG expert area again.

?

?

What?

Anyway Action phase passing in CCG had completely different momentum. You could just make a fake a passing waiting to hit with impactful action, but you risked to hear pass from OP. AFAIR that was always a matter of skill and reading board game position.

Splitted attacking and defending in midgame was also just a moment when game freezed for some time becasue of many decisions and planning.

Could you explain this?

Military and Control. You could tweak most deck with Military and Control elements. That was freedom of choice supported by cardpool.

Anyway do you think that players that played passive, defending, solitaire kind of decks were forced to play them? Maybe that was just their choice? They liked them, this kind of gameplay? A fact you like fight and attacking doesn't mean that everyone around is also fan of such things.

?

1. I understand I am not a CCG expert, I played back in Emperor and I am going off of my impressions.

2. To clarify, when I played the CCG it felt like if you lost a province in military v military there was little hope of comeback. In the few matches I have played or watched in the LCG both players seem to be able to continue threatening their opponent rather than a single player having to switch to defense. Again that was more my impression.

3. Political characters didn't ever seem like they could break provinces and they tried to narrow their effect to control and honor/dishonor effects, my point here is I like how they make political feel more impactful in the LCG.

4. While I agree that phase passing was big, I am saying there are more small decisions and not just decisions about what conflict cards to play or which personalities ability to trigger first. I am not saying the CCG lacked this, but it was more which personality will I trigger or which card to play from hand. The LCG incorporates choosing a ring, gaining additional fate from that, honor bidding for draw, etc.

5. Numbers being "more balanced" was a bad way to phrase this. In my opinion numbers feel smaller and to me it's a personal preference. I didn't like having 5 v 5 personalities that were all between 4-8 strength and having huge swings of like 10 force. It felt like by the time I started playing that the force numbers had grown very large and I prefer when the numbers are in the new ranges of 1-4, but this is more a preference not a balancing I suppose.

6. In the CCG when I would play a military game, if I lost a province first, I tended to stay on the defensive because of how much an early swing that could be, it pushed me to play defensively and never retaliate for fear of being even further behind. I haven't played in a couple years, but I seem to recall there being some things that really favored attackers like new personalities were always there to defend and stuff. My friend played Unicorn quite a bit so I always felt on the ropes. I have no problem with Control, in fact I probably prefer it, we chose clans originally for story purposes and I greatly enjoyed running some control or dishonor scorpion decks.

7. In the CCG I remember that followers and weapons tended to be large investments and could sometimes be dead draws early on in the game when you needed your gold or if you built a deck around them, you never drew them and then personalities left play by being killed and poof no attachments. I remember really trying to make both Kensai decks and follower decks and getting punished quite a bit, it felt bad to play with.

Overall, these are my impressions of the old game and things that I believe have changed for the better in the new game, they are just opinions so take from that what you will, I am not trying to start debates on a hype thread.

11 hours ago, Daigotsu Steve said:

*Checks thread count*

*911 threads*

Blimey! The game isn't even out yet and we got over 900 threads. Games getting pretty hype!!

Since the most recent posts here were about honor and decision making, I'm personally quite hype about Dishonor and the way it seems geared in this game to force people to make on the fly and calculated decisions about *everything* they do in the fear that I'm a couple of steps away from just ending their world. Mwahahahahaaaa.

Oh yeah, I wrote a thread about this the other day, dishonor seems super cool, interested to see honor/dishonor as win conditions in the future as from the cards so far I am not sure that they have actually fully materialized.

5 minutes ago, wolfien8 said:

Oh yeah, I wrote a thread about this the other day, dishonor seems super cool, interested to see honor/dishonor as win conditions in the future as from the cards so far I am not sure that they have actually fully materialized.

Yeah I agree. I like the way they seem to be handling Dishonor from a mechanics and gameplay, but as for right now I don't think there is going to be enough to get that machine running. But we'll see. It certainly puts me in a good mood from a design perspective to say the least =p

I just pre-ordered my copy (and so did a friend) on CoolStuff yesterday. They are listing October as a release date!

11 minutes ago, Stone37 said:

I just pre-ordered my copy (and so did a friend) on CoolStuff yesterday. They are listing October as a release date!

Nice. I tried to order from my local store this past Monday (30% off pre-releases!), but they said they can't do it yet. I'm guessing the start of August, or after GenCon

On 7/26/2017 at 11:56 AM, Daigotsu Steve said:

Yeah I agree. I like the way they seem to be handling Dishonor from a mechanics and gameplay, but as for right now I don't think there is going to be enough to get that machine running. But we'll see. It certainly puts me in a good mood from a design perspective to say the least =p

For the record, I'm 100% Phoenix and only mostly interested in Unicorn.

...but since this game won't be a game of buying chase rares and other cards if you're not lucky in pulls, I'm very interested in the dishonor game and the Scorpion playing it. Dishonor is already shaping up to have teeth.

Well I initially checked this game out of nostalgia, as I have not played the oL5R for more than a decade. I am certaintly here to stay and everything they reveal only increases my hype for it.

Am I a weirdo for loving both Phoenix and Crane? Each of these two clans appeal to me so much more than all the others put together.

1 minute ago, blackheartz said:

Am I am weirdo for loving both Phoenix and Crane? Each of these two clans appeal to me so much more than all the others put together.

Not at all; they're the two classiest clans!

14 minutes ago, blackheartz said:

Well I initially checked this game out of nostalgia, as I have not played the oL5R for more than a decade. I am certaintly here to stay and everything they reveal only increases my hype for it.

Am I a weirdo for loving both Phoenix and Crane? Each of these two clans appeal to me so much more than all the others put together.

You're doing it wrong. You're supposed to go on and on about how, as an old-time player, the game was ever so much more enjoyable when you could spend tons of money on packs and still not get the cards you needed; and now that you can no longer gain an enlightenment victory half-way through the opponent's second turn, the game has lost its entire point and you may as well play Go Fish instead!

But no! Instead, you and everyone else come on to this thread all, "This game looks like it has a lot of interesting and fun mechanics!" and, "Designing a two-player game so that it actually requires the two players to interact is a good thing!"

That is not the proper way to be a curmudgeony, old player! You and your ilk make me sick!

...seriously, though, Phoenix look great and I'm really looking forward to trying them out. Crane has always been the clan I've related to the least (the whole "perfectly perfect perfectionists" thing is something I find a bit irritating), but their clan colors do include that really lovely blue, so I guess they can't be all bad...

1 hour ago, SHARKOSAURUS said:

For the record, I'm 100% Phoenix and only mostly interested in Unicorn.

...but since this game won't be a game of buying chase rares and other cards if you're not lucky in pulls, I'm very interested in the dishonor game and the Scorpion playing it. Dishonor is already shaping up to have teeth.

Yeah man, I'm very excited to be able to play around with everything. Try loads of matchups, really work out the kinks in the game. Get in on day 1, get everything, play around with everything, and integrate all the new cards as they trickle in. Sounds good to me.

And I'm especially looking forward to not having to shell a ton on rare singles to play dishonor cause spending a couple hundred on boxes just plain old isn't my jam. And neither is winding up with boxes of coasters. The future is looking very bright indeed for the L5R nerd!

35 minutes ago, Daigotsu Steve said:

Yeah man, I'm very excited to be able to play around with everything. Try loads of matchups, really work out the kinks in the game. Get in on day 1, get everything, play around with everything, and integrate all the new cards as they trickle in. Sounds good to me.

And I'm especially looking forward to not having to shell a ton on rare singles to play dishonor cause spending a couple hundred on boxes just plain old isn't my jam. And neither is winding up with boxes of coasters. The future is looking very bright indeed for the L5R nerd!

After LCG's happened I will never go back to CCG again. Rarity is part of the CCG sales mechanic, once you have the cards the game is the same. The only difference is "did you invest enough to play optimally" or "are you playing a scrub deck." The card pool is more trim and effective too since there aren't loads of worthless commons flooding boxes while you search for the 2 cards in there that matter...

5 minutes ago, shosuko said:

After LCG's happened I will never go back to CCG again. Rarity is part of the CCG sales mechanic, once you have the cards the game is the same. The only difference is "did you invest enough to play optimally" or "are you playing a scrub deck." The card pool is more trim and effective too since there aren't loads of worthless commons flooding boxes while you search for the 2 cards in there that matter...

Took the words right out of my mouth brother. The way that Ashes do it is an interesting method as well, cause the new characters and cards are released in the form of lean pre-con decks with everything 3-of. The game has dropped off a little lol, but I hear new stuff is on the horizon.

But yes, booster packs are dead to me.

7 minutes ago, shosuko said:

After LCG's happened I will never go back to CCG again. Rarity is part of the CCG sales mechanic, once you have the cards the game is the same. The only difference is "did you invest enough to play optimally" or "are you playing a scrub deck." The card pool is more trim and effective too since there aren't loads of worthless commons flooding boxes while you search for the 2 cards in there that matter...

Having evergreen cards also means that we won't need cards being reprinted every arc to stay legal, which should also keep the card count at a more reasonable level.

2 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Having evergreen cards also means that we won't need cards being reprinted every arc to stay legal, which should also keep the card count at a more reasonable level.

I hope they do a yu-go-oh ban style once a year, so we do not end up with a stale meta.

3 minutes ago, Spawnod said:

I hope they do a yu-go-oh ban style once a year, so we do not end up with a stale meta.

I'm not familiar with how Yu-gi-oh does it, but my understanding is that with FFG, you have the Core Set, which is legal forever. Then you have cycles of six packs, one pack each month. After so many cycles (six? seven?) the oldest cycle is no longer legal. There are also occasionally Deluxe sets, which are also legal forever.

So ultimately, you end up with the card pool being the Core and Deluxe cards, plus several cycles-worth of cards which are always changing.

15 minutes ago, Spawnod said:

I hope they do a yu-go-oh ban style once a year, so we do not end up with a stale meta.

Yugioh is not the model to follow... They do that horrible thing where they limit you to 1 copy of a card per deck. Most foolish thing ever. The decks turn into who gets lucky, or how deep you can tutor.

You should only ban very powerful cards that warp the game and create too much NPE compared to their value. FFG hopefully won't make many of these. I do not see a ban list as a way to shake up the meta rather than remove flawed cards.

I would like to see a split in legality like Magic as a way of shaking up the meta. They have Modern and Standard to allow you to play with an expanded card pool or a more limited "current" card pool. I think it would be awesome if FFG had their normal rotation to be like Modern, but then had a "2 most recent box + their complete expansions + current box and incomplete expansion set" format like Standard so we can see the changes in the game and meta when characters die or fall out, or clan tactics change. This format has a constantly changing meta, but the meta is more direct to which options you will face. The shorter format is great for players who are getting into the game because they can play more equally on that format with less investment and have less cards to learn while considering what they may face in a game. The longer format typically has many more options for "meta" because the card pool is expansive, but playing in this format requires you have much greater card knowledge and a larger collection. Its hard to know what a deck in an open format will bring so it is a different thrill, but strong meta decks take a LONG time to leave this format. Events in the more open format reward players who have built their collection.

Having events from both is best.

1 hour ago, shosuko said:

I would like to see a split in legality like Magic...

Having events from both is best.

I agree with both formats and the YGO way of things does have its down side (such as Konami banning popular cards/decks to sell new product). we will see how ffg will handle it. The fact we care about how the game will look like three years from now ,when the game has not even been fully revealed yet, is either super nerdom or a good sign.

On 28/7/2017 at 9:59 PM, JJ48 said:

I'm not familiar with how Yu-gi-oh does it, but my understanding is that with FFG, you have the Core Set, which is legal forever. Then you have cycles of six packs, one pack each month. After so many cycles (six? seven?) the oldest cycle is no longer legal. There are also occasionally Deluxe sets, which are also legal forever.

So ultimately, you end up with the card pool being the Core and Deluxe cards, plus several cycles-worth of cards which are always changing.

Noob in LCG but already passionate about L5R... What are the differences between Deluxe set and monthly packs (other than the legal question)?

In most card games, banning individual cards means the developers screwed up somewhere (either they made a card too powerful to begin with, or they didn't think about that card when designing future cards). It happens occasionally, but it shouldn't be the go-to, normal flow of things.

So I got my wife to play for the first time today.

She played Phoenix because she wanted the air benders.

I played Crab because I had not played them before.

The first turn she drops the Phoenix 4 glory bushi with two fate. And I realize that if I played way of the crab next she would never play the game again. So I did not play way of the crab. And thus began the grueling hour of well timed assassinations, glory gains, and giving Hida Kisada and a raging berserker pacifism.

In the end I saw her victory coming two turns away if I dragged it out so I honored out.

She crushed me and I have never felt so proud.

I will not be going easy on her when I play as Dragon in about a week. EDIT. Just thinking of going easy on her was a mistake.